SBC/Yahoo DSL down after Win98se upgrade.

Discussion in 'Windows Networking' started by dylan, Oct 12, 2005.

  1. dylan

    dylan Guest

    I'm such a rusty fool. I upgraded a friend's PC
    from Win98 to Win98SE using the upgrade CD that
    came with the tower (it's a late-'90s Compaq) and
    since then, the computer hasn't been able to find
    the modem.

    With my own network, I've got screenshots and
    printouts of all my settings in the event that I
    need to reinstall, but I forgot to do that before
    this upgrade, and I have no idea what he might
    have had on there. The only connection in Dial-Up
    Networking was for WAN Miniport (atw) 1, and that
    gave us an Error #752.

    As of today, we uninstalled and re-installed the
    Dial-Up Adapter, Dial-Up Networking (he's
    currently running 1.3), the Linksys NIC, and the
    Enternet 300 software, which reinstalled the PPPoE
    adapter.

    My question is, do I need to tell him to reinstall
    the IPX/SPX and NetBEUI protocols and VPN? Those
    are on my set-up, but not his. Also, he has no
    NDISWAN protocols in Network>Configuration.

    I'm not familiar with Enternet 300, but it's all
    he's got right now until he can get back online.

    The Enternet 300 profile wizard can't locate a
    server, it doesn't look like the PPPoE adapter is
    disabled in System Info and the modem is working,
    because his wife's mac can connect using their
    router.

    (Which is another thing: I'm not familiar with
    routers and have no idea if this one needs to be
    reinstalled. I was told there's no software for
    it.)

    Any help or ideas would be appreciated, and if I'm
    missing something from Control
    Panel>Network>Configuration, please let me know.

    dylan
     
    dylan, Oct 12, 2005
    #1
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  2. 1. DSL has nothing to do with Dial-Up Networking. You can uninstall DUN
    completely and it will not affect your DSL situation.

    2. No, you do not need anything besides plain old TCP/IP on your NIC to use
    the DSL Modem.

    3. You do not need *any* third-party software except the basic NIC drivers.

    4. If the wife's machine can connect via the router, then the router is set
    up properly and all you should need to do is make the NIC work. If nobody
    can get through the router to the modem, then that would indicate other
    problems. For now, forget about that.

    What I recommend is to go into Network applet in Control Panel, and delete
    everything that is there. Then go to Add/Remove Programs, Windows Setup tab,
    Communications section, click Details, and uncheck everything. OK your way
    out to Add/Remove Programs and uninstall any NIC or SBC-related software. DO
    NOT restart whenever prompted.

    Next, you'll want to restart in Safe Mode. To make sure you go directly to
    Safe Mode, because restarting in Normal Mode may automatically reinstall
    some things, I recommend first running MSCONFIG from the Start\Run box.
    Click on Advanced button at lower right, then put a check into the "Enable
    Startup Menu" box. Click OK, restart when prompted. At the Startup Menu,
    choose Safe Mode.

    In Safe Mode, right-click My Computer and choose Properties (or go to
    Control Panel, System applet.) Remove all Network Adapters. Also take stock
    of what's listed there, looking for devices that are no longer part of that
    system (old printers, etc.) and for duplicated entries. Some duplications
    are normal, particularly in the System and USB sections, but otherwise, the
    rule is one entry per device. Duplicate entries are common and can cause
    Windows much confusion. You won't see these duplicates in Normal mode
    because it only shows what's loaded, whereas Safe Mode Device Manager shows
    all of the device installations that exist in the Registry, even if they're
    obsolete or otherwise useless. Make a list of duplicated items, and any
    other questions you have about what you see there, post the list back here
    for advice later. The typical response to duplicated items is to delete them
    ALL (we don't know which is the most recent or the most correctly
    configured.) But there can arise issues of "parent/child" relationships that
    might suggest that removing other devices is also necessary in order to make
    sure things are configured correctly when the devices are reinstalled.

    Restart and, with luck, the NIC will be automatically reinstalled properly.
    The NIC installation should provide the necessary support for the DSL
    connection. If the people want to see each others' computers, that requires
    a bit more configuration. But the basic NIC installation should provide
    everything necessary to get online. In the Network applet, you should see
    Client for Microsoft Networks, the NIC itself as an Adapter, and TCP/IP.

    If that doesn't work, we'll need to dig deeper. Also, SBC's tech support may
    very well be able to lead you through procedures. Again, UNINSTALL all the
    support software that relates to these devices, including the SBC software.
    Believe me, none of it is necessary to make this work. In most cases, that
    stuff just causes more problems. The only thin you need are the NIC drivers
    themselves, and Windows should already know where those are. (If the phone
    modem isn't going to be used for anything else, like faxing, I'd disable it
    in Device Manager as well. Just to free up resources and prevent confusion.)
     
    Gary S. Terhune, Oct 12, 2005
    #2
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  3. dylan

    dylan Guest

    Thanks, I'm going to try this, but before I do, is
    there anything I should tell him to backup, before
    he might lose messenger settings or mail? I'm not
    familiar with SBC/Yahoo, and I don't want to do
    more damage than I've already done.

    dylan
     
    dylan, Oct 12, 2005
    #3
  4. I don't know what he's using for email, so I can't say if that would get
    messed up if you uninstall the SBC/Yahoo applications. But it isn't typical
    for data files to be deleted when programs are uninstalled. It's rather
    expected that uninstall/reinstall operations may need to be performed in
    order to repair things. Doesn't make sense to delete data stores during
    those operations. You can ignore Yahoo! Messenger and leave it in place.
    That's a separate app.

    Then again, a full backup at this juncture would be a very good idea. If you
    need to figure out where the email stores are, you can always run the email
    app, download messages, send one or two, anything to update the databases,
    then use Find to locate files that have changed in the last day. Sort by
    Date and the most recent ones, the ones that are likely to be the email
    stores, will show up at one end or the other of that list of files.

    I'm interested, however, in what application they use for email.
     
    Gary S. Terhune, Oct 12, 2005
    #4
  5. dylan

    dylan Guest

    Okay, we did all of that to the letter, and still
    he's getting "Page cannot be displayed" messages
    in IE6, Netscape and Mozilla Firefox. I had him
    run ipconfig, and it showed that his IP was
    192.168.1.3 and that the default gateway was
    192.168.1.1. I had him ping the router, and that
    responded, but there was no response from
    www.yahoo.com or www.google.com.

    He's tracing the wires to his router now, and he
    said he might give SBC a call if we can't figure
    this out soon.

    dylan
     
    dylan, Oct 13, 2005
    #5
  6. dylan

    dylan Guest

    I found out that they both use Yahoo's web mail,
    so that saved having to back up any mail settings,
    and he doesn't use Yahoo Messenger, so we
    uninstalled that as well.

    dylan
     
    dylan, Oct 13, 2005
    #6
  7. Oh, there's a router involved... I didn't realize that. What make/model? The
    router needs to be set up. Try this test -- Attach the DSL modem directly to
    the computer. Give it several minutes, just to make sure that the computer
    manages to obtain its new IP address. Then see if you can't get online.

    Setting up routers manually is easy for some people. I find it simpler to
    just use whatever app is provided by the router manufacturer to configure
    the router. Again, what make/model router? Typically, you are instructed by
    the setup program to first attach the computer directly to the DSL modem and
    making sure you can get to the internet. The program then reads all the
    needed data from the computer and the modem, and then has you change the
    wiring to connect the modem to the router and then the router to the
    computer. It then proceeds to set up the router and connect the machine.
    Routers vary, with some needing to be set up every time you lose power to
    the modem or the router, or the DSL is dynamic IP and gets changed. Others
    are better in this regard.
     
    Gary S. Terhune, Oct 13, 2005
    #7
  8. dylan

    dylan Guest

    I'm not sure that the router is involved, as his
    wife's mac can connect via the router and this
    problem only started after we upgraded from Win98
    to Win98SE. You had said earlier that because she
    could connect, it meant the router was set up
    properly. She can get through, and they don't
    want to disconnect her computer from the router,
    because both computers were connected to the
    router when the router was first installed.

    I believe it's a Belkin router, and that it's
    configured on her mac. The router software was
    never run on this PC before now and the computer
    always just worked.

    I also had him ping google.com and he received an
    "Unknown Host" error, but when I had him ping
    216.239.37.99, he received the usual four replies
    with no loss.

    dylan
     
    dylan, Oct 13, 2005
    #8
  9. Sorry, I'm getting blitzy today. I *thought* there was another machine
    involved but in my re-reading, I missed that.

    Perhaps it's time someone else took over, <sigh>. I'll think on it while I
    finish some other stuff, but I don't have high hopes for my brain at this
    juncture. Sorry.

    I think it would be a good idea for the guy to call SBS. I've called them
    before on such issues, and they walked me through certain steps, and even
    connected me to LinkSys (my router manufacturer) when it was determined that
    the issue was router setup. But he might want to try the router setup from
    his machine, first, and see if that gets him connected. If so, then find out
    whether his wife can also connect.
     
    Gary S. Terhune, Oct 13, 2005
    #9
  10. dylan

    James Egan Guest

    Then it's clearly a dns problem. This information is usually passed on
    to the pc along with it's ip address as part of the dhcp process. You
    will need to rebuild the winsock as follows

    1. Un-install Dial-Up Networking. Don't reboot.
    2. Delete registry key HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\Winsock2
    3. Re-install Dial-Up Networking. Reboot.


    Jim.
     
    James Egan, Oct 13, 2005
    #10
  11. This is not a DUN issue. DUN is not in any way involved in DSL connections.
     
    Gary S. Terhune, Oct 13, 2005
    #11
  12. dylan

    James Egan Guest

    I know it's not a DUN issue. It's a DNS issue which is a sign of a
    damaged winsock. That's how to rebuild the winsock in win9x.

    That's incorrect but a different matter. DSL connections quite often
    use dial up networking. Simply substituting a dsl modem for an
    analogue one.


    Jim.
     
    James Egan, Oct 13, 2005
    #12
  13. Sorry, I was at the blitzy end of a blitzy day. You're right, of course, but
    there are also other issues that could be involved, and this page includes
    not only your WINSOCK repair but also other suggestions pertinent to this
    issue.
    http://www.dslreports.com/faq/1453
     
    Gary S. Terhune, Oct 13, 2005
    #13
  14. dylan

    dylan Guest

    I've made notes on all the things I print to check
    Winsock first in the future--I posted the whole
    story in my previous message in the thread, but
    the date on Winsock.dll caused a week worth of
    hair pulling. It's all running smooth now, so I
    guess my friend'll still talk to me. :)

    dylan
     
    dylan, Oct 14, 2005
    #14
  15. dylan

    dylan Guest

    Thanks, I'm going to keep this for future
    reference.

    dylan
     
    dylan, Oct 14, 2005
    #15
  16. dylan

    dylan Guest

    It's okay, after a week of this, we were both
    pretty blitzy, too. :)

    Turned out it was a damaged Winsock.dll and all
    the uninstalling and re-installing didn't fix it,
    because any time we reinstalled Winsock, Windows
    would tell us the file being replaced was newer,
    so we'd keep it. Eventually we got to renaming
    the Winsock files and saw the date on the DLL was
    10/7/05--the day we did the upgrade.

    Thanks for all your help, his network
    configuration is much cleaner now, had we gone
    straight to Winsock, we wouldn't have gotten that
    done.

    dylan
     
    dylan, Oct 14, 2005
    #16
  17. Whew!

    --
    Gary S. Terhune
    MS MVP Shell/User

     
    Gary S. Terhune, Oct 14, 2005
    #17
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