Zyxel - False Advertising! - Beware of this Company!

On Jun 26, 1:25 am, Le Chaud Lapin <jaibudu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 26, 12:50 am, Le Chaud Lapin <jaibudu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jun 25, 11:31 pm, Le Chaud Lapin <jaibudu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > For all else who are interested, the pseudo-generic name for what I am
> > looking for is "SoftAP".
>
> > Google it, and much information will come forth.
>
> I appears that the complete package is Zyxel G200 series:
>
> http://us.zyxel.com/web/product_fami...dexflag=200405....

BUYER BEWARE:

Zyxel seems to be engaged in deliberate false-advertising to move
products known to be incompatible with Vista in some respects.

I bought the Zyxel AG-225H and was extremely disappointed today that
the Access Point feature will not run on Vista.

The following page:

http://tinyurl.com/6zr6zn

...reads:

"the Software Access Point feature that is included in each and every
AG-225H."

...it also reads:

"Microsoft Vista Support Out of the Box"
"Microsoft Vista is the next big operating system change users have to
contend with
coming out of Microsoft in 2007. Don’t be afraid of your new AG-225H
becoming
obsolete lagging behind your computer OS upgrades"

I was definitely afraid of no Vista support for my Access Point
dongle, so I spent over an hour carefully searching the web to make
sure that the Access Point device I chose supported Vista. I chose the
AG-225H specifically because it mentioned "Microsoft Vista Support Out
Of The Box."

If you try to use this device with Vista, the Software Access Point
feature not only will not work, it will not install. AT ALL. This is
not a bug. It is deliberate. The engineers have not written any GUI
software for Vista. Zero. If the installation CD detects that the
operating system on which it is being installed is Windows Vista, it
will install the device driver only, and completely block installation
of any other software, including the Access Point software.

I spent 30 minutes on the phone today with a Zyxel representative and
his manager arguing about whether a rational, moderately intelligent
person reading the page at the link above would get the impression
that the device is Vista-ready, meaning not only will it be useable as
a normal Wi-Fi roaming dongle, but will also be useable as an Access
Point, which is the only reason I bought it. The representative I
spoke with, and his manager, staunchly denied that they are
responsible for any wrong-doing or confusion that might have arisen,
and faulted me [an electrical/software engineer that programs in
Windows and network devices in particular] for "misinterpreting their
clearly-written presentation."

To prove that they were not at fault, the representative told me to go
to the "Support and Downloads" location on their web site:

http://tinyurl.com/39b82r

And told to scroll down near the bottom and read one of the FAQ's
where it says:

Q:"When I install my ZyXEL Client Adapter, I can’t use the bundled
Utility that controls the adapter. Is this normal? "
A:"Currently, Vista is not supported on any of ZyXEL’s Client Adapters
however this does not mean that they will not work on Windows Vista!
Using the step by step setup process outlined on this webpage, you can
install any of our client adapters onto your Windows Vista OS PC.
Please remember that the Utility used to configure and control the
Client Adapter will be the Windows Zero Config Utility within Windows
Vista."

What this means, in English, is that the Access Point feature *WILL
NOT WORK* on Vista. NOT AT ALL. Note how they call the Access Point
software the "Utility", not "Access Point Software".

I then asked, "Isn't the Support & Downloads area of a company's web-
site typically visited by customers *after* they have already
purchased the product?" He said "No, it is clearly written there, and
you could have excercised some initiative and looked at that page and
seen that the Access Point feature was not supported by Vista."

I then said, "But I was mislead by the page that describes the
product. Why do you not simply put an asterisk next to the 'Microsoft
Vista Support Out of the Box' blurb on the product description page to
say that Vista support does not include the Access Point feature?
After all, the only reason I bought your product is so I could use the
Acess Point feature on Vista." He said, "We will consider that in the
future."

I noticed that too many questions on the FAQ page seemed to indicate
that I was not the only person who inferred that "Microsoft Vista
Support Out of the Box" meant that the Access Point feature would work
on Vista, so I asked the manager..."Certainly there are other people
who where duped by this page...I cannot be the only person who thought
that the Access Point feature would work on Vista only to find out
that it doesn't?" he said, "Yes, you're the only person." I said, "Are
you sure? I am not an idiot...I know how to read, I'm not lazy, this
simply doesn't make sense." He said, "No,..no..you're the only one."

I was about to ask if I could return the device and get my money back
until I read the following FAQ not far from the other FAQ:

http://tinyurl.com/39b82r

Q: "Do you have an exchange program for customers that upgrade their
PC’s to Windows Vista only to find out that the ZyXEL product they are
using does NOT support Windows Vista?"
A: "Unfortunately the 2 Year ZyXEL Warranty program does NOT include
exchanges if the product is not Micosoft Vista supported. The
supported operating systems are dependent on the time of which the
product was developed. Although ZyXEL tries our best to make sure that
all products will be Microsoft Windows Vista certified, sometimes a
replacement product will shift resources from one product to another."

Liar.

This company certainly knows how to make first impressions.

[NOTE: To those reading this post, this is not just a rant. I will
likely sue this company for false advertising as a matter of
principle. What would help me greatly is if you could simply take a
look at the following link, and make a mental note (or otherwise)
that, as of 2008-07-08, there is nothing on the product description
page that says that the Access Point feature of the device cannot be
used under Windows Vista.]

http://tinyurl.com/6zr6zn

Zyxel Customer Support In USA: (800) 978-7222

-Le Chaud Lapin-

Le Chaud Lapin wrote:

> [NOTE: To those reading this post, this is not just a rant. I will
> likely sue this company for false advertising as a matter of
> principle. What would help me greatly is if you could simply take a
> look at the following link, and make a mental note (or otherwise)
> that, as of 2008-07-08, there is nothing on the product description
> page that says that the Access Point feature of the device cannot be
> used under Windows Vista.]
>
> http://tinyurl.com/6zr6zn

Under Specifications

System Requirement

* Notebook or PC with the Pentium II
o 300 MHz or compatible above
o Minimum 32MB RAM (64MB Recommended)
o A minimum of 20MB available hard disk space
o A CD ROM drive
o USB Type A slot (V2.0/V1.1 Comparable)
o Microsoft Windows XP/2000

No mention of Vista


>
> Zyxel Customer Support In USA: (800) 978-7222
>
> -Le Chaud Lapin-

LR wrote:
> Le Chaud Lapin wrote:
>
>> [NOTE: To those reading this post, this is not just a rant. I will
>> likely sue this company for false advertising as a matter of
>> principle. What would help me greatly is if you could simply take a
>> look at the following link, and make a mental note (or otherwise)
>> that, as of 2008-07-08, there is nothing on the product description
>> page that says that the Access Point feature of the device cannot be
>> used under Windows Vista.]
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/6zr6zn
>
> Under Specifications
>
> System Requirement
>
> * Notebook or PC with the Pentium II
> o 300 MHz or compatible above
> o Minimum 32MB RAM (64MB Recommended)
> o A minimum of 20MB available hard disk space
> o A CD ROM drive
> o USB Type A slot (V2.0/V1.1 Comparable)
> o Microsoft Windows XP/2000
>
> No mention of Vista
>
>
>>
>> Zyxel Customer Support In USA: (800) 978-7222
>>
>> -Le Chaud Lapin-
Zyxel Vista Support
http://www.zyxel.com/web/support_vista.php

On Jul 2, 1:43*am, LR <l...@privacy.net> wrote:
> Le Chaud Lapin wrote:
> > [NOTE: To those reading this post, this is not just a rant. *I will
> > likely sue this company for false advertising as a matter of
> > principle. *What would help me greatly is if you could simply take a
> > look at the following link, and make a mental note (or otherwise)
> > that, as of 2008-07-08, there is nothing on the product description
> > page that says that the Access Point feature of the device cannot be
> > used under Windows Vista.]
>
> >http://tinyurl.com/6zr6zn
>
> Under Specifications
>
> System Requirement
>
> * * ** Notebook or PC with the Pentium II
> * * * * * *o 300 MHz or compatible above
> * * * * * *o Minimum 32MB RAM (64MB Recommended)
> * * * * * *o A minimum of 20MB available hard disk space
> * * * * * *o A CD ROM drive
> * * * * * *o USB Type A slot (V2.0/V1.1 Comparable)
> * * * * * *o Microsoft Windows XP/2000
>
> * No mention of Vista

This link [http://tinyurl.com/6zr6zn] is the main link for the product
description page.

It has "Microsoft Vista Support Out of the Box" written in bold
letters.

I think that counts as a "mention of Vista".

-Le Chaud Lapin-

On Jul 2, 1:54*am, LR <l...@privacy.net> wrote:
> LR wrote:
> > Le Chaud Lapin wrote:
>
> >> [NOTE: To those reading this post, this is not just a rant. *I will
> >> likely sue this company for false advertising as a matter of
> >> principle. *What would help me greatly is if you could simply take a
> >> look at the following link, and make a mental note (or otherwise)
> >> that, as of 2008-07-08, there is nothing on the product description
> >> page that says that the Access Point feature of the device cannot be
> >> used under Windows Vista.]
>
> >>http://tinyurl.com/6zr6zn
>
> > Under Specifications
>
> > System Requirement
>
> > * * * Notebook or PC with the Pentium II
> > * * * * * o 300 MHz or compatible above
> > * * * * * o Minimum 32MB RAM (64MB Recommended)
> > * * * * * o A minimum of 20MB available hard disk space
> > * * * * * o A CD ROM drive
> > * * * * * o USB Type A slot (V2.0/V1.1 Comparable)
> > * * * * * o Microsoft Windows XP/2000
>
> > *No mention of Vista
>
> >> Zyxel Customer Support In USA: (800) 978-7222
>
> >> -Le Chaud Lapin-
>
> Zyxel Vista Support

> http://www.zyxel.com/web/support_vista.php

Apparently you did not read my OP. In it, I placed that link already.

Here, let's take two paragraphs, bout written by Zyxel, and place them
next to ecah other to see if it becomes clear:

First, the link that you put above reads:

Q:"When I install my ZyXEL Client Adapter, I can’t use the bundled
Utility that controls the adapter. Is this normal? "
A:"Currently, Vista is not supported on any of ZyXEL’s Client
Adapters
however this does not mean that they will not work on Windows Vista!
Using the step by step setup process outlined on this webpage, you
can
install any of our client adapters onto your Windows Vista OS PC.
Please remember that the Utility used to configure and control the
Client Adapter will be the Windows Zero Config Utility within Windows
Vista."

And now, the link for the AG-225H [http://tinyurl.com/6zr6zn] reads:

"Microsoft Vista Support Out of the Box"
"Microsoft Vista is the next big operating system change users have to
contend with
coming out of Microsoft in 2007. Don’t be afraid of your new AG-225H
becoming
obsolete lagging behind your computer OS upgrades."

So, quick question: After reading this last paragraph, should I expect
Vista support or not? This last paragraph, which is on the main page
for the product, indicates that I should, even though it does not. The
other paragraph is in the product support section.

If I buy even a $40,000 vehicle, I do not go to the car manufacturers
web site to look at the product support section to see if the
marketing materials about its features were dishonest. That would not
make sense.

If a company says that their product has Vista support on the main
description page of the product, then, in my mind, there should be
Vista support for that product. If not, then they should not write on
it, "Microsoft Vista Support Out of the Box".

One of five key tests of whether this constitutes false advertising,
as outlined by US DOC and other laws , is whether a majority of
people, upon seeing on main description page,

"Microsoft Vista Support Out of the Box".

would be lead to believe that there is Vista support for the product.

If so, then this is false advertising.

-Le Chaud Lapin-

Le Chaud Lapin wrote:
> On Jul 2, 1:54 am, LR <l...@privacy.net> wrote:
>> LR wrote:
>>> Le Chaud Lapin wrote:
>>>> [NOTE: To those reading this post, this is not just a rant. I will
>>>> likely sue this company for false advertising as a matter of
>>>> principle. What would help me greatly is if you could simply take a
>>>> look at the following link, and make a mental note (or otherwise)
>>>> that, as of 2008-07-08, there is nothing on the product description
>>>> page that says that the Access Point feature of the device cannot be
>>>> used under Windows Vista.]
>>>> http://tinyurl.com/6zr6zn
>>> Under Specifications
>>> System Requirement
>>> * Notebook or PC with the Pentium II
>>> o 300 MHz or compatible above
>>> o Minimum 32MB RAM (64MB Recommended)
>>> o A minimum of 20MB available hard disk space
>>> o A CD ROM drive
>>> o USB Type A slot (V2.0/V1.1 Comparable)
>>> o Microsoft Windows XP/2000
>>> No mention of Vista
>>>> Zyxel Customer Support In USA: (800) 978-7222
>>>> -Le Chaud Lapin-
>> Zyxel Vista Support
>
>> http://www.zyxel.com/web/support_vista.php
>
> Apparently you did not read my OP. In it, I placed that link already.
>
> Here, let's take two paragraphs, bout written by Zyxel, and place them
> next to ecah other to see if it becomes clear:
>
> First, the link that you put above reads:
>
> Q:"When I install my ZyXEL Client Adapter, I can’t use the bundled
> Utility that controls the adapter. Is this normal? "
> A:"Currently, Vista is not supported on any of ZyXEL’s Client
> Adapters
> however this does not mean that they will not work on Windows Vista!
> Using the step by step setup process outlined on this webpage, you
> can
> install any of our client adapters onto your Windows Vista OS PC.
> Please remember that the Utility used to configure and control the
> Client Adapter will be the Windows Zero Config Utility within Windows
> Vista."
>
> And now, the link for the AG-225H [http://tinyurl.com/6zr6zn] reads:
>
> "Microsoft Vista Support Out of the Box"
> "Microsoft Vista is the next big operating system change users have to
> contend with
> coming out of Microsoft in 2007. Don’t be afraid of your new AG-225H
> becoming
> obsolete lagging behind your computer OS upgrades."
>
> So, quick question: After reading this last paragraph, should I expect
> Vista support or not? This last paragraph, which is on the main page
> for the product, indicates that I should, even though it does not. The
> other paragraph is in the product support section.
>
> If I buy even a $40,000 vehicle, I do not go to the car manufacturers
> web site to look at the product support section to see if the
> marketing materials about its features were dishonest. That would not
> make sense.
>
> If a company says that their product has Vista support on the main
> description page of the product, then, in my mind, there should be
> Vista support for that product. If not, then they should not write on
> it, "Microsoft Vista Support Out of the Box".
>
> One of five key tests of whether this constitutes false advertising,
> as outlined by US DOC and other laws , is whether a majority of
> people, upon seeing on main description page,
>
> "Microsoft Vista Support Out of the Box".
>
> would be lead to believe that there is Vista support for the product.
>
> If so, then this is false advertising.
>
> -Le Chaud Lapin-
Evidently you cannot be bothered to read the posted links as the one you
posted and the one I posted are not the same, there are no FAQ's on the
link I posted and it clearly states that the "Vista Utility" is not
supported.

Le Chaud Lapin wrote:
> On Jul 2, 1:43 am, LR <l...@privacy.net> wrote:
>> Le Chaud Lapin wrote:
>>> [NOTE: To those reading this post, this is not just a rant. I will
>>> likely sue this company for false advertising as a matter of
>>> principle. What would help me greatly is if you could simply take a
>>> look at the following link, and make a mental note (or otherwise)
>>> that, as of 2008-07-08, there is nothing on the product description
>>> page that says that the Access Point feature of the device cannot be
>>> used under Windows Vista.]
>>> http://tinyurl.com/6zr6zn
>> Under Specifications
>>
>> System Requirement
>>
>> * Notebook or PC with the Pentium II
>> o 300 MHz or compatible above
>> o Minimum 32MB RAM (64MB Recommended)
>> o A minimum of 20MB available hard disk space
>> o A CD ROM drive
>> o USB Type A slot (V2.0/V1.1 Comparable)
>> o Microsoft Windows XP/2000
>>
>> No mention of Vista
>
> This link [http://tinyurl.com/6zr6zn] is the main link for the product
> description page.
>
> It has "Microsoft Vista Support Out of the Box" written in bold
> letters.
>
> I think that counts as a "mention of Vista".
>
> -Le Chaud Lapin-
That link also includes the specification page which you evidently did
not read. If in your original post you had said that you required the
device to work in Vista rather than just "Windows" I would have advised
that there was a good chance it would not work. I got the G-202 as part
of a package deal and as the "spec" says works in XP, with limitations
on encryption, however I downloaded the Vista Utility to my Vista "play"
machine and the Vista Utility does not contain the "SoftAP" function and
I would think this applies to all their Vista Utilities.
If you wish to find a system that works in Vista you would stand a
better chance with the Ralink Chipsets. Check the release notes:-
<http://www.ralinktech.com/ralink/Home/Support/Windows.html>

On Jul 2, 1:00*pm, LR <l...@privacy.net> wrote:
> Le Chaud Lapin wrote:
> > On Jul 2, 1:43 am, LR <l...@privacy.net> wrote:
> >> Le Chaud Lapin wrote:
> >>> [NOTE: To those reading this post, this is not just a rant. *I will
> >>> likely sue this company for false advertising as a matter of
> >>> principle. *What would help me greatly is if you could simply take a
> >>> look at the following link, and make a mental note (or otherwise)
> >>> that, as of 2008-07-08, there is nothing on the product description
> >>> page that says that the Access Point feature of the device cannot be
> >>> used under Windows Vista.]
> >>>http://tinyurl.com/6zr6zn
> >> Under Specifications
>
> >> System Requirement
>
> >> * * ** Notebook or PC with the Pentium II
> >> * * * * * *o 300 MHz or compatible above
> >> * * * * * *o Minimum 32MB RAM (64MB Recommended)
> >> * * * * * *o A minimum of 20MB available hard disk space
> >> * * * * * *o A CD ROM drive
> >> * * * * * *o USB Type A slot (V2.0/V1.1 Comparable)
> >> * * * * * *o Microsoft Windows XP/2000
>
> >> * No mention of Vista
>
> > This link [http://tinyurl.com/6zr6zn] is the main link for the product
> > description page.
>
> > It has "Microsoft Vista Support Out of the Box" written in bold
> > letters.
>
> > I think that counts as a "mention of Vista".
>
> > -Le Chaud Lapin-
>
> That link also includes the specification page which you evidently did
> not read. If in your original post you had said that you required the
> device to work in Vista rather than just "Windows" I would have advised
> that there was a good chance it would not work. I got the G-202 as part
> of a package deal and as the "spec" says works in XP, with limitations
> on encryption, however I downloaded the Vista Utility to my Vista "play"
> machine and the Vista Utility does not contain the "SoftAP" function and
> I would think this applies to all their Vista Utilities.
> * *If you wish to find a system that works in Vista you would stand a
> better chance with the Ralink Chipsets. Check the release notes:-
> * <http://www.ralinktech.com/ralink/Home/Support/Windows.html>-

Given that one of the few distinguishing features claimed by the
AG-225H is that it can work as a Softwware Access Point, and given
that it is obvious from the main page for this product that customers
are worried about Vista support, what would be wrong with Zyxel simply
putting an asterisk next to the blurb that reads "Microsoft Vista
Support Out Of The Box!" that indicates to customer that "Software
Access Point feature will not work on Vista."

That way, any customer who comes across the page, after searching
specifically for a dongle that has software access point feature and
Vista support, seeing "Software Access Point" and "Microsoft Vista
Support Out Of The Box!" on the same page, within a few paragraphs of
each other, will not be mislead into thinking that the Software Access
Point feature is supported on Vista.

That's what happened in my case. I googled SoftAP Vista dongle. Zyxel
came up. I went to the main product page, and there it was, with no
qualifications.

I did not go to the product support page since I had not yet had a
product that needed supporting.

-Le Chaud Lapin-

TLDR

Quit whinging about it and move on.

On Jul 4, 6:17*am, "Bill Kearney" <wkearne...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> TLDR
>
> Quit whinging about it and move on.

No one asked your opinion.

-Le Chaud Lapin-