WiFi under Linux - rant no 7

Discussion in 'Linux Networking' started by Timothy Murphy, Mar 14, 2006.

  1. Unruh wrote:

    I was talking about connecting to my LAN,
    as I think was obvious from the context.

    I don't think many people disable ping on their LAN.
     
    Timothy Murphy, Mar 20, 2006
    #41
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  2. I didn't ever say "Linux does not work" or anything like it.
    I said, and believe, that Linux could be more _helpful_
    particularly when it comes to WiFi.
    Well, NetworkManager would be the perfect solution
    if it worked with my Orinoco Classic PCMCIA card.
    Unfortunately it doesn't (or at least didn't when I last tried).

    Actually, I've some doubts about NetworkManager,
    because it re-writes various config files (eg /etc/resolv.conf)
    without telling you, which I think is a mistake.
    In my case, I had to spend quite a lot of time
    undoing the changes it had made.

    system-config-network under Fedora is not well-designed,
    as is widely agreed, I think -
    which is precisely why NetworkManager has been introduced.

    I didn't find any WiFi wizard under Slax,
    which was the distro I was talking about originally.

    I had problems with WiFi - soluble, but time-consuming -
    under SuSE and debian, but I don't recall the details,
    and am no longer running these systems.

    I haven't seen any Linux distro with a WiFi wizard
    as easy to use as Windows (XP or 2000).

    That doesn't mean I have fallen in love with Bill Gates,
    or think Linux is doomed.
    It means exactly what it says, no more and no less.
     
    Timothy Murphy, Mar 20, 2006
    #42
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  3. Timothy Murphy

    Keith Keller Guest

    <channel user="michael">

    [x] send patch

    </channel>

    --keith
     
    Keith Keller, Mar 20, 2006
    #43
  4. Your postings are usually quite helpful,
    but you have really got into a stupid mode in this case.

    First of all, as I have said three or four times,
    I have WiFi working perfectly,
    BUT IT WAS MORE DIFFICULT TO SET UP THAN IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN.
    So it would be entirely pointless to pay anyone "to do the job".

    Secondly, this sort of gut reaction that anyone who suggests
    that Linux might be improved in some way
    is an enemy of the state
    is bizarre and distressing.

    I've actually been running Linux since it first came out
    (and ran Minix before that),
    and I would like to see Linux get the "market share" it deserves
    because of its quality.
     
    Timothy Murphy, Mar 20, 2006
    #44
  5. Timothy Murphy

    Unruh Guest

    "LInux" is a kernel. You are talking about distributions, not about
    "Linux".
    No idea what Network Manager is
    Of course it does. That is how all "helper applications" work. They do
    things for you. "I want "Linux" to do things for me but I dont want it to
    do anything". Do you think the wondows one does not do things for you--
    change config files, etc? Of course there you do nothave the ability to do
    things for yourself, so I guess you do not complain.
    Again noexperience. If you want handholding, use the Mandriva drakroam.
    Very Windowish setup. But yes it does "set things up" for you.


     
    Unruh, Mar 20, 2006
    #45
  6. Your point of view.
    Not to pay the job, but to write some wizard that works for you
    as easy as the doze one.
    No anyone is welcome to do so, grab the source an fire up vim,
    none will stop you, it's likely your changes will be incorporated
    if they are that great. In addition documents/etc will show your
    name for the glory of it.
    Ah, but does this rant help on the issue?
     
    Michael Heiming, Mar 20, 2006
    #46
  7. Unruh wrote:

    I'm surprised you are arguing in this dishonest way,
    by splitting my sentences.
    I expect better from you.
    [I think you are the author of the very helpful ppp tutorial
    I used several years ago.]
    As was perfectly clear, my complaint was that NetworkManager
    changed config files _without telling me_.
     
    Timothy Murphy, Mar 21, 2006
    #47
  8. Timothy Murphy

    Keith Keller Guest

    <channel user="michael">

    [x] send patch
    [x] submit bug report

    </channel>

    --keith
     
    Keith Keller, Mar 21, 2006
    #48
  9. Timothy Murphy

    Unruh Guest

    I am NOT splitting your sentences. I am trying to reply as close to the
    original as I can. In Windows you have no choice. It does everything for
    you. You cannot do it yourself. So you expect more out of Linux than you do
    out of windows.

    I would agree with you that I would like more indication as to at least
    what file is being changed. Under Mandrake, IF you run the log viewer while
    setting up the wifi it does show which file is being replaced (eg
    /etc/sysconfig/network-script/ifcfg-eth1)
    It does not tell you what is being put in there.
    And THAT was what I was replying to. For most people knowing which file is
    changed is NOT useful information. They could not do anythng with it and it
    would simply clutter up their screen and hide important information. IF you
    want helper applications, then you have to also accept that they are going
    to behave in exactly that way-- change things without telling you. IF you
    want to do them your self, then Linux allows you to.



    Notice that I left the sentence there so that any reader could decide if I
    was responding out of context or not.


    Yes, so have I had to do that. I do not like helper applications. But then
    I am weird in other ways as well.
     
    Unruh, Mar 21, 2006
    #49
  10. You keep saying this.

    A patch would not be appropriate in this case,
    since the program is presumably behaving as the author intended.

    In any case, as I mentioned (several times)
    I was in contact with Dan Williams, the author of NetworkManager.
     
    Timothy Murphy, Mar 21, 2006
    #50
  11. Timothy Murphy

    Unruh Guest

    In Linux, patches are NOT just for bugs. They are for enhancements as well.
    That is how open source works.
    You think the program would be better if it did XXX. You write a patch for
    the program which allows it to do XXX. You submit the patch or you
    distribute the program with the patch yourself.



    And what came out of those discussions?
     
    Unruh, Mar 21, 2006
    #51
  12. Unruh wrote:

    In brief, he accepted that NetworkManager
    did not meet my needs at the moment,
    but hoped it would do in the future.

    I wish NetworkManager the very best,
    but am slightly doubtful if one program like that
    can deal with all the cards in play.
    I suspect they are being too ambitious.
    I hope I'm wrong;
    they are certainly working very diligently.
     
    Timothy Murphy, Mar 21, 2006
    #52
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