Preparing for Transfer to Sky Fibre from copper.

Discussion in 'Broadband' started by David, Jan 31, 2014.

  1. David

    David Guest

    Soon I will be getting transferred from my Be copper BB to Sky Fibre BB, I
    will receive a Sky hub in advance for a self install.
    Someone as told me this is a bad practice as BT OR should do it so that I do
    not need to use the separate VSDL filters that come with the Sky Hub.
    At present I do not use any separate filters as I fitted a filter to the
    bottom half of the master socket think it called NTES socket.
    Will this master socket filter be OK for Fibre or is VDSL filter different
    please?

    Regards
    David
     
    David, Jan 31, 2014
    #1
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  2. David

    kraftéé Guest

    The chances are that the filter you have fitted is not compatible with the
    VDSL service and you had to have a visit to change the filtering and check
    your internal wiring (price is included in the setup fee paid to SKY).

    You will require some type of engineering contact anyway, how do you expect
    to get the service without any work being carried out on your line?
     
    kraftéé, Jan 31, 2014
    #2
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  3. David

    Jono Guest

    kraftéé laid this down on his screen :
    Self install at the customer end is being trialled in some parts.

    No need for a visit to the house for regular ADSL; why should it be
    necessary for VDSL?
     
    Jono, Jan 31, 2014
    #3
  4. Not any more with the 'wires only' option. Here are the instructions
    for Sky subs, for example:

    http://help.sky.com/broadband/set-up-sky-broadband/set-up-your-sky-hub-for-sky-fibre#!black-sky-hub

    The OP should note that the filter in the NTE is fine and you don't need
    to do anything.

    It works as the SR102 is a dual-technology modem.
     
    Rupert Moss-Eccardt, Jan 31, 2014
    #4
  5. David

    MikeJ Guest


    The story is far more complicated than in these postings.
    The Sky "black" hub is a standard ADSL device for use ONLY on a standard
    copper line where the ADSL signal comes on the copper all the way from
    the exchange. The filters provided or one of the ones you have put in
    the master socket are only suitable for standard ADSL.

    The fibre product is entirely different. The data goes to a local
    special green cabinet where all the data for multiple customers gets
    separated. Your old copper pair is diverted to this cabinet (from the
    existing old one in the street) and the new faster internet signal is
    combined with it and the signal plus your telephone then goes back to
    the old cabinet and on to your house. Hopefully this will be quite a
    short distance and so not much signal is lost.

    At your house, An Openreach Engineer WILL provide you with a new VDSL
    faceplate on your master socket which comes with improved filters fitted
    and the usual BT phone socket on the front (and tags on the back to
    connect extension wiring)and a filter in the phone side to avoid the BB
    signal getting unnecessarily sent around your house - so you can't now
    put the internet connections anywhere on phone sockets around the house!
    - and a removable bit with a single RJ11 (small 4pin)BB socket. He WILL
    provide a modem as well that in theory should be connected directly to
    this socket and close to it (see later) However this device is ONLY a
    modem with ONE RJ45 socket on it and does NOT contain a hub nor any sort
    of distribution system to your PC or wireless.

    You (or your provider) will supply a separate router/Wireless box with
    all the necessary interconnection and safety setup software. Your old
    hub will NOT work for this. This can be some distance away and Openreach
    MIGHT supply a suitable cable or you will have to provide a suitable
    network cable. I am not sure if the OR guy will help with this without
    lots of "tea and biscuits"

    In actual fact, the filter plate has tags on the back to extend the BB
    away to the BT modem elsewhere but you may have to do this yourself and
    accept the consequences (more tea and biscuits)
    The cable used should be good quality - either network cable or modern
    twisted pair BT phone cable.
    At the other end, you will have to then provide an RJ11 socket into
    which to plug the BT provided modem. However these are a bit rare in
    this country (they are used mainly in the USA for their phones) BUT it
    is possible to use an RJ45 socket and just connect the two centre pins
    and an RJ11 will fit in the middle and pick up the relevant connections.

    All a bit complicated but I hope this makes all clear. I did exactly
    this for aneighbour and it works fine.

    Good luck!

    Mike
     
    MikeJ, Jan 31, 2014
    #5
  6. David

    Jono Guest

    MikeJ has brought this to us :

    <snip>

    The current black hub has a built in VDSL modem.
     
    Jono, Jan 31, 2014
    #6
  7. David

    Graham. Guest


    Sadly, we are moving away from the that engineer install model, and
    towards self install just like ADSL
    http://help.sky.com/broadband/set-up-sky-broadband/set-up-your-sky-hub-for-sky-fibre#!black-sky-hub

    Notice how no mention is made of the multiple extension sockets that
    might be connected to that faceplate.

    Are extra VDSL filters provided for the other POTS devices?
    Even if the answer is yes it's still a poor way of doing it, I
    personally would never wire ADSL up with multiple filters, let alone
    VDSL.

    The whole point of the engineer visit is to ensure all the extensions
    are wired back to the single filter in the VDSL NTE that he installs.
    VDSL performance is much more likely to suffer than ADSL if this is
    not attended to.

    Disappointing, but I suppose it was inevitable really.
     
    Graham., Jan 31, 2014
    #7
  8. David

    Graham. Guest


    Ok.
    Assuming no Openreach engineer installation

    Option "A"
    Buy this
    http://www.clarity.it/vdsl_nte5_adaptor_faceplate.htm

    Use it to replace your existing filtered faceplate.

    Option "B"
    Replace the existing ADSL faceplate with the origanal non filtered
    one. Wire it to the extension(s) but don't fit it to the master
    socket, let it dangle.

    Plug the VDSL dongle filter that Sky supply into the internal socket
    on the master, now, wire length permitting, bodily plug the faceplate
    into the POTS socket on the filter.

    OK, it looks a total abortion but it achieves the goal of a central
    filter, and electrically it's equivalent to option "A"

    I suspect you might want to use "B" temporarily until you can
    implement "A"

    If they supply more than one filter (for extensions) please don't use
    them. See my comments in my earlier post.
     
    Graham., Jan 31, 2014
    #8
  9. David

    David Guest

    Mine is AdslNation and looks like this one,
    http://www.domesday1986.com/products/xte2005.php
    Regards
    David





    "Graham." wrote in message


    Ok.
    Assuming no Openreach engineer installation

    Option "A"
    Buy this
    http://www.clarity.it/vdsl_nte5_adaptor_faceplate.htm

    Use it to replace your existing filtered faceplate.

    Option "B"
    Replace the existing ADSL faceplate with the origanal non filtered
    one. Wire it to the extension(s) but don't fit it to the master
    socket, let it dangle.

    Plug the VDSL dongle filter that Sky supply into the internal socket
    on the master, now, wire length permitting, bodily plug the faceplate
    into the POTS socket on the filter.

    OK, it looks a total abortion but it achieves the goal of a central
    filter, and electrically it's equivalent to option "A"

    I suspect you might want to use "B" temporarily until you can
    implement "A"

    If they supply more than one filter (for extensions) please don't use
    them. See my comments in my earlier post.
     
    David, Feb 1, 2014
    #9
  10. That's what I thought, but apparently some can. The TG582n wireless
    router provided by my ISP arrived about a week before my fibre
    installation date, so I had a play with it, and found I could set it
    up to work on the ADSL2+ service I already had. On the day, the
    Openreach engineer installed one of their modems and plugged the
    TG582n into that instead of the wall socket. There's a simple
    configuration change in its setup pages to tell it what sort of
    broadband to use, fibre or ADSL, so this one can do both.

    So now I have two little boxes, a VDSL modem supplied by Openreach,
    and a wireless router supplied by my ISP. If I decided it was
    important for the sake of neatness to have the whole lot done by one
    little box, I understand they are available but are only made by a few
    companies and cost an arm and a leg, but in my case both little boxes
    are on a high shelf out of the way so for the time being I'm happy.

    Rod.
     
    Roderick Stewart, Feb 1, 2014
    #10
  11. David

    MikeJ Guest

    Thanks Jono.

    Digging very much deeper in another Sky page does suggest this for a
    non-engineer visit.
    However my comments about possibly requiring a VDSL faceplate and wiring
    setup generally still stands and possibly people will still want even
    the sky version near to their PC rather than at the master socket which
    - certainly in older properties - may well be out in the hall where
    one's only telephone was once installed!!

    Going to fibre does of course require re-connections in the green
    cabinet so one is still in the hands of Openreach as to when it happens
    and making sure it works. I don't know if a good one would come to the
    house anyway to tell you it had been done and check out what he had done
    worked!

    Mike
     
    MikeJ, Feb 1, 2014
    #11
  12. David

    MikeJ Guest

    Sorry - missed link from Graham that one can buy the new VDSL faceplate
    from http://www.clarity.it/vdsl_nte5_adaptor_faceplate.htm
    It goes on the front of the standard BT master socket either replacing
    the old ADSL one you bought or as a new fit. FULL installation details
    at that website including how to wire the BB away to near your PC if
    required.
    This would ensure that you maintained service until the changeover and
    defiitely remove engineer attendance.

    Mike
     
    MikeJ, Feb 1, 2014
    #12
  13. David

    Phil W Lee Guest

    BT seem to be fitting the new VDSL faceplate as standard now, whenever
    an engineer visit is needed.
    I got one when I had some faults on the line, and it was just about
    the first thing the engineer did, before even doing any testing.
    And VDSL isn't even available here yet - at the time the faceplate was
    fitted we didn't even have any projected timescale for it being
    available.
     
    Phil W Lee, Feb 1, 2014
    #13
  14. David

    John Weston Guest

    Maybe not "standard"? :) On my VDSL conversion last October I
    asked the OpenReach subcontractor (or so it said on his new
    van) if I should remove my ADSLnation ADSL faceplate for him to
    fit his VDSL faceplate and he replied that he "knew what he was
    doing"... (did he?) and used mine to directly feed his adjacent
    VDSL modem. I have connected from this to a remote cable router
    giving better Ethernet and wireless coverage where it's needed.

    This works fine, running at 39.88Mbps-down/9.996Mbps-up rates
    on an up to 40Mbps service. There was a short flapping line
    outage some 4 days after the installation which was diagnosed
    to a FTTC cabinet problem but, since then, it's as steady as a
    rock.

    I have my own opinion of the subcontractor's "knowledge" and
    feel I should have recorded his "customer attitude" just in
    case. The tea & biscuits I had waiting were postponed until
    after I'd tidied up...
     
    John Weston, Feb 2, 2014
    #14
  15. David

    kraftéé Guest

    Does sound exactly like a subo attitude, which the in house guys love as
    they have to go out and repair, often a nice easy job but on the odd
    occasion can be a right can of worms.

    As for the fact that the VDSL filter fitted as standard for all DSL faults,
    that is the official policy but as everyone on this group knows, what is
    official isn't what happens sometimes. I do know some who fit the full NTE5
    and VDSL filter on install now, the only problem is the end users who still
    fit the plugin filter and so raises a fault (which in this case is
    chargeable).
     
    kraftéé, Feb 2, 2014
    #15
  16. David

    kraftéé Guest

    kraftéé, Feb 2, 2014
    #16
  17. David

    kraftéé Guest

    AFAIK the only single box VDSL service is supplied by BT (with the new
    HH4/5) all others require a VDSL modem (actually a router but we won't go
    there) this includes SKY.

    As already stated the black Sky router (and instructions) is for DSL _NOT_
    VDSL
     
    kraftéé, Feb 2, 2014
    #17
  18. What about this?

    http://www.zen.co.uk/home-office/broadband/fibre-optic-broadband/technicolor-tg789.aspx

    It says it has an "integrated VDSL2 modem", though I do understand
    that technical claims written by advertisers for equipment suppliers
    cannot always be taken literally. Sometimes it's a bit difficult to
    work out exactly what the various little boxes do actually contain, as
    the usual arrangement for ADSL is a modem, router and wireless access
    point all in the same box, but they're often just referred to as a
    modem or router.

    The wireless router I have is the cheaper Technicolor one, which
    doesn't seem to include a VDSL modem because it requires the separate
    Openreach box for FTTC, but definitely does include an ADSL modem
    because I was using it on its own before FTTC was installed.

    So, at face value (if correct) the TG789 looks like a neat solution
    all in one box, if a rather expensive one, and I'm sure I've seen a
    description of something by Draytek as well.

    Rod.
     
    Roderick Stewart, Feb 2, 2014
    #18
  19. David

    zaax Guest

    Its still copper to the front door, its only fiber to your street cabinet.

    You will have to decide where the BT Openreach modem is going, it will
    need a power supply and once in it will cost a expensive BT Openreach
    call out to move it.
     
    zaax, Feb 2, 2014
    #19
  20. David

    Graham. Guest





    Good grief Kraftee, I bet you're right.

    So why do they retain that fucking great
    "Set up your Sky Hub for Sky Fibre" headline on both tabs?

    The saddest part is I am with BE and I am being transferred to these
    tossers later this year.
     
    Graham., Feb 2, 2014
    #20
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