Wireless link to neighbours

Discussion in 'Broadband' started by Mark Lewis, Oct 22, 2003.

  1. Mark Lewis

    Mark Lewis Guest

    Some of the houses in my village are still rated 'Red' (out-of-range)
    for ADSL even with Extended Reach, so I'm investigating what can be
    done with wireless.

    What is the range of a wireless router in a neighbourhood of detached
    modern houses (brick and breezeblock up to 40ft high)?

    Which is the best wireless router or base station for range?

    Is some sort of wireless product with a greater range available?
     
    Mark Lewis, Oct 22, 2003
    #1
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  2. Mark Lewis

    jsp21c Guest

    I've already mentioned D-Link earlier today in another question, but they're
    the site to check out again, they do wireless routers and also have
    directional & booster aerials for both indoor & outdoor use. I can't
    remember the range of the directional aerials, but think it is quite
    significant, i.e. several hundred meters
    www.d-link.com
     
    jsp21c, Oct 22, 2003
    #2
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  3. Mark Lewis

    Martin² Guest

    If you can position the AP and the receiving adapter (USB) near windows with
    clear line of sight in between,
    any regular kit should (barring interference) work for 70m and maybe even up
    to 100m.
    Draytek Vigor 2600We works great for me in above scenario.
    Otherwise you will have to test and probably try external (to AP point)
    antennas etc.,
    because of reflection and interference each situation is different. Moving
    the AP or receiver just half an inch can make great difference.
    Regards,
    Martin
     
    Martin², Oct 22, 2003
    #3
  4. Mark Lewis

    jsp21c Guest

    Check out http://www.dlink.co.uk/

    D-Link make routers, directional aerials and relay stations.

    I believe the directional aerials have a significant range. I read somewhere
    recently that the record for a private DSL network is 6 km using a
    directional aerial over open ground.
     
    jsp21c, Oct 22, 2003
    #4
  5. Mark Lewis

    Geoff Lane Guest

    Being quite new to Wireless I've found out quite quickly that it
    does **** not do what it says on the box ****

    The manufacturers are wildly optimistic with claimed ranges, when you
    query the range then mention is then made of cordless phones,
    microwaves, water tanks, insulated walls etc.

    In my 1930s brick built bungalow I lose a signal two rooms away
    although I have had a signal 60 feet away at the top pf my garden
    beyond ONE brick wall.

    I think it is best to stay with one manufacturer with all products
    though why this should be I don't know.

    External aerials, don't think they are quite so popular in UK as in
    the US as yet.

    Geoff Lane
     
    Geoff Lane, Oct 22, 2003
    #5
  6. That describes the performance of my Vigor 2600 We perfectly.
    I've done that. If you are right it would hardly be worth having
    otherwise.

    Malcolm
     
    Malcolm Knight, Oct 22, 2003
    #6
  7. Could you be a bit more specific ? - have you actually tried it in
    802.11(whatever) conditions, namely free space without
    interruption/obstruction and the right type of antenna. Use an directional
    antenna and its much better - most boxes have a small (crap) omni fitted.

    I think you'll find it does work, as stated, if the conditions are met.

    What I think you mean, is that the stated conditions for the performance
    were not highlighted clearly enough.

    My friends WiFi box (D-Link I think) easily does 3 miles in free space
    tests, as my Netgear does 150 feet through 2 or 3 walls. Its used a
    backbone for a rural wifi network, and really does more than it says on the
    box.

    I sense your frustration, however I suspect at least 50% of the issue is the
    lack of understanding of the test conditions which are of course optimised.
     
    Graham in Melton, Oct 22, 2003
    #7
  8. Mark Lewis

    Geoff Lane Guest

    Which one - the good signal at top of garden or the lost signal in my
    bedroom.

    I understand Vigor have a good reputation, I was thinking of their
    ADSL modem router.

    Geoff Lane
     
    Geoff Lane, Oct 22, 2003
    #8
  9. Mark Lewis

    Geoff Lane Guest

    No, not really, I am quite new to WiFi so bought my Netgear Access
    Point and PC card to be used for wireless access in my bungalow.

    The range of the Netgear products are quite acceptable, it is a
    handheld CF device I was mainly referring to.

    Its spec lists an open office environment and a closed office
    environment, it describes a closed office environment as 'brick walls
    and floors' and lists a range of up to 50 meters in a closed office
    environment.

    Now I know the magic words 'up to' but I was rather hoping for more
    than 30 feet.
    I'm a bit puzzled here, my Netgear Access Point has a detachable
    antenna, Netgear market antenna but they are not shown as suitable for
    my model Access Point.
    The dreaded 'small print' :)))))
    Are you based in the UK - if so what Netgear AP are you using and with
    what aerial?

    Thanks in advance,

    Geoff Lane
     
    Geoff Lane, Oct 23, 2003
    #9
  10. Mark Lewis

    Mark Lewis Guest

    So the idea is that you buy a standard wireless ADSL router such as
    the DrayTek 2600WE or Netgear DG824M, and replace the little antennas
    provided with this sort of stuff:

    http://www.dsl-warehouse.co.uk/products.asp?pm=1798

    You would presumably try to get a neighbour to agree to this by
    offering them free broadband off the router ie you would pay their
    subscription?

    Is anyone doing this? What router + antenna + receiver combo do you
    have, and what range are you getting?

    Why don't BT extend the range of ADSL via wireless by putting an
    antenna and router on an in-range telegraph pole powered from the
    street?
     
    Mark Lewis, Oct 23, 2003
    #10
  11. Is the idea about neighbours sharing broadband connections, and the
    costs, going to play hell with contention ratios?
     
    Gavin Gillespie, Oct 23, 2003
    #11
  12. The issue could therefore be the CF lack of antenna that is causing it,
    rather than the Base Station ....
    You should certainly get that - is your BS 11a or 11g ? As the signal gets
    worse the 'pipe' is automatically downgraded to keep the line going so even
    at its limit you should still get better than the 512k adsl capacity, so to
    speak.

    Have you got access to another wifi device that can access the signal in
    difficult places ? It sounds like the PDA reception isn't too good.
    I am in the UK, the BS is a MR314 (old one) and the aerial is the original
    one fitted.

    You certainly have to look at receiver issues - I have an Apple G$ powerbook
    with internal airport card, which cannot get a signal more than 30 feet away
    - the PB is notorious for its poor reception due to the titanium case
    covering the antenna. So I bought an Orinoco Gold Card which I slot in for
    longer distances - and superb reception it has too.
     
    Graham in Melton, Oct 23, 2003
    #12
  13. Mark Lewis

    Geoff Lane Guest

    Except that my Linksys USB 11b device is not too good either,
    marginally better than the CF card and this has aits own antenna.
    The Access Point is 11g the CF card is 11b
    Yes, I would have thought so, what I did fing initially was that if my
    Access Point was set to 'auto' I could lose 30 to 40pc of PINGS to my
    CF card but if I set the Access Point to 11b I would get 100pc of
    PINGS.
    To the best of my knwoledge the CD card is a Dell badged Orinoco,
    there are issues with this card as on the Dell forum there are quite a
    few posters unhappy with this card.

    What has disappointed me a bit is that the Linksys card is not much
    better, linksys have said return the device as I should get more.

    Geoff Lane
     
    Geoff Lane, Oct 23, 2003
    #13
  14. Mark Lewis

    Sean Ayling Guest

    I've tread this thread with interest because I have a wired network and was
    thinking of adding a WAP to see if it will reach my sister-in-law's house
    (about 200m away but not in line of sight).

    I have hitherto been under the impression that this would require two
    external antennae high up enough for them to "see" each other. Is this not
    the case?

    Sean
     
    Sean Ayling, Oct 23, 2003
    #14
  15. For that range you will need directional antenna's and a line of sight -
    which normally mean "up high".

    Try www.hotwireless.com for cheap wifi compatible directional antenna's.

    To get her a good signal and bandwidth, opt for 11g systems if you can, due
    to longer range and better bandwidth vs distance drop off.
     
    Graham in Melton, Oct 23, 2003
    #15
  16. Mark Lewis

    Martin² Guest

    "Graham in Melton" > Try www.hotwireless.com for cheap wifi compatible
    directional antenna's.Link doesn't work
    There isn't clear agreement on this, some reports say 11g has less range
    because it uses different modulation.
    Even if the bandwidth drops of to 1mbs it's still twice as fast as usual
    512kbs ADSL connection, so unless you want to swap large files with your
    sister, there is no spending more money to get 11g.
    Regards,
    Martin
     
    Martin², Oct 24, 2003
    #16
  17. Mark Lewis

    Martin² Guest

    "Mark Lewis" >
    See my post at the top of this thread. Keep clear of Netgear.
    Regards,
    Martin
     
    Martin², Oct 24, 2003
    #17
  18. Mark Lewis

    Martin² Guest

    "Gavin Gillespie"
    Not quite, the ADSL connection speed is limited at the exchange (usually to
    512kbs), so if you put X computers on your LAN they share YOUR bandwidth,
    but don't DIRECTLY affect anyone else at the time.

    But of course your X computers are likely to use ADSL more of the time and
    if lot of people on your exchange would do the same then yes, you will get
    higher contention.
    Regards,
    Martin
     
    Martin², Oct 24, 2003
    #18
  19. I don't know what "reports" you've been reading, but if you read the actual
    11g international standard, it certainly is for longer ranges than 11a .
     
    Graham in Melton, Oct 24, 2003
    #19
  20. Mark Lewis

    Paul Webster Guest

    Paul Webster, Oct 26, 2003
    #20
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