Linux has a long way to go before it becomes the major OS

Discussion in 'Linux Networking' started by Guest, Jan 22, 2004.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

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  2. Guest

    Fred Emmott Guest

    oke doke...

    after checking the article actually exists at the given url:

    "Now, if only they could get the word processor's basic "cut and paste"
    feature to work."

    1) I just copied and pasted that from the article
    2) Either he is just making it up, or he doesnt know how to use his mouse,
    or is assuming the keyboard shortcuts are the same as windows - which they
    are if you tell it to - he probably doesn't know how
    3) GPM works for just about anything - select text, middle click where you
    want to paste it.

    "It's a big pile of lumber with no agreed-upon standards," complained White,
    president of St. Paul, Minnesota-based software company CodeWeavers.

    LSB, FHS etc - united linux is a proposed standard (although not popular atm
    as SCO is a member, however so is SUSE)
    how about windows's open standards?
    1) Active Directory
    2) NTFS
    etc

    "Linux desktops need a little more work to be consistent," said Jack
    Messman, chairman and chief executive of Novell Inc. "I don't know how much
    of that will come about this year."

    Consistency - just look at SUSE or RedHat bluecurve - how more consistent
    can you get?

    Windows - most popular "home user" programs are skinned, to be inconsistent
    with their desktop eg winamp, even windows media player!

    "Its users are required to share the computer code they create."

    Bullshit. It's users are required to share the computer code they create
    only if they CHOOSE to license it under a gpl-style license.

    "Office documents created using Microsoft Windows PCs can be saved and
    reopened on Linux PCs without suffering the sort of software conflicts that
    cause programs to crash. This mundane compatibility is a crucial test of
    Linux's viability as a potential replacement for Windows. "

    More specifically - "software conflicts that cause programs to crash" -
    what is this to do with running MS Office? i have never had a problem with
    an MS office document in OOo 1.1

    "Market research company International Data Corp., of Framingham,
    Massachusetts, estimates that paid shipments of Linux rose to 2.8 percent
    of desktop operating systems in 2002, up from 1.7 percent two years
    earlier. But that is still below the approximately 3 percent share of No. 2
    ranked Apple Computer Inc., which more than a decade ago gave up trying to
    compete directly with Microsoft. "

    note "paid shipments" - ie this is completely ignoring people who have:
    1) Done an FTP install of something like SuSE
    2) Downloaded ISO images
    3) Installed from a friends cd


    Looks like the author has no idea what they are talking about.

    Fred
     
    Fred Emmott, Jan 22, 2004
    #2
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  3. Yup. Looks like a bunch of spam to me alright.
    Who's paid the author: CodeWeavers or Xandros ?

    FWIW: i have been useing either: Slackware, Debian, Mandrake, SuSE or
    RedHat Linux distros for some years now. And don't have _any_ of the
    problems the article talks about ...

    Ofcource, i'm _not_ looking for some kind of click-a-di-click MS-Windows
    on steroids, MS-Office running hybrid. Rather something that works for me.

    ATM, "desktop" apps: FVWM2, gvim, Xman, Mozilla, Pan, XMMS and Xine.
    working fine!
    Please, stick with plain text - in these groups.

    [ ... ]
     
    Menno Duursma, Jan 22, 2004
    #3
  4. Guest

    Guy Macon Guest

    This was crossposted to:

    alt.os.linux.slackware
    alt.os.linux.suse
    comp.os.linux.hardware
    comp.os.linux.networking
    comp.os.linux.x
    comp.os.linux.security

    As far as I can tell, it is off-topic in every newsgroup it was
    posted to.

    I can't speak for other groups, but could those who reply please
    trim alt.os.linux.slackware from the newsgroups line? Thanks!

    (Followups set to comp.os.linux.advocacy)
     
    Guy Macon, Jan 22, 2004
    #4
  5. ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.hardware.]
    [and so on, for over eighteen-hundred friggin' lines of marked-up text]

    Was that really necessary? Couldn't you have summarized and provided a
    simple link to the article? Or is that beyond the capabilities of the
    cut-n-paste generation?
     
    John Thompson, Jan 24, 2004
    #5
  6. Guest

    Narsil Guest

    The author may not have any idea, but he is right.

    Until linux is as simple to use as windows, it will never take off.

    Now, before anyone tries to tell me that *I* don't know what I'm
    talking about either, here's a case in point. In windows, the process
    of installing takes (on my part) a minute or two at the most. I've
    spent the last week or so, on and off trying to install mplayer, and I
    still can't do it, and I still don't know why.

    See this thread for more info....
    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...=40101f73.8755188%40news21.on.aibn.com&rnum=1

    I'm not saying that linux (any distro) is a bad thing, but until it
    can be used by your average windows user, without having to ask a guru
    how the hell you do stuff(like installing packages), Linux will never
    rival Windows on the desktop.

    I want to like linux, but at the moment it's rather hard.

    (A rather frutrated) TomN
     
    Narsil, Jan 24, 2004
    #6
  7. I feel sorry for your troubles.

    All the software install for me on my gentoo box has been

    emerge <required package>

    That's all. This even beats those damn installers that winblows has.
    Winblows installer don't tell you what it is doing, emerge tells me
    exactly where it's at.
     
    Pankajkumar Chauhan, Jan 24, 2004
    #7
  8. What many people fail to realize is that the objective of Linux is not
    to maximize the number of installations.
    mplayer is one of the trickier programs to do anything at all with.
    If all you want to do is play some movies, go get xine.
     
    =?iso-8859-1?q?M=E5ns_Rullg=E5rd?=, Jan 24, 2004
    #8
  9. Clinging to sanity, (Narsil) mumbled into her beard:
    It already _has_ taken off, as many of us have been making it useful
    for a goodly decade now.

    It is useful to us irrespective of whether someone wants to make up
    some "fight" between it and Microsoft, or whether or not you find it
    useful yet.

    (A rather frutrated) Christopher Browne
     
    Christopher Browne, Jan 25, 2004
    #9
  10. No, it most certainly has not taken off, although the ibm campaign
    should make some people see it as an alternative server.
    But the issue is whether linux is better in all respects to
    microsoft. Many on here will argue that it is.

    cordially, as always,

    rm
     
    Russell Morse, Jan 25, 2004
    #10
  11. Yes, it taken off since, it was first released on the internet; and it's
    network aware x-window system is definitely better then WinDOS. Windows
    is beautyfull on the face and ugly internally, whereas Linux is open,
    transparent, smart, efficient and what not ...

    Plz read http://anu.homelinux.net/watch/?linux.html

    I don't hate Windows, but love and use Linux; both as a desktop even on
    my Dell Inspiron 4150 notebook, home PC and many servers at my work places.
     
    Balwinder Singh Dheeman, Jan 25, 2004
    #11
  12. That part right there indicates that you're a troll. It takes far
    longer than that just to install an application - any application. I
    don't think you can even create the useless user login that doesn't
    impact who can actually use the computer in that amount of time...

    (I exclude actually installing windows itself because many people
    don't - they just take whatever the computer manufacturer gives them
    and think that that's all there is.)

    So - now that you've shot your credibility, go away.

    Mike-

    Mornings: Evolution in action. Only the grumpy will survive.
    -----------------------------------------------------

    Please note - Due to the intense volume of spam, we have
    installed site-wide spam filters at catherders.com. If
    email from you bounces, try non-HTML, non-encoded,
    non-attachments.
     
    Michael W. Cocke, Jan 25, 2004
    #12
  13. Unless you're talking about installing Windows itself, which can take the
    better part of an hour, requires seveal reboots, and often fails to find
    or properly configure for your hardware.

    Any relatively modern linux distribution will install *MUCH* more
    quickly and easily than Windows.
     
    John Thompson, Jan 25, 2004
    #13
  14. Guest

    Paul Guest

    I can second that. Installed a new ISDN modem this side and eventually just
    gave up trying to install it in XP. WTH I only go online with Linux in any
    way so just could not be botherd to do it. Funny thing about windows..after
    you stopped using it..you dont really miss it at all
     
    Paul, Jan 25, 2004
    #14
  15. Guest

    jmw Guest

    Narsil wrote:
    [...]
    [...]

    some will argue that a major reason we all have so much trouble with
    hacking, trojans, viri, whathaveyou, is that windoze also facilitates
    'get on the net in a newyork minute' and people can engage in
    minute-brained activity.

    in some respects it may be good that Linux isn't as easy to install
    or use as is windoze.
     
    jmw, Jan 25, 2004
    #15
  16. Guest

    Fish Guest

    That's a myth, I'm afraid. First, if the machine has any unusual
    hardware, Linux may well struggle to recognize it. Second, the fun only
    starts after the installation which is admittedly pretty quick. But once
    the stuff is installed, the new user is immediately thrown into the deep
    end when trying to configure his installation for the first time because
    Linux still lacks many of the easy system configuration tools Windows
    users take for granted. I mean, with SuSE take two examples: a new user
    first has to work out that Yast means Control Panels (or bits of them,
    anyway) and then that Sax2 means Display. He may then also find he can't
    play DVDs (SuSE) or MP3s (Red Hat), with perhaps no references to them
    in the manuals, and is presented with several different configurators
    for his sound card but no instructions on which one to use. While
    fiddling with all the above, the new users has constantly to log in and
    out on the gui as the root user because he doesn't yet know how to use
    the console. None of this is remotely intuitive unless you know already
    know what to do. The Linux learning curve remains extremely steep.

    :)

    Fish
     
    Fish, Jan 25, 2004
    #16
  17. Guest

    Ben Measures Guest

    Hurrah for "Troll Goggles" (patent pending)

    --
    Ben M.

    ----------------
    What are Software Patents for?
    To protect the small enterprise from bigger companies.

    What do Software Patents do?
    In its current form, they protect only companies with
    big legal departments as they:
    a.) Patent everything no matter how general
    b.) Sue everybody. Even if the patent can be argued
    invalid, small companies can ill-afford the
    typical $500k cost of a law-suit (not to mention
    years of harassment).

    Don't let them take away your right to program
    whatever you like. Make a stand on Software Patents
    before its too late.

    Read about the ongoing battle at http://swpat.ffii.org/
    ----------------
     
    Ben Measures, Jan 26, 2004
    #17
  18. Guest

    Ben Measures Guest

    Heres the simple conclusion I came to:

    If you're easily daunted when you operate computers, use Windows. You'll
    come across fewer problems with Windows but it will frustrate even your
    expert friends in their attempts to sort the 'nasty' problems.

    If you stick a big two fingers up at computer problems and aren't afraid
    to beat them into submission, use Linux. You might have to fight a
    continual struggle, but its downhill all the way.

    --
    Ben M.

    ----------------
    What are Software Patents for?
    To protect the small enterprise from bigger companies.

    What do Software Patents do?
    In its current form, they protect only companies with
    big legal departments as they:
    a.) Patent everything no matter how general
    b.) Sue everybody. Even if the patent can be argued
    invalid, small companies can ill-afford the
    typical $500k cost of a law-suit (not to mention
    years of harassment).

    Don't let them take away your right to program
    whatever you like. Make a stand on Software Patents
    before its too late.

    Read about the ongoing battle at http://swpat.ffii.org/
    ----------------
     
    Ben Measures, Jan 26, 2004
    #18
  19. This is ok for hobbyists. But for professionals time is money.
    Professionals don't have time to google for answers to questions
    which shouldn't have to be asked.
    Nobody has time to fiddle with meaningless shit. You don't learn
    anything about the system when you learn how to install programs. All
    you are learning is how to install programs. And since the point
    of installing the program is not installing the program, learning
    anymore than you have to about installing programs is a total waste
    of time.

    cordially, as always,

    rm
     
    Russell Morse, Jan 26, 2004
    #19
  20. Guest

    Ben Measures Guest

    I agree. If you want to do everything but get asked no questions the
    (security/access) restrictions will be non-existant.

    Paraphrasing, if you want to go everywhere and do everything no
    questions asked, you must first destroy the city walls and fire the police.

    --
    Ben M.

    ----------------
    What are Software Patents for?
    To protect the small enterprise from bigger companies.

    What do Software Patents do?
    In its current form, they protect only companies with
    big legal departments as they:
    a.) Patent everything no matter how general
    b.) Sue everybody. Even if the patent can be argued
    invalid, small companies can ill-afford the
    typical $500k cost of a law-suit (not to mention
    years of harassment).

    Don't let them take away your right to program
    whatever you like. Make a stand on Software Patents
    before its too late.

    Read about the ongoing battle at http://swpat.ffii.org/
    ----------------
     
    Ben Measures, Jan 26, 2004
    #20
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