Net neutrality

Discussion in 'Broadband' started by Mike Tomlinson, May 10, 2014.

  1. Mike Tomlinson, May 10, 2014
    #1
    1. Advertisements

  2. George Weston, May 10, 2014
    #2
    1. Advertisements

  3. Ah. a penny has just dropped. many thanks for that link - I would have
    read it anyway but not for another hour...hadn't got down to el reg
    yet..I always seem to start with mail, then usenet..


    ISP peering was always shrouded in 'its not quite worth our while to
    charge you' ness. And a lot of "well lets get rid or this packet EARLY
    onto YOUR network, since its YOUR customer.."

    However it sorta reminds me of when the web first came along. Up to that
    point most traffic was email, and usenet with a bit of file transfer.

    Usenet was the biggest traffic. no one wanted it because it was a
    service used by few and paid for by everybody. It could full a 2Mbps
    pile just keeping up with it.

    Then the web took over and pushing all those sexy images totally
    dominated the net for a while.

    Today its pushing videos.

    In all cases what solved the problem was more bandwidth. And/or caching.

    And then server location.

    And that's where it starts to get interesting.

    I am a big content delivery company. I can build a private network and
    peer (or buy bandwidth) with the internet in the USA, in the UK and in
    many other places. Its up to me what I do, routing wise inside my cloud.

    IN fact I can do the equivalent of NAT. So that a request for a given
    machine can connect any one of 50 or 100 machines as decided by which
    one is 'closest' to the point the request enters my 'network'. If the
    content doesn't change I only need to sync these say once a day to
    ensure they all have cached copies. I don't even have to have private
    links between these nodes. Since I don't advertise transit links. I can
    synch them over the public internet.


    The argument then comes as to whether I am going to pay the ISPS that I
    peer with ....they get the benefit of their customers accessing me but
    they have to pay to transmit my data to MY customers.

    Whose customers are they?


    And that is the resal battel.

    Does a person on BT Internet paying £8 a month to BT and £8 a month to
    netflix 'belong' to netflix or to BT?


    Nothing moral in this at all.All about profit.









    --
    Ineptocracy

    (in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
    lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
    members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
    rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
    diminishing number of producers.
     
    The Natural Philosopher, May 11, 2014
    #3
  4. Mike Tomlinson

    7 Guest


    You seem to have very little understanding of what an internet is.

    The internet is not its content.

    The internet is just a packet shuffling network.
    The ISPs should only charge according to how many
    packets its shuffling.

    The ISP should never be allowed to open the
    packets and inspect it to make judgement calls.

    They should only be allowed to offer more packets and charge
    accordingly.

    There is nothing to discuss beyond that as the ISP
    would never have any rights to open a packet.

    If an ISP or back bone provider cannot provide
    more packets at a cheaper price and continue
    the trend of internet expansion,
    they should be allowed to wither and perish
    so that more capable companies with fewer
    overheads can service the booming market.
     
    7, May 11, 2014
    #4
  5. indeed. without 'opening the packet' it cant do routing.


    --
    Ineptocracy

    (in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
    lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
    members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
    rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
    diminishing number of producers.
     
    The Natural Philosopher, May 12, 2014
    #5
  6. Mike Tomlinson

    Mark Guest

    They don't need to look at the data though, just the header.
     
    Mark, May 12, 2014
    #6
  7. Mike Tomlinson

    tim..... Guest

    But isn't the information required here in the header?

    I don't know how the internet works, but when I used to work on sending
    voice over private data networks there were different classes of data
    packet.

    Those which need to be delivered in the right order with the same delay
    every time (AKA audio/video streaming) and those where you don't care (the
    rest). You didn't need to read the data to find this out, the sender told
    you as it was in his interests to do so

    And if providing a network to satisfy the former costs more, it doesn't seem
    unreasonable to ask the people who use it to pay that extra. Why should
    those who don't need, it subsidise it for those that do?

    tim
     
    tim....., May 12, 2014
    #7
  8. well the port is part of the destination and source as well, so opening
    the header allows discrimination based on port and hence service type,
    and indeed whose network the packet comes from. Or whither it is bound..

    Can you envisage e.g. BT, NOT giving priority to its own servers packets?

    "Our network is fine, its nothing to do with US is it?"

    And that is of course the nub of the whole issue. When the line between
    packet carriers and content providers gets blurred....




    --
    Ineptocracy

    (in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
    lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
    members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
    rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
    diminishing number of producers.
     
    The Natural Philosopher, May 12, 2014
    #8
  9. well that's another wholly different argument, like why should a city
    dweller subsidise rural telephone and postal services..

    OR healthy people subsidise sick ones etc etc...


    --
    Ineptocracy

    (in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
    lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
    members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
    rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
    diminishing number of producers.
     
    The Natural Philosopher, May 12, 2014
    #9
  10. Mike Tomlinson

    7 Guest


    You are deepening the hole that you dug for yourself
    by showing even less understanding of what you know about
    internet.

    Inspecting packet header for routing
    has nothing to do with what is meant by 'opening the packet'.

    If you open a VoIP packet that isn't yours for example,
    consider doing some jail time for telephone interception
    as your debt to society.

    That is about as serious as it gets when ISPs start
    opening packets. I'm surprised none of the executives got jail time
    in the Phorm scandal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phorm
     
    7, May 12, 2014
    #10
  11. Don't get involved - it's Mr 7 again, who posts ostensibly plausible
    questions and then goes on to argue aggressively with anyone who responds.
    In short - a troll.
    And he will probably come back with something for me following this post.:-(
     
    George Weston, May 13, 2014
    #11
  12. Mike Tomlinson

    7 Guest

    George Weston wrote:


    Oh dear!

    Don't forget George westen is that internet troll Bob Eagerness
    dressed up girls clothes again with a multitude of socks that
    agree with her opinion.

    The only thing this girl gets happiness out of is
    drinking out of a vomit filled cesspit after having added to it.

    Some day she will find a job when she manages
    to free herself from her paid for job as internet trolling
    cubicle bound monster.
    That is if her fat bottom can be moved by heavy lift gear
    available without breaking the machine.



    Trolling is an Industry in USA
    ------------------------------

    Hiring low pay online trolls is ignorant.

    Those hiring online trolls are too afraid to make a statement
    in person in case their bollocks got cut off and sold
    on ebay for 2 cents. The directors of companies that set up trolling
    corporations are themselves afraid of ebay.

    Most US politicians and businesses
    are so corrupt and reliant to the point of addiction
    on trolls and trolling and so they fund it all illegally
    through charities because
    funding through charities is untraceable
    through loopholes in US law.

    The lastest insertions of NSA trolls
    is in the courier busienss. If you thinking of ordering stuff
    through Fedexx or UPSs or any US based courier
    then be sure to give it a miss. The NSA trolls and their
    equivalents have been inserted in there to pass up information
    to corporate thieves. They can order
    up disruption to your deliveries, especially if you are open
    source company. Typically stuff goes missing whenever
    there are important samples being couriered around, or when
    there is about to be some important event taking place.

    With trolls inserted into every fabric of socienty, USA is become
    the world's top trolling nation.

    It doesn't end there.

    Even the NSA and GCHQ is afraid of internet trolling corporations
    like Burson Marstelar and their parent company with its 100,000 trolls.
    They should be hacking them because it is their job
    to get the inside dirt on every politician, and powerful businesses
    that rely on trolling corporations. These internet trolling corporations
    have more information than governments that is worthwhile for the
    power it has over the running of the world than any other internet treasure
    worth its weight in gold.

    Nearly all foul mouthed trolling across all of usenet and forums
    originates from the USA trolling industry.
    The same ones screaming abuse against Americans
    are the same ones screaming abuse at the rest of the world.
    The US politician is proud because without their
    daily dose of illegal funding through charities, and the
    services of industrial strength trolling machinery,
    they would be out flipping burgers for a living.

    Troll friendly usenet sites like eternal-september.org
    banned by att.net, ameritech.net, bellsouth.net, pacbell.net
    and prodigy.net for its foul mouth and lies over trolling
    and off topic spammer friendly posting policies against
    the usenet charter of all known groups is where all of
    the trolling problems begins.

    The US politicians, embassy staff and anyone else falling for it like
    Spanish government should know that the US trolls
    ordering embassies to this kind of work
    have no mandate for these kinds of activities.

    Just rich companies that have bank rolled teams of asstroturfers
    to create fake support and certainly no mandate.
    Companies like Eedleman also run fake survey companies
    and delete everything except outlying data to fake their reports
    to add legitimacy to their trolling campaigns.

    The US trolling companies now set up branch offices
    in foreign countries like Netherlands
    and UK to post illegally and subversively what is
    handed down the chain of command leading all the way to
    fake charities and marketing trolls
    shielded illegally behind big corporations in US.
    Wikileaks tells us 5% of all US diplomatic activity is to
    do with Appil and Micorshaft trolls and their
    trolling armies controlling US diplomatic services
    at tax payer expense as their personal puppets.

    There is NO MANDATE when fake asstroturfers are driving
    the agenda.

    The situation is so bad, it has spread into the military.
    No one now knows who drives what agenda because
    there is no traceability.

    The fscking military, politicians, enviro nuts, music mafia,
    using asstroturfing technology need the riot act read to them.

    The situation is so incomprehensible that
    the US has been declared falsely that it is the most charitable nation in
    the world when at the same time 3 million US families
    are living in shelter, and most of that charity money is fake
    money being diverted from corporations into the coffers of asstroturfing
    and PR companies. What would you do if you were
    forced into a shelter and all your charity
    money was stolen from your charity?
    You are down and they still want to steal YOUR CHARITY MONEY?!??
    Thats right you would tell them NEVER and tell
    them fsck off in no uncertain terms and get the law changed
    to make it a criminal offense to steal charity money
    or spend it on anything other than 100% certified peer reviewed charity
    without kickbacks, without creative accounting and
    without morally unjust criminal behavior within
    the charity system.

    Most of the money funneled through
    charities never make it to charitable causes in the USA.
    It is stolen by politicians and pressure groups to cover
    up their fake funding routes for asstroturfing.
    They are used to it so we got to get over it?

    No thanks!!!!

    Not a single politician, embassy staff or military has a
    mandate for one single political agenda because no one
    knows who is funding who and who's agenda is real
    and whose agenda is fake. Every signature collected
    is one more fake signature for a mandate written out by
    asstroturfers.

    Asstroturfing through charities undermines society,
    and all the nations dealing with US
    and it must stop because no one in US has any legitimate
    mandates for any of this activity any more.

    If they have it, then should display their mandate
    with pride, and show where the support had come from
    and if any of it is through charities, then the
    whole mandate is faked because charity status is being
    abused to hide funding routes for corporate asstroturfing.



    Asstroturfer offerings
    ----------------------


    I've just read the contents of the fbo.gov solicitation RTB220610

    The US government wants asstroturfers and with it sophisticated
    asstroturfing technology to drown out democratic free speech,
    and then hide from those whom it seeks to victimize.

    It was point no.3 that caught my eye:
    0003- Static IP Address Management

    What that means is the same as what I've been saying for a while about
    doofi, flatcake and clog are true.

    They are not individuals but a whole asstroturfing team
    behind each sock puppet.

    There isn't enough memory between the sock operators to know
    or remember what had been said earlier so you know the
    conversations are being typed out by multiple individuals
    impersonating each other.
    It was notable gaffs by the goofy doofy sock that first gave it away.

    The asstroturfing teams had already gone into government and offered them
    consulting services about what technology and asstroturfing
    practices were out there for fbo.gov to decide what they will
    purchase in solicitation RTB220610. Burson-Marstelar
    won the contract performing all the activities
    required in the solicitation with fantastic usenet software
    tools for targeting individuals and trolling 24/7
    and all built in outsourced India.


    ----------------------



    https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportu...d660336be91552fe8c1a51bacb2&tab=core&_cview=1

    Solicitation Number: RTB220610
    Notice Type: Sources Sought
    Synopsis: Added: 2010-06-22 13:42:52Jun 22, 2010 1:42 pm
    Modified: 2010-06-22 14:07:11Jun 22, 2010 2:07 pmTrack Changes

    0001- Online Persona Management Service.

    50 User Licenses, 10 Personas per user. Software will
    allow 10 personas per user, replete with background,
    history, supporting details, and cyber presences
    that are technically, culturally and geographically
    consistent. Individual applications will enable an
    operator to exercise a number of different online
    persons from the same workstation and without fear
    of being discovered by sophisticated adversaries.
    Personas must be able to appear to originate in
    nearly any part of the world and can interact through
    conventional online services and social media platforms.
    The service includes a user friendly application
    environment to maximize the user's situational
    awareness by displaying real-time local information.


    0002- Secure Virtual Private Network (VPN).

    1 each VPN provides the ability for users to
    daily and automatically obtain
    randomly selected IP addresses through
    which they can access the internet. The daily
    rotation of the user s IP address prevents compromise
    during observation of likely or targeted web sites
    or services, while hiding the existence of the
    operation. In addition, may provide traffic mixing,
    blending the user s traffic with traffic from multitudes
    of users from outside the organization. This traffic
    blending provides excellent cover and powerful deniability.
    Anonymizer Enterprise Chameleon or equal


    0003- Static IP Address Management.


    :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D


    50 each Licence protects the identity of government
    agencies and enterprise organizations. Enables organizations
    to manage their persistent online personas by assigning
    static IP addresses to each persona. Individuals
    can perform static impersonations, which allow
    them to look like the same person over time. Also allows
    organizations that frequent same site/service often to
    easily switch IP addresses to look like ordinary
    users as opposed to one organization.
    Anonymizer IP Mapper License or equal

    :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D


    0004- Virtual Private Servers,

    CONUS. 1 each Provides CONUS or OCONUS points of
    presence locations that are setup for each customer
    based on the geographic area of operations the
    customer is operating within and which allow a
    customer?s online persona(s) to appear to originate
    from. Ability to provide virtual private servers that
    are procured using commercial hosting centers around
    the world and which are established anonymously. Once
    procured, the geosite is incorporated into the network
    and integrated within the customers environment and
    ready for use by the customer. Unless specifically
    designated as shared, locations are dedicated for use
    by each customer and never shared among other customers.
    Anonymizer Annual Dedicated CONUS Light Geosite or equal


    0005- Virtual Private Servers, OCONUS.

    8 Each Provides CONUS or OCONUS points of presence
    locations that are setup for each customer based on
    the geographic area of operations the customer is
    operating within and which allow a customer?s
    online persona(s) to appear to
    originate from. Ability to provide virtual private
    servers that are procured using commercial hosting
    centers around the world and which are established
    anonymously. Once procured, the geosite is incorporated
    into the network and integrated within the customers
    environment and ready for use by the customer. Unless
    specifically designated as shared, locations are dedicated
    for use by each customer and never shared among other
    customers. Anonymizer Annual Dedicated OCONUS Light
    Geosite or equal


    0006- Remote Access Secure Virtual Private Network.

    1 each Secure Operating Environment provides a reliable
    and protected computing environment from which to stage
    and conduct operations. Every session uses a clean
    Virtual Machine (VM) image. The solution is accessed
    through sets of Virtual Private Network (VPN) devices
    located at each Customer facility. The fully-managed
    VDI (Virtual Desktop Infrastructure) is an environment
    that allows users remote access from their desktop into
    a VM. Upon session termination, the VM is deleted and
    any virus, worm, or malicious software that the user
    inadvertently downloaded is destroyed. Anonymizer
    Virtual Desktop Infrastructure (VDI) Solution or equal.


    Contracting Office Address:
    2606 Brown Pelican Ave.
    MacDill AFB, Florida 33621-5000
    United States
    Place of Performance:
    Performance will be at MacDIll AFB, Kabul, Afghanistan and Baghdad, Iraq.
    MacDill AFB , Florida 33679
    United States

    Primary Point of Contact.:
    Russell Beasley,
    Contracting Officer

    Phone: (813) 828-4729
    Fax: (813) 828-5111
     
    7, May 14, 2014
    #12
  13. On 14/05/2014 15:50, 7 wrote:
    A load of abusive twaddle....

    Told you so!
     
    George Weston, May 14, 2014
    #13
  14. Instant killfile fodder.
     
    Mike Tomlinson, May 14, 2014
    #14
    1. Advertisements

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.