Network Neighbourhood sees only one way!

Discussion in 'Windows Networking' started by =?Utf-8?B?TWlrZVItT3o=?=, Dec 15, 2005.

  1. have a 2 PC network
    PC 1 is Win XP Pc 2 is Win 98se

    Both PC's can access the internet via router.

    I can see the win 98se PC and access its files from the XP Pc

    BUT when I choose network places on the desktop of the 98se PC it does not
    show anything??

    Why is it one way viewing and how do I correct it??
     
    =?Utf-8?B?TWlrZVItT3o=?=, Dec 15, 2005
    #1
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  2. =?Utf-8?B?TWlrZVItT3o=?=

    Ian Knight Guest

    I think you'll find that the problem is that you don't have NetBeui
    installed on the XP machine -
    the machines are quite to talk to the Internet using TCP/IP and the XP
    machine has enough sense to 'wander' around a 98 machine to get files but
    the Win98 can't browse the Network Neighbourhood by itself without NetBeui.

    If you've only got the two machines, then I believe putting their IP
    addresses and machine name in the LMHOSTS file on each machine should sort
    of solve things. NetBeui is handy though if you have several machines
    connected on relatively small network with no Domain Controller and DHCP'd
    addresses - you can find the NetBeui driver for XP on the Internet or tucked
    away in a directory on your XP install CD.

    If you decide to do it that way - don't trust WinXP to install the files
    properly - the driver file usually has text file saying where each of the
    two files should be copied to on the XP machine and you need to do this from
    an 'explorer' window. If you don't then your network browsing will be
    unpredictable!

    I know this approach works (as opposed to using LMHosts) as I use it at home
    for linking my machine together,

    Ian
     
    Ian Knight, Dec 24, 2005
    #2
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  3. All versions of Windows can use TCP/IP as the only network protocol.
    Nothing in Windows networking requires, or has ever required NetBEUI.

    NetBEUI is an unsupported protocol in Windows XP. Yes, you can
    install NetBEUI from the XP CD-ROM, but Microsoft hasn't tested it,
    recommends not using it, and won't give technical support for it.

    Microsoft wouldn't have dropped support for NetBEUI if anything in
    Windows networking needed NetBEUI.

    Using more than one network protocol is likely to cause problems,
    especially when Windows XP is involved. I've written a web page with
    details:

    Windows XP Network Protocols
    http://www.practicallynetworked.com/sharing/xp/network_protocols.htm
     
    Steve Winograd [MVP], Dec 30, 2005
    #3
  4. =?Utf-8?B?TWlrZVItT3o=?=

    Muddle Guest

    Their is a difference between NetBEUI and NetBIOS, they are often confused
    with one another. Win98 has enable NetBIOS over TCP/IP turned on and grayed
    out so you can't turn it off. WinXP doesn't have NetBIOS over TCP/IP turned
    on by default. To enable NetBIOS over TCP/IP in WinXP you should not have
    to insert your WinXP disk or install anything, just check the appropriate
    setting under TCP/IP properties to turn it on. If you have NetBEUI
    installed, you don't need it and can safely uninstall it. Change that one
    setting on the WinXP machine, then you may have to reboot both of them.
    Your Win98 machines should now be able to see the WinXP machines, provided
    they have the same workgroup name.
     
    Muddle, Dec 30, 2005
    #4
  5. =?Utf-8?B?TWlrZVItT3o=?=

    Ian Knight Guest

    Steve,
    Yes - you're right about Windows Networking but from bitter
    experience if the
    install isn't "spanking new" then installing NetBeui (on Win 98 machines
    certainly) can
    sometimes straighten things out by freshening/reinstating DLL's.

    I would take issue with your statement as being semantically incorrect

    "Nothing in Windows networking requires, or has ever required NetBEUI."

    If my memory serves - Windows for Workgroups 3.11 installed NetBeui and
    IPX/SPX by default
    (that's how I started with Peer to Peer without Novell!) and for a while was
    the 'native protocol' for
    Win NT when it first appeared. NetBeui must have served some purpose
    otherwise why did
    Microsoft go to all the trouble of enhancing the NetBios command set?

    Sorry to seem picky, but I have installed plenty of small (3-4 stations)
    peer to peer networks where the user is
    unwilling or incapable of getting their head around IP address, Subnet
    Masks, doesn't need internet access etc
    - NetBeui fits the bill and gives them something meaningful in Network
    Neighbourhood without getting too technical.

    Regards,
    Ian
     
    Ian Knight, Jan 3, 2006
    #5
  6. Hi, Ian.

    It's interesting to hear about your experience from way back when. I
    used NetBEUI on my first network, because the web sites (e.g. J.
    Helmig's "World of Windows Networking") and news groups that I read
    recommended it.

    But I changed my tune several years ago. I've installed and worked on
    dozens of small peer-to-peer networks since then, and I now remove
    NetBEUI from any network that I work on, leaving only TCP/IP.

    If a network that has TCP/IP only works after adding NetBEUI,
    something was (and still is) wrong with its setup, and NetBEUI is just
    acting as a bandage and hiding the problem.

    I think that you're right about WfW3.11. Since it installed both
    IPX/SPX and NetBEUI, I stand by the semantic correctness of my
    statement that "Nothing in Windows networking requires, or has ever
    required NetBEUI." You could remove NetBEUI and use only IPX/SPX in
    WfW3.11. NetBEUI was sufficient, but not necessary, for networking.

    Microsoft then released TCP/IP-32 for WfW3.11, making both IPX/SPX
    and NetBEUI unnecessary.

    I think that it's fine to use NetBEUI on a network. However, if you
    do, I strongly recommend removing all other protocols or, at least,
    un-binding File and Printer Sharing from all other protocols, as I
    describe on my protocols web page. In my experience, using more than
    one protocol for File and Printer Sharing causes network browsing
    problems, especially when Windows XP is involved.

    What networking DLLs are straightened out by installing NetBEUI? I've
    un-installed and re-installed Client for Microsoft Networks to do
    that, but I'm not aware of any positive effect of adding a protocol.
     
    Steve Winograd [MVP], Jan 4, 2006
    #6
  7. =?Utf-8?B?TWlrZVItT3o=?=

    Ian Knight Guest

    Steve,
    Couldn't agree more with removing unneeded protocols - and if it's a small
    Win98 machine,
    then it frees up some system resources and memory not to have unnecessary
    stacks about,
    especially if Internet access isn't needed.
    Can't place my finger on which DLL's are actually straightened out, but I
    have been asked to look
    at a couple of networks where somebody who didn't know how had tried to
    setup peer to peer - installing NetBeui
    got things working (and in one case allowed me to then remove NetBeui and
    the networking came back!).
    It seemed perverse to me (and still does) but hey, it get's the customer his
    network back and without the grief and hassle of doing a complete system
    tear-down and re-install!

    Thanks for taking the time to correspond!

    Regards,
    Ian.
     
    Ian Knight, Jan 4, 2006
    #7
  8. =?Utf-8?B?TWlrZVItT3o=?=

    inkleputDEL Guest

    I'm curious what would not need internet access. To me, the worst thing
    about running Windows is that it is virtually impossible to operate
    without an internet connection. Application documentation is only on
    the internet in many, many cases. Everything seems based on the thin
    client concept (altho the client itself gets thicker and thicker).
    Given the availability of memory, speed and HD space it makes no sense
    to me, but it's there.

    Jim L via the eCS 1.15 version of OS/2

    --
     
    inkleputDEL, Jan 4, 2006
    #8
  9. =?Utf-8?B?TWlrZVItT3o=?=

    ldj Guest

    I have exactly the same problems as MikeR-Oz. I went into the Xp's
    TCP/IP and enabled NetBIOS. It didn't work. I wonder if MikeR-Oz got his
    working and if so what he did?
    L.D.
     
    ldj, Jan 7, 2006
    #9
  10. =?Utf-8?B?TWlrZVItT3o=?=

    Muddle Guest

    What is your machine setup. What computers, what NIC's, what Workgroup
    name, do you have TweakUI installed etc. Linksys and DLlink don't swing on
    the same swing sets, different Workgroups can't play together well, TweakUI
    logon settings mess up many things.
    If the entire research on these problems were available to you I have no
    doubt you wouldn't have posted a question and none of the sites these MVP's
    or other idiot posters will help you as they have an alternate agenda$
    Microsoft deleted many years of information posted to this Microsoft
    newsgroup. About the only thing google is good for is retaining
    information. Post or search there.
     
    Muddle, Jan 7, 2006
    #10
  11. =?Utf-8?B?TWlrZVItT3o=?=

    Ian Knight Guest

    Jim,
    A small (5-7 PC's runing win98) network running an accounts package for
    a company, and doing some word
    processing on 1 or 2 machines doesn't need Internet access. IE 5.5 can be
    updated using a CD based Service Pack - updates to the accounting package
    arrive via CD, anything else is running sweetly!

    This mostly describes the set-up at my workplace - some of the machines have
    TCP/IP installed but only to 'talk' to a mail gateway machine (and that's
    only been a feature for 12 months or so). Day to day the users get buy with
    basic software training and don't need access to application docs so it
    works quite nicely.

    Ian
     
    Ian Knight, Jan 8, 2006
    #11
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