NetBIOS vs TCP/IP?

Discussion in 'Home Networking' started by esara, Apr 26, 2004.

  1. esara

    esara Guest

    Hi I want to learn what does "NetBIOS" do? I have found the defination
    of NetBIOS (see below please). What I do NOT understand this part
    <quote>
    NetBIOS frees the application from having to understand the details of
    the network, including error recovery (in session mode).
    </quote>

    I thought this is what TCP/IP suppose to do not NetBIOS?? what is the
    difference between NetBIOS and TCP/IP? do I need both?? and why??
    I would appreciate any help in advanced. Thanks.

    ====================================

    from www.whatis.com
    NetBIOS
    NetBIOS (Network Basic Input/Output System) is a program that allows
    applications on different computers to communicate within a local area
    network (LAN). It was created by IBM for its early PC Network, was
    adopted by Microsoft, and has since become a de facto industry
    standard. NetBIOS is used in Ethernet and Token Ring networks and,
    included as part of NetBIOS Extended User Interface (NetBEUI), in
    recent Microsoft Windows operating systems. It does not in itself
    support a routing mechanism so applications communicating on a wide
    area network (WAN) must use another "transport mechanism" (such as
    Transmission Control Protocol) rather than or in addition to NetBIOS.
    NetBIOS frees the application from having to understand the details of
    the network, including error recovery (in session mode). A NetBIOS
    request is provided in the form of a Network Control Block (NCB)
    which, among other things, specifies a message location and the name
    of a destination.

    NetBIOS provides the session and transport services described in the
    Open Systems Interconnection (OSI) model. However, it does not provide
    a standard frame or data format for transmission. A standard frame
    format is provided by NetBUI.

    NetBIOS provides two communication modes: session or datagram. Session
    mode lets two computers establish a connection for a "conversation,"
    allows larger messages to be handled, and provides error detection and
    recovery. Datagram mode is "connectionless" (each message is sent
    independently), messages must be smaller, and the application is
    responsible for error detection and recovery. Datagram mode also
    supports the broadcast of a message to every computer on the LAN.
     
    esara, Apr 26, 2004
    #1
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  2. On 26 Apr 2004 11:32:55 -0700, (esara) wrote:

    >I thought this is what TCP/IP suppose to do not NetBIOS?? what is the
    >difference between NetBIOS and TCP/IP? do I need both?? and why??


    TCP/IP is a protocol for moving packets, NetBIOS is the layer above
    for networking between windows PCs. Enabling NetBios ove rTCP/IP
    allows you to share files and printers.

    NetBEUI is an alternative transport mechanism not supported under XP.
    Its faster on local LANs not using internet connectivity.


    Phil
     
    Phil Thompson, Apr 26, 2004
    #2
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  3. esara

    T i m Guest

    On 26 Apr 2004 11:32:55 -0700, (esara) wrote:

    >Hi I want to learn what does "NetBIOS" do? I have found the defination
    >of NetBIOS (see below please). What I do NOT understand this part
    ><quote>
    >NetBIOS frees the application from having to understand the details of
    >the network, including error recovery (in session mode).
    ></quote>


    What I think it's saying might make more sense in a DOS environment?

    I think it's saying that the application (say a WP package) needent
    bother with trying to move a file to the (network) printer bacause
    NetBIOS would handle it?
    >
    >I thought this is what TCP/IP suppose to do not NetBIOS?? what is the
    >difference between NetBIOS and TCP/IP? do I need both?? and why??
    >I would appreciate any help in advanced. Thanks.


    There are many means to this end .. simply

    NetBIOS. Simple and fast but not routable because in the packet of
    information there is no field saying what network it is on.

    IPX / SPX a pair of protocols associated with Novell that are more
    flexible but (slightly) slower than NetBIOS. Because the frame has
    extra fields containing network information the data can be routed
    between one network (number) and another.

    TCP/IP is the most flexible but because it has more header (routing
    etc) info in the packet in comparison with NetBIOS and IPX / SPX, can
    carry less information for the same size packet and therefore is
    slower.

    Roughly ..

    T i m

    p.s. Bottom line. If you want to use the internet (without a
    'gateway') choose TCP /IP ;-)
     
    T i m, Apr 26, 2004
    #3
  4. esara

    Jock Guest

    On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:17:02 +0100, Phil Thompson <>
    wrote:

    >On 26 Apr 2004 11:32:55 -0700, (esara) wrote:
    >
    >>I thought this is what TCP/IP suppose to do not NetBIOS?? what is the
    >>difference between NetBIOS and TCP/IP? do I need both?? and why??

    >
    >TCP/IP is a protocol for moving packets, NetBIOS is the layer above
    >for networking between windows PCs. Enabling NetBios ove rTCP/IP
    >allows you to share files and printers.
    >
    >NetBEUI is an alternative transport mechanism not supported under XP.


    Whilst it isn't installed, it's available on the XP system disc if
    you want it.

    >Its faster on local LANs not using internet connectivity.


    A lot faster.

    --

    Jock.
     
    Jock, Apr 26, 2004
    #4
  5. esara

    flekso Guest

    "T i m" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On 26 Apr 2004 11:32:55 -0700, (esara) wrote:
    >
    > >Hi I want to learn what does "NetBIOS" do? I have found the defination
    > >of NetBIOS (see below please). What I do NOT understand this part
    > ><quote>
    > >NetBIOS frees the application from having to understand the details of
    > >the network, including error recovery (in session mode).
    > ></quote>

    >
    > What I think it's saying might make more sense in a DOS environment?
    >
    > I think it's saying that the application (say a WP package) needent
    > bother with trying to move a file to the (network) printer bacause
    > NetBIOS would handle it?
    > >
    > >I thought this is what TCP/IP suppose to do not NetBIOS?? what is the
    > >difference between NetBIOS and TCP/IP? do I need both?? and why??
    > >I would appreciate any help in advanced. Thanks.

    >
    > There are many means to this end .. simply
    >
    > NetBIOS. Simple and fast but not routable because in the packet of
    > information there is no field saying what network it is on.
    >
    > IPX / SPX a pair of protocols associated with Novell that are more
    > flexible but (slightly) slower than NetBIOS. Because the frame has
    > extra fields containing network information the data can be routed
    > between one network (number) and another.
    >
    > TCP/IP is the most flexible but because it has more header (routing
    > etc) info in the packet in comparison with NetBIOS and IPX / SPX, can
    > carry less information for the same size packet and therefore is
    > slower.
    >
    > Roughly ..
    >
    > T i m
    >
    > p.s. Bottom line. If you want to use the internet (without a
    > 'gateway') choose TCP /IP ;-)


    I was wondering how to make use of both in a small firm, but to use tcp only
    as a medium for accessing the gateway to the internet. I've read somthing
    about placing the netbeui on top of the protocol stack but no matter in what
    order i install them the tcp always comes out on top (i'm talking in terms
    of windows connection properties window).

    Any clues?
     
    flekso, Apr 27, 2004
    #5
  6. esara

    Rob Morley Guest

    In article <c6lomg$aij$>, "flekso"
    says...
    > "T i m" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > On 26 Apr 2004 11:32:55 -0700, (esara) wrote:
    > >
    > > >Hi I want to learn what does "NetBIOS" do? I have found the defination
    > > >of NetBIOS (see below please). What I do NOT understand this part
    > > ><quote>
    > > >NetBIOS frees the application from having to understand the details of
    > > >the network, including error recovery (in session mode).
    > > ></quote>

    > >
    > > What I think it's saying might make more sense in a DOS environment?
    > >
    > > I think it's saying that the application (say a WP package) needent
    > > bother with trying to move a file to the (network) printer bacause
    > > NetBIOS would handle it?
    > > >
    > > >I thought this is what TCP/IP suppose to do not NetBIOS?? what is the
    > > >difference between NetBIOS and TCP/IP? do I need both?? and why??
    > > >I would appreciate any help in advanced. Thanks.

    > >
    > > There are many means to this end .. simply
    > >
    > > NetBIOS. Simple and fast but not routable because in the packet of
    > > information there is no field saying what network it is on.
    > >
    > > IPX / SPX a pair of protocols associated with Novell that are more
    > > flexible but (slightly) slower than NetBIOS. Because the frame has
    > > extra fields containing network information the data can be routed
    > > between one network (number) and another.
    > >
    > > TCP/IP is the most flexible but because it has more header (routing
    > > etc) info in the packet in comparison with NetBIOS and IPX / SPX, can
    > > carry less information for the same size packet and therefore is
    > > slower.
    > >
    > > Roughly ..
    > >
    > > T i m
    > >
    > > p.s. Bottom line. If you want to use the internet (without a
    > > 'gateway') choose TCP /IP ;-)

    >
    > I was wondering how to make use of both in a small firm, but to use tcp only
    > as a medium for accessing the gateway to the internet. I've read somthing
    > about placing the netbeui on top of the protocol stack but no matter in what
    > order i install them the tcp always comes out on top (i'm talking in terms
    > of windows connection properties window).
    >

    From memory, just make sure that NetBEUI is installed, that "Enable
    NetBIOS over TCP/IP" is _not_ selected on Win9X machines, and "Disable
    NetBIOS over TCP/IP" is selected on XP machines.
     
    Rob Morley, Apr 27, 2004
    #6
  7. In article <>, Phil Thompson
    <> writes
    >>I thought this is what TCP/IP suppose to do not NetBIOS?? what is the
    >>difference between NetBIOS and TCP/IP? do I need both?? and why??

    >
    >TCP/IP is a protocol for moving packets, NetBIOS is the layer above for
    >networking between windows PCs. Enabling NetBios ove rTCP/IP allows you
    >to share files and printers.
    >
    >NetBEUI is an alternative transport mechanism not supported under XP.
    >Its faster on local LANs not using internet connectivity.


    I found NetBEUI less reliable than TCP/IP, when I used it on my original
    home network (10base2-BNC under Win 95). I found that large files were
    getting corrupted in transfer, and I had to resort to zipping large
    files so that I could check for corruption afterwards. When I switched
    to TCP/IP, these problems went away.

    --
    John Blundell
     
    John Blundell, Apr 27, 2004
    #7
  8. esara

    Ian Guest

    "flekso" <> wrote in message news:<c6lomg$aij$>...
    > "T i m" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > On 26 Apr 2004 11:32:55 -0700, (esara) wrote:
    > >
    > > >Hi I want to learn what does "NetBIOS" do? I have found the defination
    > > >of NetBIOS (see below please). What I do NOT understand this part
    > > ><quote>
    > > >NetBIOS frees the application from having to understand the details of
    > > >the network, including error recovery (in session mode).
    > > ></quote>

    > >
    > > What I think it's saying might make more sense in a DOS environment?
    > >
    > > I think it's saying that the application (say a WP package) needent
    > > bother with trying to move a file to the (network) printer bacause
    > > NetBIOS would handle it?
    > > >
    > > >I thought this is what TCP/IP suppose to do not NetBIOS?? what is the
    > > >difference between NetBIOS and TCP/IP? do I need both?? and why??
    > > >I would appreciate any help in advanced. Thanks.

    > >
    > > There are many means to this end .. simply
    > >
    > > NetBIOS. Simple and fast but not routable because in the packet of
    > > information there is no field saying what network it is on.
    > >
    > > IPX / SPX a pair of protocols associated with Novell that are more
    > > flexible but (slightly) slower than NetBIOS. Because the frame has
    > > extra fields containing network information the data can be routed
    > > between one network (number) and another.
    > >
    > > TCP/IP is the most flexible but because it has more header (routing
    > > etc) info in the packet in comparison with NetBIOS and IPX / SPX, can
    > > carry less information for the same size packet and therefore is
    > > slower.
    > >
    > > Roughly ..
    > >
    > > T i m
    > >
    > > p.s. Bottom line. If you want to use the internet (without a
    > > 'gateway') choose TCP /IP ;-)

    >
    > I was wondering how to make use of both in a small firm, but to use tcp only
    > as a medium for accessing the gateway to the internet. I've read somthing
    > about placing the netbeui on top of the protocol stack but no matter in what
    > order i install them the tcp always comes out on top (i'm talking in terms
    > of windows connection properties window).
    >
    > Any clues?


    Why ? You will need nebios if you have a windows network and you will
    need TCP/IP for ANY network. But to make life simple if you have a
    windows network just install tcp/ip and you will get netbios.
    Personally I think you are looking a bit too deep, Just install TCP/IP
    and enable netbios if its disabled and forget about it.

    Ian
     
    Ian, Apr 27, 2004
    #8
  9. esara

    T i m Guest

    On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 19:01:34 +0100, John Blundell <>
    wrote:

    >In article <>, Phil Thompson
    ><> writes
    >>>I thought this is what TCP/IP suppose to do not NetBIOS?? what is the
    >>>difference between NetBIOS and TCP/IP? do I need both?? and why??

    >>
    >>TCP/IP is a protocol for moving packets, NetBIOS is the layer above for
    >>networking between windows PCs. Enabling NetBios ove rTCP/IP allows you
    >>to share files and printers.
    >>
    >>NetBEUI is an alternative transport mechanism not supported under XP.
    >>Its faster on local LANs not using internet connectivity.

    >
    >I found NetBEUI less reliable than TCP/IP, when I used it on my original
    >home network (10base2-BNC under Win 95). I found that large files were
    >getting corrupted in transfer, and I had to resort to zipping large
    >files so that I could check for corruption afterwards. When I switched
    >to TCP/IP, these problems went away.


    Might of just been some bad drivers John?

    I used to back-up the entire server over a NetBIOS 10base2 LAN every
    Friday for 2 years with no problems?

    All the best ..

    T i m
     
    T i m, Apr 27, 2004
    #9
  10. In article <>, T i m
    <> writes
    >>I found NetBEUI less reliable than TCP/IP, when I used it on my original
    >>home network (10base2-BNC under Win 95). I found that large files were
    >>getting corrupted in transfer, and I had to resort to zipping large
    >>files so that I could check for corruption afterwards. When I switched
    >>to TCP/IP, these problems went away.

    >
    >Might of just been some bad drivers John?


    Maybe, but it is too far away now to double check. I did all sorts of
    things to try to sort out the problem. Disabling NetBEUI, and enabling
    TCP/IP, without changing the installed software, did the trick.

    >I used to back-up the entire server over a NetBIOS 10base2 LAN every
    >Friday for 2 years with no problems?


    Did you test the integrity, or restore these backups? The problem was
    only evident when trying to use the files. If I can remember, the
    problem first showed when I transferred some CAB files across, and then
    I could not install from them.

    --
    John Blundell
     
    John Blundell, Apr 28, 2004
    #10
  11. esara

    shope Guest

    "T i m" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On 26 Apr 2004 11:32:55 -0700, (esara) wrote:
    >
    > >Hi I want to learn what does "NetBIOS" do? I have found the defination
    > >of NetBIOS (see below please). What I do NOT understand this part
    > ><quote>
    > >NetBIOS frees the application from having to understand the details of
    > >the network, including error recovery (in session mode).
    > ></quote>

    >
    > What I think it's saying might make more sense in a DOS environment?
    >
    > I think it's saying that the application (say a WP package) needent
    > bother with trying to move a file to the (network) printer bacause
    > NetBIOS would handle it?


    NetBIOS is the definition of the programming interface - the idea was to
    give something programmers could use which wouldnt tie them to a specific
    type of network (this was when ethernet was just another kind of LAN,
    competing with Arcnet, token ring and lots of others).

    the interface got used for file sharing in DOS, then was emulated in other
    network stacks - again to allow the programmer to ignore which protocols a
    user chose.
    > >
    > >I thought this is what TCP/IP suppose to do not NetBIOS?? what is the
    > >difference between NetBIOS and TCP/IP? do I need both?? and why??
    > >I would appreciate any help in advanced. Thanks.


    IP and TCP are network protocols, but dont give you file sharing and DOS
    style directories, filenames, file locking and all the other complications
    you need to let PCs share files across a network - they just get packets and
    streams between end points. you need more protocols toget the file sharing
    stuff layered on top.
    >
    > There are many means to this end .. simply
    >
    > NetBIOS. Simple and fast but not routable because in the packet of
    > information there is no field saying what network it is on.


    you are actually describing NetBEUI, this is the protocol IBM had written to
    implement the interface.
    >
    > IPX / SPX a pair of protocols associated with Novell that are more
    > flexible but (slightly) slower than NetBIOS. Because the frame has
    > extra fields containing network information the data can be routed
    > between one network (number) and another.


    Novell also has an optional NetBIOS emulation layer over IPX for cases where
    NCP based file sharing wasnt close enough to NetBIOS - but recent versions
    of windows can use the netware file sharing mechanisms directly instead
    >
    > TCP/IP is the most flexible but because it has more header (routing
    > etc) info in the packet in comparison with NetBIOS and IPX / SPX, can
    > carry less information for the same size packet and therefore is
    > slower.


    Its more a matter of TCP/IP being so pervasive that it has become the
    default choice in a lot of situations.
    >
    > Roughly ..
    >
    > T i m
    >
    > p.s. Bottom line. If you want to use the internet (without a
    > 'gateway') choose TCP /IP ;-)

    --
    Regards

    Stephen Hope - return address needs fewer xxs
     
    shope, Apr 28, 2004
    #11
  12. esara

    T i m Guest

    On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 07:20:57 +0100, John Blundell <>
    wrote:

    >In article <>, T i m
    ><> writes
    >>>I found NetBEUI less reliable than TCP/IP, when I used it on my original
    >>>home network (10base2-BNC under Win 95). I found that large files were
    >>>getting corrupted in transfer, and I had to resort to zipping large
    >>>files so that I could check for corruption afterwards. When I switched
    >>>to TCP/IP, these problems went away.

    >>
    >>Might of just been some bad drivers John?

    >
    >Maybe, but it is too far away now to double check. I did all sorts of
    >things to try to sort out the problem. Disabling NetBEUI, and enabling
    >TCP/IP, without changing the installed software, did the trick.
    >
    >>I used to back-up the entire server over a NetBIOS 10base2 LAN every
    >>Friday for 2 years with no problems?

    >
    >Did you test the integrity, or restore these backups?


    "Of course" and "I'm afraid so". It was a 30 user business LAN where
    they were constantly moving fairly big graphics / presentaion files
    about all day long and with no problems?

    The problem was
    >only evident when trying to use the files. If I can remember, the
    >problem first showed when I transferred some CAB files across, and then
    >I could not install from them.


    Strange ..? I believe IBM's 'Lan Manager' business product was NetBIOS
    and was very popular in it's day?

    All the best ..

    T i m
     
    T i m, Apr 29, 2004
    #12
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