Fibre broadband modem

Discussion in 'Broadband' started by Ash Burton, Feb 19, 2015.

  1. Ash Burton

    Ash Burton Guest

    I am considering changing my broadband from ADSL to FTTC.

    I understand that Openreach (or BT Wholesale) will provide a fibre
    broadband modem, my question is does this modem have to be connected at
    the master telephone socket in my property or can it be connected to any
    telephone extension outlet. ( I have been unable to find the master
    telephone outlet as yet).

    TIA Ash

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    Ash Burton, Feb 19, 2015
    #1
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  2. Ash Burton

    Graham J Guest

    Yes it has to be connected at the master socket.

    If you can't find the master socket the Openreach installation engineer
    will find it for you, and might be persuaded to rearrange any wiring as
    necessary.

    If you take FTTC from BT they will supply an integrated router (some
    flavour of home hub) which contains the FTTC modem. If you want a
    proper router, then any other ISP will simply arrange for Openreach to
    provide the FTTC connection and their (probably Huwei) FTTC modem; you
    can then use the Ethernet router you prefer. Some routers (e.g. Vigor
    2860) contain a dual-purpose ADSL/VDSL modem, so you can monitor the
    VDSL line state.
     
    Graham J, Feb 19, 2015
    #2
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  3. Ash Burton

    Recliner Guest

    In my case, the master socket was in the right place, and the Openreach
    installer updated it to the latest socket. But after it was all installed,
    the line quality was poor, so he completely replaced and re-routed the
    cable from the entry to the property to the socket. That improved the
    quality, but the HomeHub 5 still wouldn't perform reliably, as I'm a long
    way from the cabinet. A second installer was then sent, and he put in the
    Huwei FTTC modem, with the HH5 then just acting as the router. I now get
    over 50mbps.
     
    Recliner, Feb 19, 2015
    #3
  4. Ash Burton

    Roger Mills Guest

    Openreach will replace your existing master socket with a new one with
    built-in filters, and two outlet sockets - one for broadband and one for
    phones. The modem needs to be connected directly or indirectly to the
    broadband socket. If you don't want your modem to be installed
    physically close to the master position, you'll need to get OR to
    install (or DIY it) a dedicated (unfiltered) extension socket in a
    location of your choosing. This is unlikely to be without cost.
    --
    Cheers,
    Roger
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    Roger Mills, Feb 19, 2015
    #4
  5. Ash Burton

    Brian Mc Guest

    : Openreach will replace your existing master socket with a new one with
    : built-in filters, and two outlet sockets - one for broadband and one for
    : phones.

    This is no longer necessarily true!!

    An increasing number of ISPs (including BT for their 38Mbps service)
    are just using the EXISTING wiring with filtered extension sockets
    (exactly like ADSL).

    For these you will get a modem (or integrated modem/router for the likes
    of BT and Sky) and will plus it into the existing house wiring on the
    appointed date!
     
    Brian Mc, Feb 19, 2015
    #5
  6. Ash Burton

    Ash Burton Guest

    That would be ideal for my situation as i have many built-in extension
    telephone outlets wired from the as yet unlocated master socket and
    wiring them all back to a new one would be inconvenient to say the least.

    I am not likely to use Sky or BT, so i might be in with a chance of
    getting the set up you have described. Thanks

    Ash

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    Ash Burton, Feb 19, 2015
    #6
  7. I got a slight but noticeable improvement in speed on ADSL when I
    replaced the faceplace myself, so I would imagine it would make a
    bigger difference to VDSL, which uses even higher frequencies.

    Ideally you should have the modem as close as practicable to the point
    where the phone cable enters the house, to minimise the length of
    cable carrying the VDSL signal, and distribute the service inside the
    house via ethernet and/or wireless.

    Rod.
     
    Roderick Stewart, Feb 19, 2015
    #7
  8. Ash Burton

    Andy Burns Guest

    The phones are behind the low-pass filter and the modem/router sits
    directly on the line, so it doesn't matter that VDSL uses higher
    frequencies than ADSL, it still sees anything above approx 3kHz and the
    phone doesn't.

    My mate who's 37 years in the job with BT reckons the original "engineer
    fit" ADSL faceplate gives equally good results with FTTC, compared to
    the VDSL interstitial plate.
     
    Andy Burns, Feb 19, 2015
    #8
  9. Ash Burton

    Mark Carver Guest

    Curiously when my folks had a problem with a noisy line, as part of the
    investigation the engineer removed the ADSL faceplate filter I'd fitted
    in 2005, and replaced it with a VDSL plate. (That wasn't causing the
    problem BTW, it was a dodgy joint on the overhaed line)
     
    Mark Carver, Feb 19, 2015
    #9
  10. Ash Burton

    Roger Mills Guest

    Why? Unless you live somewhere the size of Buck House - with the cabinet
    right outside your door - the internal wiring is going to be very short
    compared with the cabinet to premises wiring.
    --
    Cheers,
    Roger
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    Roger Mills, Feb 19, 2015
    #10
  11. Ash Burton

    Woody Guest

    For the record its 'who are we' - Huawei, not hughie (Huwei) as
    scripted in this thread.
     
    Woody, Feb 19, 2015
    #11
  12. Ash Burton

    Andy Burns Guest

    I'd have said closer to "who are way"
     
    Andy Burns, Feb 19, 2015
    #12
  13. Ash Burton

    Graham J Guest

    The various extension (depending on how they are wired) may behave as
    unterminated stubs and cause relections.

    See http://www.ti.com/sc/docs/products/network/vdslwp.pdf where the
    terminologyu is "bridged tap".

    This will be more serious at the higher frequencies used by VDSL. The
    problem is solved by fitting the microfilter before the conection of the
    unterminated stubs.

    Also, the extension wiring may not have been installed with suitable
    cable or using appropriate techniques. Rather than investigate every
    single failure BT not unreasonably insist that you install your
    microfilter at the master socket in order to remove the influence of
    unsuitable wiring.
     
    Graham J, Feb 19, 2015
    #13
  14. Ash Burton

    Woody Guest

    On a rare occassion I will be rude.

    Pedant.
     
    Woody, Feb 19, 2015
    #14
  15. This depends on the installation. Internal wiring *should* only
    consist of properly fitted extensions on plug and socket joins, and
    the filter *should* completely isolate the ADSL/VDSL equipment from
    any of its effects, but there's no guarantee of this. There could be
    lots of branches, one-legged sections, or DIY extensions tapped off
    the back of the master socket, possibly not even using the right kind
    of cable. It's not the overall cable length that's important here, so
    much as the possibility of reflections from impedance mismatches, or
    induced currents from nearby cables or equipment carrying other
    signals. We are dealing with shortwave radio frequencies after all.
    The safest thing is to eliminate extraneous wiring entirely.

    If the internal wiring could be guaranteed to have no effect, why does
    the first test that BT advise you to do require you to bypass it?

    Rod.
     
    Roderick Stewart, Feb 20, 2015
    #15
  16. Ash Burton

    Roger Mills Guest

    I never suggested that there couldn't be problems with the internal
    wiring but simply that the *length* of it - provided it was done
    properly - was unlikely to be an issue. Length - not incorrect wiring -
    was all you mentioned in your previous post.
    --
    Cheers,
    Roger
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    Roger Mills, Feb 20, 2015
    #16
  17. That's true. I did only mention the cable length previously, but it's
    not the only consideration, and in any case it depends entirely on the
    size and geography of the particular premises. There could be a
    considerable length of cable between entry to the house and the master
    socket if it's an old house, and some of it could be buried in plaster
    or paintwork and decades old. That's without even considering spurs
    for extensions that are no longer used but still connected.

    Hard-wired junction boxes were being replaced with modern sockets long
    before ADSL, so if I were an engineer with the task of doing this, I'd
    simply connect up to the existing wiring as long as it tested OK and
    worked for phone signals, rather than replace the entire run. Wouldn't
    you? It would take a rare kind of foresight to allow for the
    possibility that some time in the future those old cables might be
    required to work up to 12MHz.

    Rod.
     
    Roderick Stewart, Feb 20, 2015
    #17
  18. Ash Burton

    Kraftee Guest

    The real answer is no, you don't need to have it installed at the master
    socket and if you have a self install they'll just supply the router plus a
    couple of plug in filters. As for whether this is the best way of doing
    things I personally don't agree (in fact most of the posters on here
    wouldn't).

    To get the optimum service I would suggest you pay the extra to get (what is
    called) a managed install, that way the visiting engineer should bring your
    cabling up to a good standard, positioning your NTE at the right place for
    your purposes.

    So the answer is no it doesn't but it is best practice to do so.
     
    Kraftee, Feb 20, 2015
    #18
  19. Ash Burton

    Brian Mc Guest

    : Ideally you should have the modem as close as practicable to the point
    : where the phone cable enters the house, to minimise the length of
    : cable carrying the VDSL signal, and distribute the service inside the
    : house via ethernet and/or wireless.

    Why exactly? If there are several 100 metres of phone cable from the house
    to the BT Green box added another 10 metres or so is not going to change
    anything much!

    I had a proper OpenReach installer who solidly crimped the incoming wire
    onto a pare pair of my house extension wiring and, using this, moved
    the Master Socket to where I wanted it!
     
    Brian Mc, Feb 23, 2015
    #19
  20. See my answer above to another poster who said exactly the same thing.
    In essence, although in the posting you quote above I cite cable
    length, this may not be the only consideration. Perhaps I could have
    chosen my words more carefully and said something like "to minimise
    the amount of unknown cabling...", instead of only mentioning length.
    If it works, lucky you, but some household wiring installations are
    rat's nest arrangements of unofficial extensions and leftover
    connections of various vintages, generally with no documentation or
    labelling. Parts of them may be concealed under years of plaster or
    paintwork and their details or even existence unknown. If you don't
    know where all the wiring is, where it goes, and how well the
    connections have been made, you cannot guarantee how well it will
    behave when you connect radio-frequency equipment to it.

    If your particular setup works to your satisfaction, that's great, but
    I stand by my general recommendation for the shortest most direct
    cable route that is practicable for the VDSL signal.

    Rod.
     
    Roderick Stewart, Feb 23, 2015
    #20
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