Kindle probs with MiFi

Discussion in 'Wireless Internet' started by ps56k, Jul 8, 2013.

  1. ps56k

    ps56k Guest

    I've seen this mentioned over on the Amazon Kindle forums...
    Folks are unable to connect their Kindle ereaders or Fire tablets
    to certain brands of MiFi units...

    Any thoughts on why this might be happening ?
     
    ps56k, Jul 8, 2013
    #1
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  2. Possibly DHCP failure, 802.11Nl, and standby recovery. I don't have a
    VZW MiFi for testing.

    I was at Best Buy last week and found that none of the various Kindles
    on display would connect to any of their in house Wi-Fi systems.
    However, they would connect if I power cycled the Kindle. I
    eventually got the attention of one of the Geek Squad techs, who said
    that they had to use a static IP address because the DCHP client in
    the Kindle is problematic.

    My neighbors brats received various Kindles for graduation. They
    wouldn't work with their also new Belkin router (forgot model number),
    but worked fine with my DD-WRT Buffalo and some older ones that I
    tried. So, I brought home about 6 routers and tried them with a
    Kindle Fire. No problems with the older routers. Anything with
    802.11N enabled had problems but would eventually connect if I tried
    multiple times. I tried sniffing the traffic over the air and suspect
    that the problem is the DHCP client in the Kindles. A static IP
    address worked by not reliably for some unknown reason.

    As I mentioned, I could connect to most of the various wireless
    routers exactly once with the Kindle Fire. However, when the Kindle
    went into standby, the only way I could recover the connection was to
    power down and then back on. I think I can safely say that the
    problem is in the Kindle Fire, and not the various routers.

    I can do some more testing if you're desperate, but I'm on vacation
    (house arrest) this week and don't want to do anything that looks like
    useful work.

    This is to the Samsung WIS09ABGN LinkStick:
    <http://www.amazon.com/Kindle-wifi-c...W98HSXM6ZJK/TxQSLC7B3RKOO0/1?asin=B0021LA1BE>
     
    Jeff Liebermann, Jul 8, 2013
    #2
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  3. ps56k

    DevilsPGD Guest

    In the last episode of <>,
    Problematic is a generous word for it; it's downright terrible. And the
    DHCP client itself isn't the only issue, it's got some network stack
    issues (some resolved, some not)
     
    DevilsPGD, Jul 9, 2013
    #3
  4. Groan. The big problem for me is that the various Kindle devices do
    NOT support WPA2-RADIUS encryption or EAP certificate based
    authentication. That causes problems in hospitals, skools, large
    corporations, and some of my schemes.

    Incidentally, I sorta blundered across this site:
    <http://www.lab126.com>
    Looks like Kindle development.

    I also tried to find Kindle devices in the wi-fi alliance search pages
    and found only something called the Whitney reader.
    <http://certifications.wi-fi.org/pdf_certificate.php?cid=WFA12463>
    Nothing else. Maybe there's a problem getting certified?
     
    Jeff Liebermann, Jul 9, 2013
    #4
  5. ps56k

    miso Guest

    What Buffalo are you running DD-WRT on. I often get asked
    recommendations for routers and I have a sample of one that works.
    [Works means no periodic booting.]

    I never knew Kindles were picky. They have been around enough that you
    would think the bugs are out of them. [I'm still getting my books used,
    though do read technical pdfs on a tablet.]
     
    miso, Jul 10, 2013
    #5
  6. Ummm...
    <http://home.learnbydestroying.com:8080>
    Buffalo WHR-HP-G54
    Uptime about 20 days. No spontaneous reboots or hangs. I'm not sure
    if build 14896 is totally stable because the PPTP VPN daemon often
    dies and has to be restarted from the command line. Yep, it's dead
    right now. Maybe a later build will have fixed that.

    Much as I like this particular router, it's old and getting difficult
    to find. I also prefer a router with 802.11n capability, which this
    one lacks.
    I don't know much about Kindle, but it looks like whomever built them
    for Amazon decided to do everything themselves and from scratch. The
    possible lack of Wi-Fi Alliance certification is an important clue.
     
    Jeff Liebermann, Jul 10, 2013
    #6
  7. ps56k

    miso Guest

    There is some company that will decode PPTP captures for a fee. ;-) It
    is not suggested to be used for secure coms.

    I'm on a Buffalo WZR-HP-G450H. Must be for a year by now. So far so
    good. The 2wire locked up a few days ago. Red light flashing. But the
    Buffalo keeps going.

    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2403697,00.asp

    At the time I bought mine, the dual band version had all sorts of
    complaints. That was one of the reasons I got the single band version.
    That and if it sucked, I would be out less money. ;-)

    These magazine do all sorts of tests except the one that matters:
    uptime. Torture it with bit torrent. On a LAN, they should be able to
    get a few PC and flog the thing.

    Most people only bit torrent over the internet, but there is nothing
    stopping someone setting up private torrents for testing.

    A friend swears if you run multiple PCs on bit torrent, and then make
    sure each machine can see each other, the torrent gets done faster.
    Personally, I think this is nuts.
     
    miso, Jul 10, 2013
    #7
  8. ps56k

    Char Jackson Guest

    Sounds perfectly logical to me, assuming you have Internet bandwidth to
    spare. What am I missing?
     
    Char Jackson, Jul 10, 2013
    #8
  9. I know. I much prefer IPSEC but the CPU overhead is far to much for
    the bottom of the line routers that I'm using.

    Incidentally, for commodity wireless, I'm using refurbished Linksys
    EA2700 on eBay for about $40. Quite stable, no surprises, and
    tolerable feature set.
    Nice. I like the antenna farm and the stock DD-WRT firmware.
    Dual band has been a problem for me with literally every router I've
    tried. Sometimes, the problems are just plain stupid. For example,
    the EA2700 I mentioned will bridge between 2.4 and 5.7Ghz, but the
    bridging performance is totally dismal, while the performance on
    either 2.4 or 5.7GHz at the same time, comes to an almost complete
    stop. As soon as I stop moving data via the bridge, normal
    performance returns. Looks like someone didn't do much testing.
    I use a MAC address spoofer program that keeps generating new
    connections until the router hangs. Most of what I've tested these
    days will discard old MAC addresses quite nicely. I've run this test
    on some of my routers without any problem. However, that doesn't test
    buffer exhaustion, which is the problem with BitTorrent. Too many
    simultaneous connections, gobbling too many buffers. I can look
    inside the box, determine the size of the working RAM, and make a good
    guess as to how many connections it can handle. I then set my Torrent
    client to somewhat less, and it never hangs. I don't do much
    downloading with BitTorrent (mostly uTorrent) and have never hung any
    of my routers except when I had too many connections going.

    If you want to break things:
    <http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/lanwan/lanwan-howto/31103-how-we-test-hardware-routers-revision-3>
    Try the max connections tool at:
    <http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/mydownloads/max_session_tool.zip>
    Extra credit for running it between two wireless connections. I think
    I burned out a WRT54G running DD-WRT doing that repeatedly because it
    was saving the MAC-to-IP address table in NVRAM. Oops.
    Well, if the internet bandwidth is large (i.e. cable modem), and the
    machines are old and slow, that seems possible. Otherwise, I don't
    think so.
     
    Jeff Liebermann, Jul 10, 2013
    #9
  10. ps56k

    miso Guest

    Well, if the internet bandwidth is large (i.e. cable modem), and the
    Oh, the machines are old and he has plenty of them. [Garage sales.] That
    might be it. The BBC stuff I download (er allegedly download, neither
    confirming nor denying here) is generally at the max of my crappy
    1.5mbps DSL. Downloading linux via bit torrent always maxes out my DSL.
     
    miso, Jul 10, 2013
    #10
  11. ps56k

    DevilsPGD Guest

    Amazon doesn't care, even if you manage to make it through the "Reboot
    your router" level of customer support (which I did)

    If you really need to download books on an unsupported wifi connection,
    the 3G option isn't that much more expensive and it solves the problem
    entirely by taking the need for wifi out of the picture.
     
    DevilsPGD, Jul 10, 2013
    #11
  12. ps56k

    DevilsPGD Guest

    In the last episode of <>,
    Not much. The machines will detect each other locally and will exchange
    data amongst themselves, so this technique won't directly hurt you.

    It also won't help you if you tune your torrent settings (number of
    connections, simultaneous uploads/downloads, speed throttles, etc)
    appropriately. If you don't, then torrenting from multiple machines may
    help.

    The one big real benefit is if you torrent from very slow hard drives,
    or insist on running too many connections, have too little RAM for
    cache, have your torrent client flushing to disk constantly, etc, in
    which case more machines torrenting will split the load across multiple
    spindles. Torrenting to a faster performing disk will solve the problem
    much more cheaply.
     
    DevilsPGD, Jul 10, 2013
    #12
  13. Good point. If you have your BitTorrent client set to use (for
    example) 50% of your available bandwidth, two machines will use ALL of
    your bandwidth, resulting in double the throughput.
     
    Jeff Liebermann, Jul 11, 2013
    #13
  14. ps56k

    miso Guest

    Well yeah, except you set the 50% limit so you had some bandwidth for
    other stuff. Now you are defeating the reason you set the limit.

    As I said in the other post, it does make sense if your hardware is
    junker grade.
     
    miso, Jul 11, 2013
    #14
  15. ps56k

    DevilsPGD Guest

    In the last episode of <>,
    Or just set it to use all of your bandwidth, and go Office Space on your
    other junker computer.
     
    DevilsPGD, Jul 12, 2013
    #15
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