Wireless networking question

Discussion in 'Home Networking' started by tinnews, Apr 16, 2008.

  1. tinnews

    tinnews Guest

    I have two ADSL connections, each with a router connected (physically
    at the moment, with CAT5) to the same subnet. I have one router as
    192.168.1.1 and the other is 192.168.1.254. I 'share' the ADSL simply
    by making one router the default gateway for one computer on my
    network and the other router is the default gateway for the other main
    user's computer. It all works OK.

    Can I link the two routers by wireless and achieve exactly the same
    topology and, at the same time, allow other PCs (and maybe other
    devices) to attach by wireless?

    My particular question/concern (or lack of knowledge) is whether the
    two routers and a number of other devices will be quite happy using
    the same channel and security setup. I can see no difference in
    principle from hardwiring them all into the same hub but wanted to
    check that it would actually work before wasting time actually moving
    things around to take advantage of the idea.
     
    tinnews, Apr 16, 2008
    #1
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  2. tinnews

    Happy Hunter Guest

    Hi

    What is it you are trying to achieve ?

    Do you want to move the routers to different locations in the house that you
    can't cable a connection to ?

    I *think* the answer to your question is "NO". On my Netgear, for a start,
    there's no settings for it being a wireless CLIENT as well as a Wireless
    server if you like. There's only settings for it being a wireless
    broadcaster/server/device/thing.

    All my Wireless Access Points have a wired connection back to the main hub
    which is a Netgear 16 port switch (if I remember correctly !).

    Why not use a "homeplug" (ethernet over power) to put some distance between
    your routers ?

    As an aside, having used wireless for my Livingroom computer for a year or
    so .. It's a much much better connection now I'm connecting via
    EthernetOverPower. Got a couple of those Zyxel homeplug devices.

    Cheers.
     
    Happy Hunter, Apr 17, 2008
    #2
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  3. tinnews

    tinnews Guest

    Yes, basically, house and garage actually. It's only an idea.
    Do ethernet networks have a concept of client and server, I thought
    everyone was created equal and talked at the same time.
     
    tinnews, Apr 17, 2008
    #3
  4. tinnews

    PeeGee Guest

    Depends on the "carrier" - with wireless the set-up is either "bridge"
    where two access points *only* talk to each other or access point and
    client(s). (AIUI ethernet-over-power devices are like "distributed" hubs
    or switches.)

    With wired connexions system are nominally equal. Switches allow
    "clients" to send and receive in full duplex mode (= at the same time)
    and contain store-and-forward buffers to avoid clashes; they also
    provide virtual paths that allow, for example, an 8 way switch to
    support 4 point-to-point links simultaneously. Hubs, thin ethernet and
    thick ethernet all connect clients together and a system *listens*
    before and during sending. If there is traffic before transmission
    starts, the system waits for it to clear before sending; if at the start
    of sending the data corrupts (due to another system also sending) all
    systems back off for a "randomised" time and the sequence starts again -
    the one with the shortest delay takes priority, unless another device
    that hasn't "backed-off" happens to get in. Once a system starts
    transmitting, all other systems should wait for cessation of traffic.

    --
    PeeGee

    The reply address is a spam trap. All mail is reported as spam.
    "Nothing should be able to load itself onto a computer without the
    knowledge or consent of the computer user. Software should also be able
    to be removed from a computer easily."
    Peter Cullen, Microsoft Chief Privacy Strategist (Computing 18 Aug 05)
     
    PeeGee, Apr 18, 2008
    #4
  5. tinnews

    tinnews Guest

    Well I guess if I can set up one of my routers as a client it should
    do what I want then, I'll have to look at the manuals and on-line help
    to see if I can do that.

    Yes, that's what I thought, "collision detection" and all that stuff.
     
    tinnews, Apr 18, 2008
    #5
  6. tinnews

    PeeGee Guest

    Sorry, didn't make that clear enough :-( Perhaps "access point with
    computers etc as clients" would have been better. The basic function of
    a router would suggest that no routers will act as a "client" - but
    then, the basic function of a mobile 'phone would suggest it would not
    take pictures :)

    --
    PeeGee

    The reply address is a spam trap. All mail is reported as spam.
    "Nothing should be able to load itself onto a computer without the
    knowledge or consent of the computer user. Software should also be able
    to be removed from a computer easily."
    Peter Cullen, Microsoft Chief Privacy Strategist (Computing 18 Aug 05)
     
    PeeGee, Apr 18, 2008
    #6
  7. tinnews

    Happy Hunter Guest

    Yes, and I didn't mean it in that sense. If you think about connecting a
    wireless client to a wireless network, then you have to configure certain
    information to allow the client to access the network, stuff about channels
    and encryption keys. There's no option certainly on my router to configure
    such items such that it could link to another wireless network. So in that
    sense, there's no client end on the router so that it can connect to a
    wireless network, just an option for it to broadcast (or server) a wireless
    network.

    Cheers.
     
    Happy Hunter, Apr 18, 2008
    #7
  8. tinnews

    LR Guest

    You didn't mention the make and models of your modem/routers but some
    are capable of WDS Http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_Distribution_System
    If they are capable of WDS then they may be able to communicate with
    each other. I say "may" because I have had the following problems:-
    1. Different manufacturer's eqpt will not work with each other.
    2. When they work with each other they don't work with encryption or
    they only work with WEP.
    3.Not really a problem but a fact of wireless. If one is set for WDS+AP
    it is effectively acting as a repeater and your data throughput will be
    halved.
     
    LR, Apr 18, 2008
    #8
  9. tinnews

    Happy Hunter Guest

    Why do you want to do that, is it so that you can connect from the garage to
    your network or from your garden ?

    Here's good-ish link about wireless bridging

    http://www.wi-fiplanet.com/tutorials/article.php/1563991

    And this would seem to be the up-to-date Linksys product that could do what
    you wanted ......

    http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Sate...nksys/Common/VisitorWrapper&lid=0367639789B06

    Read the manual for it though (downloadable from that link).

    Quote
    Access Point. The Mode is set to Access Point by default. This connects your
    wireless PCs to a wired network.

    In most cases, no change is necessary.

    AP (Access Point) Client. When set to AP Client mode, the AP Client is able
    to talk to one remote access point

    within its range. This feature only works with another Wireless-G Access
    Point (model number: WAP54G).

    This mode allows the AP Client to act as a client of a remote access point.
    The AP Client cannot communicate

    directly with any wireless clients. A separate network attached to the AP
    Client can then be wirelessly bridged to

    the remote access point.

    To use this mode, select AP Client and enter the LAN MAC address of the
    remote access point in the Remote

    Access Point's LAN MAC Address field. If you do not know the remote access
    point's MAC address, click the Site

    Survey button. Select the access point you want to use and click the Close
    button. If you do not see the access

    point you want, click the Refresh button to search for access points again.

    Wireless Repeater. When set to Wireless Repeater mode, the Wireless Repeater
    is able to talk to up a remote

    access point within its range and retransmit its signal. This feature only
    works with the Linksys Wireless-G

    Router (model number: WRT54G) or another Wireless-G Access Point (model
    number: WAP54G).

    END QUOTE from manual.


    Netgear WG602 can do it too .....

    http://kbserver.netgear.com/pdf/wg6....com/pdf/wg602v3_manual.pdf&answer_id=2050392

    Nice pretty pictures in the manual !!! Chapter 5.

    Doesn't mention "Repeater" as an option in the manual, but on my WG602 v2
    (note, above is v3), it does have "repeater" as an option to configure.

    Cheers.
     
    Happy Hunter, Apr 18, 2008
    #9
  10. tinnews

    tinnews Guest

    Yes, I realised what you meant, that routers in general wouldn't want
    to be wireless clients. That doesn't mean that they can't be switched
    to do some such thing if they are very configurable.
     
    tinnews, Apr 19, 2008
    #10
  11. tinnews

    tinnews Guest

    My new Draytek Vigor 2820n does have WDS, I'll have to look at the
    other router (2wire) to see if it does too. Thanks for the pointer.
     
    tinnews, Apr 19, 2008
    #11
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