Superslow broadband

Discussion in 'Broadband' started by Graham J, Apr 22, 2015.

  1. Graham J

    Graham J Guest

    Customer just upgraded to FTTC in a rural location: now has 12 Mbits/sec
    down 1.1Mbits/sec up - this compares with 6 Mbits/sec down and
    380Kbits/sec up when they had ADSL. I know why - their "green cabinet"
    is nearly 3km distant.

    Britain is still a third world country when it comes to proper broadband
    speeds!!
     
    Graham J, Apr 22, 2015
    #1
    1. Advertisements

  2. Graham J

    David Guest

    Superfast broadband, 12Mb would have thought in rural location that
    might just meet the description providers use.
    Think here in a very built up area 20Mb is called this silly description
    Superfast Broadband.
    Ofcom really needs to spell out BB speed descriptions.
    Regards
    David
     
    David, Apr 22, 2015
    #2
    1. Advertisements

  3. Graham J

    NY Guest

    The worry thing thing is that the upstream speed is still so much lower than
    the downstream speed: normally with VDSL you get fairly similar up and down
    speeds - in fast some people order it more for the dramatic increase in
    upload speed (useful for sending large emails, uploading to ftp sites or
    backing up to the cloud) than for the increase in download speed.

    Actually, 6 / 0.38 is pretty good for over 3 km from the exchange (assuming
    that the exchange is at least as far away as the fibre cabinet). It's about
    what we get and we're about 1.5 km away. Fortunately we're only about 300 m
    from a cabinet if we decide that fibre is cost-effective for us.
     
    NY, Apr 22, 2015
    #3
  4. Graham J

    Martin Brown Guest

    How much extra are they paying for doubling their sync rate?

    I thought they normally didn't bother selling people FTTC at ranges
    beyond 1500m especially on dodgy rural wiring.
    Most rural users would kill for a 6Mbps speed most don't even get 2Mbps
    (which is the Ofcom exceedingly low minimum service provision)
     
    Martin Brown, Apr 22, 2015
    #4
  5. Graham J

    NY Guest

    One of my clients gets about 0.7 Mbps down and 0.2 Mps up. Unfortunately
    their router didn't give any stats but I bet the signal attenuation was
    horrendous.

    They live on a dead-end rural road with a few widely-spaced houses along
    it - too far apart for BT to install a fibre cabinet because wherever they
    put it, most of the houses would be too far from it (that's what BT have
    told the client). BT keep coming out to try to improve the speed for my
    client or her neighbours, but really they need to lay brand new cables that
    aren't trailing in ditches between the poles (my client has had to fish the
    fallen cable out of ditches several times so she can get the tractor into
    certain fields. This is not in the middle of nowhere: there are two
    fair-sized market towns only a few miles one way or the other from her. BT
    admit that it is well below the minimum standard that they regard as
    acceptable but can't come up with a solution - except recommending satellite
    broadband instead, with the long latency that this causes.

    Downloading a printer driver was a painful process over a 0.7 Mbps
    connection :-( I warned her that when Windows wanted to download updates,
    that would take a loooong time.
     
    NY, Apr 22, 2015
    #5
  6. Graham J

    Martin Brown Guest

    It is worth carrying a spare router around that offers statistics and is
    compatible with Routerstats that way you can get a picture of what is
    going on. BT modems seemed designed to keep customers in the dark.

    A neighbouring village has aluminium with small sections of copper and
    some sync as low as 256k. They would be better off with bonded ISDN.
    Superfast North Yorkshire seems to be doing OK. It is worth surveying
    for 3G data services as an alternative (even if the data charges sting).
    My 3G connection at home is faster than my wired one!

    A decent directional external aerial and I reckon I could get 20Mbps.
     
    Martin Brown, Apr 22, 2015
    #6
  7. Graham J

    Graham J Guest


    So far as I know, VDSL down/up speeds are NOT fairly similar - I have
    seen 70Mbits/sect down and 10 Mbits/sec up. The design is inherently
    asymmetric - but jut not quite as markedly so as ADSL.
     
    Graham J, Apr 22, 2015
    #7
  8. Graham J

    Graham J Guest

    My customer uses Zen, so the cost has increased in line with Zen's
    published prices.

    This is a service subsidised by NCC (Norfolk County Council) as part of:

    http://www.betterbroadbandnorfolk.co.uk/

    .... but all that this appears to have achieved is to persuade BT to
    install VDSL in areas where they would not normally have chosen to do so
    at their own commercial risk. It certainly hasn't persuaded BT to
    improve their infrastracture - they continue to use existing green
    distribution cabinets which were sited for the convenience of telephone
    cable connectivity.

    I personally get about 2Mbits/sec and the nearest green cabinet is 3km
    distant where our side road joins the main road to the village where the
    exchange is located. Graphs I've seen suggest I might get 10 Mbist/sec
    VDSL - at some indefinite time in the future when NCC can afford it.
    Ironically there is a large business in our village which has had IDSN
    30 delivered over fibre since well before the days of ADSL, and there's
    plenty of dark fibre in that bundle !!!!
     
    Graham J, Apr 22, 2015
    #8
  9. Graham J

    7 Guest


    Thats because Bhtee broadband engineers blow job their fibers down
    the tubes and are not trained to suck properly.

    Improper blow jobs and bad sucking leads to slow Bhtee fiber links.

    Blame Bhtee management and offconn in cahoots with revoluting doors
    that lets Bhtee management out one door and into offcon the other.

    In a lot of countries 100mbit bidirectional links cost about $30 these days
    and costs continue to fall.

    The stuuuupid fsckies in office in offcon and Bhtee are unaware
    4 Gigabyte/second optical transcievers cost about $15 these
    days (retail price!!!).

    Anyone in UK that ever had an excuse for being so stuck up the
    assp of some one else so as to conspire to cause UK broad band to be
    slower than pigeon mail should be rounded up, put in a field,
    and carpet bombed with real carpets made from environmentally
    responsibly grown organic jute.
     
    7, Apr 22, 2015
    #9
  10. Graham J

    Andy Burns Guest

    Not IME. The products are sold as either 40/10 or 80/20, and the number
    of frequency bins are divided between up and down

    Up: 7-32 871-1205 1972-2782
    Down: 33-859 1216-1961 2793-3959

    so 25+334+810 = 1169 bins for up and 826+745+802 = 2373 bins for down,
    so about 50% more bins for downloads, also the lower frequency bins will
    tend to allow more bits per bin than the higher ones, so that tends to
    tip the balance to higher downloads.
     
    Andy Burns, Apr 22, 2015
    #10
  11. Graham J

    NY Guest

    Sounds plausible. I must admit I've based my observations on speeds reported
    by speedtest.net rather than on sync speeds.
     
    NY, Apr 22, 2015
    #11
  12. Graham J

    NY Guest

    And this was a BT router...

    Normally I carry around my spare Netgear router which may or may not work
    with routerstats but I know exactly which menu shows the stats. Sadly I'd
    tidied out my bag of bits and forgotten to put my router's PSU back in the
    bag :-( So my figures on that occasion had to be from speedtest.net and not
    sync/atten/margin figures.
     
    NY, Apr 22, 2015
    #12
  13. Graham J

    Mark Carver Guest

    Perhaps, but given a choice of my 33 Mb/s on a suburban estate, and
    living in the peace and tranquillity of a rural location, cutting
    my speed down to a third would seem a reasonable trade off.

    Is 12 Mb/s enough for your customer's needs, and if not why not ?
     
    Mark Carver, Apr 23, 2015
    #13
  14. Graham J

    Graham J Guest


    To misquote: "640k should be enough for anyone" see:
    http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Talk:Bill_Gates

    The point being that there are opportunities offered by faster speeds
    and that these faster speeds should be available to everybody.

    However, in the case of my customer: despite the rural location this is
    actually an international hi-tech business. It employs a good number of
    people so just emails and web browsing tends to saturate the available
    broadband capacity. One can conceive of many things that could be done
    with 80Mbits/sec broadband which might be directly useful to such a
    business.

    Its neighbour is a pig farm and the smell isn't attractive - so much for
    the "peace and tranquillity of a rural location"!
     
    Graham J, Apr 23, 2015
    #14
  15. Graham J

    Mark Carver Guest

    Perhaps rather than clogging up narrow country roads with all the staff
    transporting themselves to and from work, they should relocate to an
    industrial estate ;-)

    Sorry, but I do wonder sometimes whether some companies properly think
    through their ideal location.
     
    Mark Carver, Apr 23, 2015
    #15
  16. Graham J

    David Guest


    Strange isn't it being hi-tec they didn't find out about communications
    before setting up there.
    If I were moving house two things high on location choice would is fibre
    internet available and Freeview HD TV reception from a main transmitter
    and not a limited service from a relay.
    Regards
    David
     
    David, Apr 23, 2015
    #16
  17. Graham J

    Invalid Guest


    To misquote: "640k should be enough for anyone" see:
    http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Talk:Bill_Gates

    The point being that there are opportunities offered by faster speeds
    and that these faster speeds should be available to everybody.

    However, in the case of my customer: despite the rural location this is
    actually an international hi-tech business. It employs a good number
    of people so just emails and web browsing tends to saturate the
    available broadband capacity. One can conceive of many things that
    could be done with 80Mbits/sec broadband which might be directly useful
    to such a business.

    Its neighbour is a pig farm and the smell isn't attractive - so much
    for the "peace and tranquillity of a rural location"!
    [/QUOTE]

    If I were their customer, I would personally be wondering why a "...an
    international hi-tech business..." employing "...a good number of
    people..." was basing its operations on what sounds like a single
    consumer grade broadband link which will have no SLA or guaranteed
    repair times.

    How much are those employees paid, how much of their time is being
    "wasted" by the slow link? How much is that time costing the firm? What
    productivity improvements would they get from higher speeds? What are
    the risk costs of the link failing for a few hours (not uncommon in a
    rural consumer grade service). What's the payback on a decent commercial
    grade link?

    This is not a question of "...third world Britain..." from a
    communications perspective, but third world British management decision
    making. Even less acceptable than usual if it's management in an
    "international hi-tech business".
     
    Invalid, Apr 23, 2015
    #17
  18. Or 40/2.
     
    Plusnet Support Team, Apr 23, 2015
    #18
  19. Graham J

    Graham J Guest


    It's a long history. The village does have an industrial estate, which
    is where this business is sited. The business was there long before the
    days of the internet or broadband.

    Currently the number of staff is about a dozen. A previous business on
    the same site probably employed nearer 100. I don't think the local
    residents noticed the staff commuter traffic; they probably did notice
    delivery lorries, but compared with the disruption caused by
    agricultural tractors this was fairly insignificant. Being hi-tech most
    deliveries are small high-value items.

    FTTP is under active consideration. There is dark fibre already on site
    (courtesy of the previous owner of the business) but nobody will give a
    competitive quote for setting up a new internet connection using this
    fibre - they all want to treat it as a new installation.
     
    Graham J, Apr 23, 2015
    #19
  20. Graham J

    rbel Guest

    I agree.

    I am 1400 metres from the cabinet and the best download speed I have
    had in recent months is 15.4Mbps. My upload speed has not been above
    0.55 since the change to FTTC during August 2013 - it is currently
    around the 0.4 mark.
     
    rbel, Apr 23, 2015
    #20
    1. Advertisements

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.