Is there a way to get WiFi NOISE levels for a mobile device?

Discussion in 'Wireless Internet' started by Paul B. Andersen, Jul 1, 2015.

  1. Paul B. Andersen

    Rod Speed Guest

    Yeah, tho dsl is a lot easier to setup, just plug it in and go.

    I've set it up for almost everyone I know.
    I don't get any asterisks on mine for some reason.
    No asterisks at all for some reason.
    Love it, definitely a keeper.
    Yeah, must do that in case some stop being free.
     
    Rod Speed, Jul 3, 2015
    #61
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  2. The walls are stucco on the outside, gypsum on the inside,
    and wood & fiberglass in the middle.

    The windows out here are all mandated to be some kind of
    sunlight factor (I don't know the details) that means they
    have metal in the glass somehow. It's illegal, as I recall,
    to replace the glass with anything else.

    It's absolutely shocking how well the glass attenuates
    a radio signal.
    Wow. I'm sorry for him. I wish him the best.
    I have been researching this thing called "insulin resistance",
    which seems to have some merit. It's the oddest diet in the
    world though, where you consume lots of fat, and some
    protein, but no carbs (well, 22 grams of carbs a day,
    which is so little that you can't not get that much).

    Your tongue tastes like it has been licking paint thinner,
    since you switched your metabolism from glucosis to
    ketosis (you used up all the glucose in your body and
    liver glycogen in the first two or three days).

    The theory is that, over time, on this high-fat almost
    no-carb diet, your body eventually normalizes & reduces the
    insulin resistance, which sort of cures the pre-diabetes
    since insulin is secreted in massive amounts from the
    pancreas when you're in insulin resistance (which simply
    means the receptor cells don't react like they used to,
    so you need more and more insulin to get the same effect).

    Anyway, I wish him the best, as glucose is a poison when
    in high amounts in the body, if insulin isn't getting it
    out of the blood and into the cells, liver glycogen,
    and adipose fat stores.
     
    Paul B. Andersen, Jul 3, 2015
    #62
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  3. Paul B. Andersen

    Rod Speed Guest

    Yeah, that's what my wifi extender calls it too.
    Yes, that is correct.
    Yeah, that's why I did it that way.
    I only have an external TV antenna and its just off
    the edge of the flat roof so is only 11' off the ground.
    Some very big trees along the park/south side of the
    house and I've never had a lightning strike on those, yet.
     
    Rod Speed, Jul 3, 2015
    #63
  4. Hmmmmm... dunno why. Maybe I get the asterisks only because
    it knows that there are two SSIDs that it calls 'similar'.

    I guess I could turn one router off, but, as I said, I'm
    in bed, and if I move about, the whole house goes bonkers
    because of the alarm noises, so, I'll save that for another
    day.

    Gnite, and thanks for all the good details.
     
    Paul B. Andersen, Jul 3, 2015
    #64
  5. One *huge* advantage in outdoor applications of the WISP radios
    (which, incidentally, cost the same as a puny router) is that
    they have the POWER thing all figured out.

    They use 15 to 24VDC power over Ethernet, so, you can easily
    go about 300 feet (and you can daisy chain them further).

    So, if you have to run wires anyway, you would rather run
    outdoor cat5 instead of outdoor extension cords.

    The advantages?

    1. Same cost as a router
    2. 300' of cat5 is cheaper than 300' of extension cord
    3. No loss in speed
    4. Best of all, signal strength 10x that of a router
    (at least in the USA)
     
    Paul B. Andersen, Jul 3, 2015
    #65
  6. Lightning is a strange beast.
    It actually mostly comes from the ground and goes *up* into the sky,
    so, in effect, it *knows* where you are at all times.

    You don't want to be near where lines of force converge, as in
    the tip of anything metal, for example.

    At that point, the electric field lines build up, and, zzzzzap,
    the air molecules are rarefied into a plasma (as I understand it).

    That plasma is basically a liquid column of electrons, which
    allows the current to flow in massive amounts, if only for
    a split second.

    Kaboom! By the time you hear the sonic waves from the pulsating
    pressure wave, you're dead.
     
    Paul B. Andersen, Jul 3, 2015
    #66
  7. Paul B. Andersen

    Rod Speed Guest

    Yeah, I assumed it was that, most commonly seen in north america.
    We don't have anything like that here, but it doesn't
    get anything like as cold here. There is just one recorded
    event of snow here in the met records and it didn't see
    any snow on the ground at all.
    Yeah, I'm not surprised with the metallisation.

    You get the same effect with microwave oven windows.
    Wouldn't appeal to me, my breakfast is a great slab
    of my own multigrain toast, as thick as will still go
    in the toaster with the toaster chosen to be able to
    do the thickest toast. And roast potatoes almost
    every night except when eating pizza or steak.
    That doesn't appeal either.
    I don't have that problem myself, I'm right in the middle of
    the ideal BMI and walk for exercise a lot except in the winter.
    Yeah, that's why he had his leg chopped off. Managed to
    burn it on the engine cover in the RV because he had no
    feeling in his feet and it never did heal due to the diabetes.

    He's got one hell of a slow heartbeat. They were planning
    to fit a pacemaker but gave up on that due to the MRSA
    they never could get rid of.
     
    Rod Speed, Jul 3, 2015
    #67
  8. Paul B. Andersen

    Rod Speed Guest

    Yeah, I should know tomorrow. The grandson has just showed
    up borrowing a power cord and has said he wants to use the
    wifi extender and I have said I will power it tomorrow. Its just
    gone 6pm here and there are no lights out there and a hell
    of a jungle in my backyard.
    No problem, see ya tomorrow.
     
    Rod Speed, Jul 3, 2015
    #68
  9. Paul B. Andersen

    Rod Speed Guest

    The economics is a bit different here because I normally
    use what I have got from garage/yard sales for peanuts
    with routers and extension cords and don't see long CAT5
    very often at all at those, if ever.
     
    Rod Speed, Jul 3, 2015
    #69
  10. Paul B. Andersen

    Rod Speed Guest

    It is indeed, surprisingly unpredictable.
    Yes, it often does.
    Not if you stay inside the house etc.
    Or being the highest thing around like on
    flat ground well away from the trees etc.
    Or very severely burnt and unlikely to live for long.
     
    Rod Speed, Jul 3, 2015
    #70
  11. Paul B. Andersen

    Char Jackson Guest

    In my travels, I've come to know extenders and repeaters as being
    synonymous. The marketing folks call them extenders, but the technical folks
    call them repeaters. They are wireless devices that spend half their time
    listening and the other half talking, repeating what they heard. They
    operate on a single channel and reduce the effective throughput by more than
    half.

    OTOH, when the connection into the network is wired rather than wireless,
    it's an Access Point (AP). An AP is usually configured to use a different,
    non-overlapping channel than the main WiFi device, and it can use the same
    SSID or a different SSID, depending on your needs.
    To me, it sounds like you have an Access Point and he has an
    extender/repeater, BICBW.
     
    Char Jackson, Jul 4, 2015
    #71
  12. Is this what you're saying, in a nutshell?
    1. Extender = same as repeater
    2. Repeater = wireless, same channel, same or different SSID
    3. Access Point = wired, different channel, same or different SSID

    If so, then Mr. Rod Speed has a repeater/extender, while I have
    a second access point wired to my main router.

    I never looked up the definitions, so, maybe I have been using
    the words repeater/extender incorrectly.

    I stand corrected.
     
    Paul B. Andersen, Jul 4, 2015
    #72
  13. A range extender or wireless repeater (same thing) give me the most
    problems with streaming video because of the limited size of the
    various buffers along the path. If you do a throughput test from one
    of the internet speed tests, or with a local program (iperf3), you'll
    see that the graphs of the speeds are very erratic and jumpy. That's
    fine for streaming audio, where buffering 15-20 seconds of music is
    common, but not for video, where the same buffers might be only
    seconds long.
    I'm on vacation for a few days would like to avoid doing my standard
    rant on why wi-fi repeaters/extenders/mesh-networks suck. This is
    close enough:
    <http://community.spiceworks.com/top...repeaters-work-very-well-ok-why-do-they-suck>
    I also gave a talk on my wi-fi mesh networks suck:
    <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/FLUG-talk-2015-02-28/Mesh-talk.doc>
    which includes some derogatory remarks on repeaters and extenders. The
    screen grabs show it best. This is 802.11g/n direct (no repeater):
    <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/FLUG-talk-2015-02-28/802.11gn direct.jpg>
    and this is through a Netgear something repeater:
    <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/FLUG-talk-2015-02-28/802.11gn through Netgear repeater.jpg>
    Notice that direct is twice the speed and rather consistent, while
    through the repeater is half the speed and rather erratic.
    A "range extender" and "wireless repeater" are the same thing usually
    involving a single access point and a single client computah. A
    "wireless mesh network" is the same, except it usually involves one
    access point that's connected to the internet, and multiple clients.
    It's much the same distinction as a wired bridge, which has exactly 2
    ports, and a wired switch, which 3 or more ports. In other words, a
    mesh network is an expanded version of the two port range extender.
    Nope. They're identical. Both "store and forward" packets. Since
    only one transmitter can be on the air at a time, this store and
    forward action produces twice as many packets flying through the air
    at a time, which reducing the maximum speed. For example, if your
    direct link between your client computah runs at some speed, at best
    adding a repeater will cut it in half. Often, it's much worse than
    half.

    The exceptions to this are the full duplex repeaters and the cross
    band repeaters. Both are rather scarce in home wi-fi hardware, but
    fairly common in mesh networks. The store and forward delay only
    happens because the repeater cannot transmit and receive at the same
    time with only one radio. However, by adding a 2nd radio, on a
    different channel, it can simultaneously transmit while receiving.
    Similarly, the added 2nd radio can be on a different band, such as
    5GHz. There's still a slight reduction in speed, because packets need
    to be received completely before they can be retransmitted, but since
    a packet can be received while the previous packet is being
    transmitted, the maximum speed reduction is not as drastic and
    certainly not 50%.
    Sigh. I never could understand the "fear of wires" problem. If you
    look at advertising photos of computer systems, you NEVER see any
    wires. They're always hidden from sight. No power cords, no monitor
    cables, no chargers, no tangled mess of wires that are the bane of
    interior decorators everywhere. It's like the wired equivalent of the
    tin foil hat people found among wireless devices.
    Lightning protection is easy. Do good deeds and you will not incur
    the wrath of the thunder gods.

    Yawwnnn... back to sleep. I need my vacation.
     
    Jeff Liebermann, Jul 4, 2015
    #73
  14. Paul B. Andersen

    Ant Guest

    What about for non-jail broken iOS devices?
    --
    "Although you're a little ant, I won't bully you." --Sai Yuk from The
    Legend of Fong Sai Yuk movie (English subtitles)
    /\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
    / /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
    | |o o| |
    \ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
    ( ) Chop ANT from its address if e-mailing privately.
    Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.
     
    Ant, Jul 4, 2015
    #74
  15. Rong. You cannot repeat from one SSID to another SSID. The Wi-Fi
    infrastructure mode decrees that you can only send packets to devices
    with the same SSID. So it is written, so it must be, unless you run
    an Ad-Hoc network.
    Same problem. You can't connect across different SSID's except with
    an ad-hoc network, which doesn't have an SSID.

    The access point is just the wireless bridge part of a wireless
    router. More specifically, a wireless access point is a wireless
    bridge. On one side of the bridge, you have an ethernet connection
    that would go to a router or modem. On the other side, you have
    another ethernet connection, but one that encapsulates all the
    ethernet packets inside 802.11 packets. Traffic only moves across the
    bridge when the designated destination address is across the other
    side of the bridge (except for broadcasts and management packets,
    which go everywhere).
    Sounds right. Manufacturer names and model numbers will settle the
    matter.
    You're in good company as many manufacturers and writers have the same
    problem. I once tried to untangle the various forms of "bridge":
    <http://wireless.navas.us/index.php?title=Wi-Fi#Wireless_Bridge_Types>
    Since nobody has bothered to correct this over the years, I'll assume
    I got it right. One thing to remember is that everything in Wi-Fi
    happens at Layer 2 (MAC layer). Layer 3 (TCP/IP) is only involved in
    managing the device usually via a web browser.
    No need to stand up when correcting yourself. It can be done sitting
    down.
     
    Jeff Liebermann, Jul 4, 2015
    #75
  16. Apple has a policy the proscribes wi-fi sniffers on their devices.
    Here's one article on the problem:
    <https://gigaom.com/2010/03/04/apple-says-wifi-sniffing-apps-stink/>
    <http://news.softpedia.com/news/After-Purging-Adult-Apps-Apple-Now-Pulls-Wi-Fi-Finders-136545.shtml>

    Here's the rules of the app game which do NOT include anything
    specific on sniffing, thus making it an "unwritten" policy (unless I
    missed something):
    <https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/>
    It's one of the reasons I dumped my iPhone and switched to Android.

    This is about the most that can be done without jailbreaking:
    <http://community.arubanetworks.com/t5/Technology-Blog/Apple-iOS-8-WiFi-Scanning-Returns/ba-p/203015>
     
    Jeff Liebermann, Jul 4, 2015
    #76
  17. If you are taking OSI here, layer 2 is the data link layer. It has a
    sub-layer that handles media access control, so "Layer 2 (MAC layer)" is
    an ambiguous phrase. But, yes, bridging is a link layer function.
    IP is a network protocol (layer 3), but TCP is a transport protocol
    (layer 4).

    <snip>
     
    Ben Bacarisse, Jul 4, 2015
    #77
  18. Trying again, how's this?

    Repeater = wireless, same channel, same SSID (infrastructure mode)
    Extender = same as repeater
    Access Point (infrastructure mode) = wired, same or different channel, same SSID

    Summarizing the suggested article that Jeff provided:
    1. Routers generally come configured to use "Infrastructure Mode":
    2. Infrastructure Mode = central access point required for all devices (SSID).
    3. Ad-Hoc Mode = central access point not required for all devices (no SSID).

    Jeff: I never understood "bridges" (nor Gateways), but, I do
    understand my wired access point, so, if *that* is merely a bridge
    to my router, then I understand bridges (which I knew to be at the
    MAC level since the MAC of the mobile device is known to the router
    but not known to the Internet).

    Thanks! (The weather is much cooler today, isn't it!).
     
    Paul B. Andersen, Jul 4, 2015
    #78
  19. I had not realized that my WRT54G wired as an access point (i.e.,
    a bridge) to my Netgear main router is at half the speed.

    Bummer.
     
    Paul B. Andersen, Jul 4, 2015
    #79
  20. So, in effect, my setup is still *faster* than Rod Speed's setup,
    but, not twice as fast.

    My spare Linksys WRT54G router is set up, on your advice of, oh,
    about two or three years ago, to broadcast on a different channel
    (channel 1) than the main Netgear router (channel 2) but on the
    same SSID (so that mobile devices can switch seamlessly between
    them - which is something Android seems to do better than iOS
    based on my measurements years ago).

    While the newer Netgear router is dual band, the Linksys is only
    2.4GHz, so I don't have the option of switching the band.
     
    Paul B. Andersen, Jul 4, 2015
    #80
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