For historical reasons, I've been asked to look at the WiFi coverage in a lodge in Scotland. Briefly, these reasons are: I was staying there two years ago, while in between houses, and, it being discovered that I was a retired IT professional, was asked to look into their system in return for some free B&L. Although the hardware they had already acquired was not what I would have recommended, they already had it, and it was working fairly well at the time, so I made the best of the job that I could using it, and before leaving checked that WiFi was accessible in every room. However, since then, breakdowns and changes made by well-meaning but sometimes unauthorised individuals have rendered the main building's coverage almost non-existent. So, remembering that I'd got it all going pretty well before, they're paying me to take another look at it. When the lodge is full in peak season, there are about 100 guests and staff. There is an old main building, having relatively WiFi opaque thick stone walls, with 10 guest rooms and a couple of outlying staff rooms off the back. There is also an annexe of about 20 rooms in a seperate modern extension. I presume that the router that I set up successfully two years ago in the main building must have failed after a while, because it has been replaced by a 2009 model Netgear DGN2000 model, a puny 2.4GHz only, which gets sucked up by the stone walls. However, perhaps surprisingly, the latter building actually remains fairly well-covered by the same 2.4GHz Belkin SOHo router that previously I configured as an access point. The main problems that I have identified with the system are: Almost no coverage in the main building where ... The weak signal is vulnerable to interference from ... Neighbouring systems on the same channel and ... Guests using WiFi tethering and ... A cordless phone system. Total bandwidth of the ADSL connection is just 5Mbps. My inclination is to go for 5GHz 802.11n/ac APs. For the main building, possibly one on each floor, though I'll try a single one on the middle floor first, and, even though it's currently the best served part of the lodge, I think an upgrade to 5GHz desirable in the Annexe as well. But, actually, although ALL advice is welcome, I'm fairly confident that if need be I can make my own way to sorting out the coverage, and it's not really that per se that I'm seeking advice about here. The wider situation I've found is this ... Although it has very recently been announced that FTTC should not be more than about six months away, the proprietor already has had three additional ADSL lines installed, intending to have load-balancing equipment installed from SharedBand, so that the three lines can function as one almost three times the capacity of each. SharedBand have quoted them a fairly hefty sum up front, for hardware configured by themselves with their own proprietory load-balancing software, with ongoing rental charges for use of the same. However, a seemingly knowledgeable person staying there volunteers that this is unnecessary. He says that all is that is needed is three off-the-shelf ADSL modems, he suggests Draytek Vigor 120s ... http://www.draytek.co.uk/products/business/vigor-120 .... and a load-balancing router, say a Draytek Vigor 3900 ... http://www.draytek.co.uk/products/business/vigor-3900 (Another third alternative has been quoted for satellite links, but, due to expense and latency, that's rather on the back burner now.) Although I believe I understand the principles of what is being suggested in each case, this is not what I was called in to check out and is not really my area of expertise. Unless independently someone here can make a good case for the more expensive SharedBand option with ongoing costs, my own inclination is to advise the cheaper option suggested by our volunteering guest, as he seems sound, knowledgeable, experienced, and trustworthy. But what do others more experienced with these particular setups think? Also, wrt to the coverage, this same guy suggests Cisco Meraki APs, though I wonder if perhaps they are overkill for the situation, particularly as they are quite expensive up front and there are also ongoing costs to use a Cisco management service. Again, advice welcomed from any experienced individuals. https://meraki.cisco.com/products/wireless TIA -- ======================================================== Please always reply to ng as the email in this post's header does not exist. Or use a contact address at: http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/JavaJive.html http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/Macfarlane.html
"Java Jive" said successfully two years ago in the main building must have failed after a while, because it has been replaced by a 2009 model Netgear DGN2000 model, a puny 2.4GHz only, which gets sucked up by the stone walls. However, perhaps surprisingly, the latter building actually remains fairly well-covered by the same 2.4GHz Belkin SOHo router that previously I configured as an access point. {...} building, possibly one on each floor, though I'll try a single one on the middle floor first, and, even though it's currently the best served part of the lodge, I think an upgrade to 5GHz desirable in the Annexe as well. What about guests who don't have the latest and greatest and so can't access 5GHz at all?
Sorry, didn't make that clear. We'd probably leave the existing routers in place to cater for legacy kit, and broadcast additional SSIDs ending in 5s for the new APs. We'd pin up notices in strategic places advising guests and staff that, if they can see a SSID ending in a 5, to choose that preferentially. Another options might be to configure APs to try and set up 5GHz preferentially, and only fall back to 2.4GHz on failure, but I'd have to look into the feasibility. AIR, it's the client that initiates contact, so that may not be possible. -- ======================================================== Please always reply to ng as the email in this post's header does not exist. Or use a contact address at: http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/JavaJive.html http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/Macfarlane.html
Java Jive wrote: [snip] Your first objective is to set up remote access so you can monitor what is going on. So you need at least one ADSL (in due course VDSL) service with a static IP address, a static IP address at your home location, and a router at each end that will implement a LAN-to-LAN VPN. A Draytek router (at each end) as the knowledgeable person suggests will suffice. Load balancing will probably be OK. The expensive option from SharedBand will probably implement the multiple connections with bonding so the site has a single IP address. This might be useful if the business needed to download large single files, but for hotel guests this would be overkill. Some websites (banks, insurance companies, https://store.exertis.co.uk/ ) don't like traffic in a single session to come from different IP address so the load balancing might require careful tailoring. May only be relevant to the hotel's "office" computers. It may well be that the limiting factor experienced by guests is poor WiFi rather than the 5Mbits/sec ADSL. Your real problem is the WiFi. Provided that each access point is cabled back to the router then you stand a chance of making it work. But if each AP connects by wireless to another and the traffic passes through several before reaching the router, then at each AP your throughput halves. So Cat5 cable to each strategic location is therefore essential. While you are installing the cable you might as well connect up every guest room and all the public rooms. At least install all the cabling in ducts or ceiling voids, and leave tails to run into guest rooms as and when they are redecorated. As you have found, WiFi signals often don't pass through walls. So don't bother with a wireless router - use one that provides the best connection to ADSL (and can be reconfigured for VDSL) and place it close to the incoming phone line. Use Cat5 cable to connect it to a suitable switch then to all the APs. Use Cat5 cable from this switch to the "office" machines so they are reliable and independent of WiFi. Several makes of AP allow central management - this will be essential - again so you can see what is going on. Also the network switch should be managed, implement VLANs (so as to isolate guest traffic from the hotel's office traffic), provide PoE, and both it and the router should be run from a UPS. Use something like INSSIDer to measure WiFi signals so you have an objective assessment - and be prepared to put an AP in every room if necessary. I repeat, WiFi signals often don't pass through walls; it's a hopelessly oversold technology. You should then be able to see what is going on, identify when somebody unplugs something that they should not have, and potentially block a rogue machine from sending spam. I reckon all that I've suggested can be done for much less than the SharedBand quote. Do let us know how you get on ...
The 5GHz stuff will not travel as far as 2.4GHz stuff through the walls and floors so you might be shooting yourself in the foot so to speak. The Draytek Vigor 3900 sounds ideal but I'd stick with the already installed modems unless there is a real advantage to changing them. I've no experience with any of these though.
That was my understanding. The great thing about 5GHz is that the spectrum isn't as crowded as the 2.4GHz - which may not be a problem up there. Andy
I don't think the spectrum being crowded is going to be a problem, what was it - 3 5meg links and 20 guests, that's going to seem crowded to all of them
Apologies for not replying before, had my laptop to bits to fix it ... I don't think so. This is a one-off job (or at least it is supposed to be, but perhaps only until something breaks and/or someone meddles again)! People are downloading more and more video these days, so may not be as overkill as all that. I think they would probably want to keep the original single line open for the office, so that would solve that problem. But thanks for the pointer to the single IP though, knowledgeable guest didn't mention that particular weakness in his suggestion! I'll explain the possible consequences of the cheaper option, and let them choose. Certainly it is in the main-building. The changes that were made between my original testing two or three years ago and now have effectively broken the service over most of the building. Most of the weekend I stayed there, I couldn't get a service on the top floor, and when briefly I did, it failed the moment another guest set up WiFi tethering. Yes, I was aware of that, which is another reason I queried the Cisco model suggested, because knowledgeable guest seemed to be suggesting relaying them. I suppose there'd never need be more than one or two hops, but my approach is that if you are going to put, say, an AP on every floor, then you do the job properly and cable them. I can suggest that, but I'm pretty sure that they would want neither the disruption nor the expense. Yes, absolutely. Yes, though I haven't actually been asked to look at the office machines. Again, I suspect office traffic will be on another line anyway. Again, I can suggest a UPS, but these can only do so much, and extended power cuts are common in the area, so I'm not sure they'll think there's much to be gained! Thus far I've been using a Samsung app "WiFi Analyzer" to give an objective assessment. I don't know what its claims to absolute accuracy are, but the relative results room to room agree completely with user experience. Also, I was able to take snapshots of its results to put in a presentation I gave to them at the end of the weekend. Again, I'm not expecting to manage this from afar. Thanks for all your very helpful suggestions. One last thing, do you or anyone have suggestions for make/model of AP? -- ======================================================== Please always reply to ng as the email in this post's header does not exist. Or use a contact address at: http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/JavaJive.html http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/Macfarlane.html
I thought that I'd read that 5GHz was slightly better in that respect, but anyway, that's not so important. The really important factors are: 2.4GHz band is very crowded in the neighbourhood. Currently, 5GHz is not permanently used at all. 5GHz is more resilient to interference from, say, tethering. -- ======================================================== Please always reply to ng as the email in this post's header does not exist. Or use a contact address at: http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/JavaJive.html http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/Macfarlane.html
Then don't get involved. Help the client find somebody local who understands all these issues, and can provide proper support. They need somebody who can resolve guest problems while the guest is resident, so remote management and evenings/weekend support is well worthwhile. A knowlegeable and trained member of the hotel staff would also be an advantage, so the support company gets reliable information about problems. You may be right ... If so, then have it totally separate, not shared with any bonding arrangements. However, it is guests that will also want to use banking sites - so some careful preparation will be worthwhile. [snip] Point out to the client that if they want it to work reliably then they should do it properly. Do they have a closure period (out of season?) when such work could be done? As I suggested, WiFi is a hopelessly oversold technology, but it ***can*** be made to work fairly well with the right infrastructure. The mistake most clients make is to fail to understand what the technology can (and can't) do for them. Your responsibility as an advisor is to ensure that they are made aware of all the issues. So suggest you do look at the office machines also. You might mention security. IP cameras, temperature sensors, and the like can all be connected to the LAN. Power cuts can often break bits of the network because things come up in an unstructured sequence. The office computers should have UPS support - even more so because of what you say about extended power cuts. Have you discussed backup? Relative accuracy is fine ... I would suggest the AP900-K from Draytek, partly for the simultaneous dual-band. I think they can be managed from some of their more modern routers. Well worth research into other centrally managed devices. Some have the ability to tailor signal strength and channel to avoid mutual interference while providing optimum power to the connected clients.
