getting wifi to the dead zones of a big house (2nd DSL Modem androuter combo?)

Discussion in 'Wireless Internet' started by peter, Jan 14, 2009.

  1. peter

    peter Guest

    Hello.

    I know this is the most common query out here, but I've not quite
    found the solution in my reading various posts. So, at the risk of
    repetitive, I'll put my problem out there.

    We live in an old four-story house with brick and plaster walls. the
    DSL modem and wirelessRouter #1 are in the Rear end of the 2nd floor.
    Wifi reception all along the front side of the house (floors 1-4 is
    low at best, usually Zero.)

    I am trying to figure out how to best extend the range to reach these
    corners.

    1. I can't really move the modem and Router#1.
    2. Nor can I run ethernet to a point where I could set up a second
    access point (if I am reading correctly, a second wireless AP MUST to
    wired to the first router. if that is NOT correct, could someone
    explain how to set up a standalone, unwired AP?)
    3. I have several wifi routers and DSL modems.
    4. there are telephone jacks all over the house.

    So, Question (beyond the "how, given the wiring constraints, best to
    set up another AP?"):
    - can I plug a second DSL modem into one of the other telephone jacks
    and attach another router to that modem and have a working second AP
    that way??

    many thanks

    Peter
     
    peter, Jan 14, 2009
    #1
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  2. peter

    Stephen Guest

    try adding powerline APs?

    this is the netgear UK flavour - pick one that works with your local
    mains system.
    http://www.netgear.co.uk/extra/wallplugged_range_extender_wgxb102.php

    note this one is a kit with 1 unit to connect to your router and 1
    remote AP - it sounds like you may want multiple APs.
     
    Stephen, Jan 14, 2009
    #2
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  3. peter

    dold Guest

    If you have some signal, a simple reflector might give you enough boost.

    http://www.freeantennas.com EZ-12, printed on photo paper for thick stock,
    with aluminum foil glued to the sail, provides a substantial boost in
    signal. http://www.rahul.net/dold/clarence/EZ12-windsurfer.jpg

    Make the tabs longer than the template drawing for easier assembly.
     
    dold, Jan 15, 2009
    #3
  4. peter

    ps56k Guest

    I just drew this out on paper...

    When you are connected to the 1st WAP,
    what's your IP address & Gateway address ?

    When connected to the 2nd WAP,
    what's your IP and GW ?
     
    ps56k, Jan 15, 2009
    #4
  5. peter

    bod43 Guest

    I am sure that what was meant is that it is nonsense
    that a "guru" said it would not work.

    That is standard networking. As you can see
    missunderstandings are easy in this medium:)

    Just take care not to overlap your dhcp ranges
    if you have 2 dhcp servers.
     
    bod43, Jan 15, 2009
    #5
  6. peter

    ps56k Guest

    when connected to each WAP,
    on your laptop - display your network adapter settings...
    ie - for XP -> Start -> Run -> CMD -> ipconfig
    Windows IP Configuration
    Ethernet adapter Wireless Network Connection:

    Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
    IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.151
    Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
    Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.2
     
    ps56k, Jan 15, 2009
    #6
  7. peter

    DanS Guest

    More expense ? Not when doing it yourself.
     
    DanS, Jan 15, 2009
    #7
  8. peter

    seaweedsl Guest

    As others have said:

    1) think harder about why you assume that you can't run ethernet cable
    to other rooms.
    a) is there no attic that you can take the cable up into to cross
    the house?
    b) are you intimidated by the idea of drilling a hole through a
    wall?
    c) installing connectors on the ends of Cat 5e cable seems too
    hard?

    If one of the above, consider hiring a cable or network guy to run the
    cables from your existing router to distant rooms and then put APs on
    the cables.

    2) Use powerline networking adapters and then put your AP on the ends
    where they are needed.


    Cheers,
    Steve
     
    seaweedsl, Jan 16, 2009
    #8
  9. peter

    DanS Guest

    Honestly though, only half is bad....1/4 of the time is spent trying to
    understand the question, and the other 1/4 is spent posting and reposting
    the same WPA is Not secure, or WEP, or whatever.
     
    DanS, Jan 16, 2009
    #9
  10. peter

    seaweedsl Guest

    Much as I try to stay on topic, I have to chime in and agree on this.
    I'm sure there's some history that the rest of us don't know about,
    but if I could block posters in google groups, it would be the ones
    who constantly disrupt threads to make ugly comments and carry on
    personal vendettas, not John Navas who simply repeatedly posts a
    thread about wireless security that is presumably for newcomers,
    though i suppose it's seen as horn-blowing.

    I can ignore that repeating thread, but this constant sniping within
    the real help threads is noisy and making me want to switch to a
    newsreader and start blocking Bill and other one or two others.

    Bill has been helpful at times, but this sniping is annoying and
    mostly out of form for this group.
     
    seaweedsl, Jan 18, 2009
    #10
  11. peter

    seaweedsl Guest

     Don't use powerline devices.  They're overpriced crap.  

    First time I used them, they worked like a charm. That house now has
    three Netgear 103s and I'm their hero for getting internet working
    throughout their house while over for Thanksgiving. Took about 2
    hours after going to the store.

    Since then, I bought a couple used/NOS ones for around $30 on Amazon
    and Ebay and I've found they (Netgear 102 and 103) work in some
    places and don't in others.

    I understand that there are several Powerline standards which perform
    differently and then some products/manufactures are going to be more
    reliable than others, so it's hard to generalize, perhaps best to
    investigate a particular standard and model.

    I don't agree that they are crap. They are networking devices/systems
    - like wireless - that facilitate networking- sometimes, in some
    situations, and are problematic or useless in others.

    Unlike wireless, they are typically very easy to setup - when they
    work.

    Steve
     
    seaweedsl, Jan 18, 2009
    #11
  12. peter

    seaweedsl Guest


    Apart from whatever 220V issues the XE102s have, the wireless version
    - The WGX102- is said to have overheating problems on 110v circuits
    also.

    I never recommend them for that reason, and only use mine occasionally
    to extend networks when visiting friends and family. Personally,
    I'm on the lookout for another brand that is better designed.

    http://www.amazon.com/review/produc...ageNumber=2&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending

    So, to back-pedal a bit, perhaps Bill's comment IS accurate when it
    comes to these wireless versions (and others?)

    Again, do the research (I critically study Amazon and Newegg reviews)
    before choosing a model- but don't dismiss them out of hand.
    Powerline networking is a solution for some people.

    I'm interested in peoples experiences with the other brands. Anyone
    used Belkin, Linksys, Trendnet, Zyxel?

    steve
     
    seaweedsl, Jan 18, 2009
    #12
  13. peter

    seaweedsl Guest

    Good point. 103 is one system, 102 other, IIRC.
     
    seaweedsl, Jan 19, 2009
    #13
  14. peter

    seaweedsl Guest



    Great info, thanks. The link showing clients for Intellon seems to
    indicate that most brands are using the same chips and therefore will
    perform similarly, but this can be misleading. For example, Netgear
    XE103 uses Homeplug 1.0 Turbo, but their HDX101 uses the competing
    DS-2 system which appears to have higher "clean-line" numbers, but
    lower performance in the field than the HomePlug AV.


    And then one can see that there is a huge difference between HomePlug
    1.0, 1.0 Turbo and HomePlug AV. So it's still important to check each
    series for each brand. Cutting to the bottom line, though, it
    appears that HomePlug AV is the most robust. Linksys and Zyxel are
    using this, Netgear and Buffalo is not.

    By the way, here's an incredible value for HomePlug AV:

    http://www.amazon.com/NBG-318S-Powerline-HomePlug-802-11g-Wireless/dp/B000VY72PQ
    Just buy two of these suckers and forget the dedicated/specialized
    devices.

    I wonder if this is where routers are headed - Wireless/Powerline/
    Router/Firewall/switch all rolled into one for $29
    _____________________________________

    Back to following up on your links,

    The performance testing white paper by Intellon is interesting-

    http://www.intellon.com/products/performance.php

    Excerpts:

    Devices that serve as noise impairments have greatest impact when they
    are located close to the receiving PLC device.
    When a device is suspected to be a serious noise impairment, simply
    unplug it to see if the throughput improves. If
    improvement is realized, move the offending device to another location
    or plug it into an EMI suppressing power strip.

    Noise cohabitation is a fact of life for PLC networks, but that does
    not mean that PLC networking is not practical or viable.
    What it does mean is that the best PLC technology must be identified
    and carefully selected. Not all PLC technologies
    are created equal and neither should all PLC technologies be judged by
    the poor performance of some.


    And then this:


    1.5. The Coax Medium
    Intellon’s HomePlug AV standard-based RD6000-ETH Ethernet Powerline
    Adapter Reference Design offers hybrid media
    capability for networking over powerline and coax. The coax medium is
    referred to as a “clean line”, meaning there is very
    little noise to serve as communication impairments. While the
    performance of Intellon’s reference design is superior to
    other PLC technologies over the more-noisy powerline medium, its
    performance is improved still more over the quiet coax
    medium. Where conveniently available, the coax medium may offer an
    increase in throughput. A point to note here is
    that the throughput rate (UDP) on a clean line is limited by the 100-
    Mbps Ethernet interface rather than the HomePlug AV
    technology.


    So does this mean we can adapt these devices to use existing coax
    installations as well?




    Some more interesting links:

    http://www.homeplug.org/about/faqs/


    http://www.edn.com/blog/400000040/post/1520014152.html

    http://www.edn.com/article/CA6558480.html

    http://www.edn.com/article/CA651216...etworking+AND+homeplug+AND+av+AND+performance
     
    seaweedsl, Jan 19, 2009
    #14
  15. peter

    seaweedsl Guest

    Wow. I had certainly seen this kind of thing on software reviews
    (download.com) but now will take a more critical eye to the product
    reviews also.

    Of course most of us have seen Belkin's performance first hand. I
    ignore their products by default.
     
    seaweedsl, Jan 19, 2009
    #15
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