Yahoo Broadband & 3COM Router?

Hi

A friend of mine has just taken on a 512K connection with BT Yahoo as an
upgrade from her dialup account. She is connecting using the supplied
(Free) Voyager ADSL modem which is connected to her PC via Ethernet.

She wants to share across 2 PCs so hubby can surf as well so I suggested a
3COM ADSL Firewalled Router. Mine has worked fine for months now.

I can't get the thing to connect!

I have got the sync LED steady and the connect LED flashes as if it is
negotiating a connection but no joy.

I have tried changing her password to a 10 character as her previous
password was 15 characters long and I wondered if that may be an issue, but
that's made no difference.

I can plug back into the Voyager modem and everything works fine.

I have checked the 3Com & BT Yahoo web sites for clues but no help there,
I'm afraid.

Her PC is using Norton firewall instead of the built in XP thingy.

She has XPSP2 Home.

BT Web site calls for:

DNS = Auto (OK)
VPI = 0 (OK)
VCI = 38 (OK)
Authetication = CHAP (Can't find this)
Modulation = G.DMT (Nor this)
Encapsulation = VC Mux (OK)
Ptrotocol = PPOa (OK)

Can anyone offer any suggestions?

--
Best regards
Barry

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
BJH <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Hi
>
> A friend of mine has just taken on a 512K connection with BT Yahoo as
> an upgrade from her dialup account. She is connecting using the
> supplied (Free) Voyager ADSL modem which is connected to her PC via
> Ethernet.
>
> She wants to share across 2 PCs so hubby can surf as well so I
> suggested a 3COM ADSL Firewalled Router. Mine has worked fine for
> months now.
>
> I can't get the thing to connect!
>
> I have got the sync LED steady and the connect LED flashes as if it is
> negotiating a connection but no joy.
>
> I have tried changing her password to a 10 character as her previous
> password was 15 characters long and I wondered if that may be an
> issue, but that's made no difference.
>
> I can plug back into the Voyager modem and everything works fine.
>
> I have checked the 3Com & BT Yahoo web sites for clues but no help
> there, I'm afraid.
>
> Her PC is using Norton firewall instead of the built in XP thingy.
>
> She has XPSP2 Home.
>
> BT Web site calls for:
>
> DNS = Auto (OK)
> VPI = 0 (OK)
> VCI = 38 (OK)
> Authetication = CHAP (Can't find this)
> Modulation = G.DMT (Nor this)
> Encapsulation = VC Mux (OK)
> Ptrotocol = PPOa (OK)
>
> Can anyone offer any suggestions?

It's possible that the BT account is officially limited to one PC, and that
it doesn't like talking to a router. You may need to spoof the MAC address
which the router presents to the line, to pretend that it is the PC's
network card. The 3Com router has a facility for doing this. If you go the
router's admin menu (point your browser at the router's IP address), there
is an item called "Hostname and MAC address" under Internet Settings. This
enables you to "clone" your computer's MAC address.
--
Cheers,
Tim
______
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On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 18:55:06 -0000, Tiscali Tim wrote:

> It's possible that the BT account is officially limited to one PC, and that
> it doesn't like talking to a router. You may need to spoof the MAC address
> which the router presents to the line, to pretend that it is the PC's
> network card. The 3Com router has a facility for doing this. If you go the
> router's admin menu (point your browser at the router's IP address), there
> is an item called "Hostname and MAC address" under Internet Settings. This
> enables you to "clone" your computer's MAC address.

Thanks Tim, I'll try that when I go over there again.

Just out of interest, how does BT know the difference between the Router's
MAC address and any network card MAC address? Is the format different?

Also is the hostname relevant to this? I only ask 'cos I noticed you could
fill in a value for that as well.

--
Best regards
Barry

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
BJH <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 18:55:06 -0000, Tiscali Tim wrote:
>
>> It's possible that the BT account is officially limited to one PC,
>> and that it doesn't like talking to a router. You may need to spoof
>> the MAC address which the router presents to the line, to pretend
>> that it is the PC's network card. The 3Com router has a facility for
>> doing this. If you go the router's admin menu (point your browser at
>> the router's IP address), there is an item called "Hostname and MAC
>> address" under Internet Settings. This enables you to "clone" your
>> computer's MAC address.
>
> Thanks Tim, I'll try that when I go over there again.
>
> Just out of interest, how does BT know the difference between the
> Router's MAC address and any network card MAC address? Is the format
> different?
>
> Also is the hostname relevant to this? I only ask 'cos I noticed you
> could fill in a value for that as well.

I'm not an expert - this is just something I have heard about in passing. I
assume that when you first connect, BT/Yahoo remembers the MAC address of
your PC and builds this into the logon validation process. I don't really
know about hostname. Maybe, if it's relevant, hitting the "clone" button
puts the appropriate value in there too?

FWIW, here's the relevant bit from the router's Help file:
MAC address
MAC is an acronym for Media Access Controller. All network components
including cards, adapters, and routers, have a unique "serial number" called
a MAC address. Your ISP may record the MAC address of your computer's
adapter and only let that particular computer connect to the Internet
service. When you install the router, the Router's own MAC address will be
"seen" by the ISP and may cause the connection not to work. 3Com has
provided the ability to clone (copy) the MAC address of the computer into
the router. This MAC address, in turn, will be seen by the ISP's system as
the original MAC address and will allow the connection to work. If you are
not sure if your ISP needs to see the original MAC address, simply clone the
MAC address of the computer that was originally connected to the modem.
Cloning the address will not cause any problems with your network.
To Clone your MAC address, make sure that you are using the computer that
was ORIGINALLY CONNECTED to your modem before the Router was installed.
Click the "Clone MAC address" button. Click "Apply". Your MAC address is now
cloned to the router.
--
Cheers,
Tim
______
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On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 21:29:50 -0000, Tiscali Tim wrote:

> In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
> BJH <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 18:55:06 -0000, Tiscali Tim wrote:
>>
>>> It's possible that the BT account is officially limited to one PC,
>>> and that it doesn't like talking to a router. You may need to spoof
>>> the MAC address which the router presents to the line, to pretend
>>> that it is the PC's network card. The 3Com router has a facility for
>>> doing this. If you go the router's admin menu (point your browser at
>>> the router's IP address), there is an item called "Hostname and MAC
>>> address" under Internet Settings. This enables you to "clone" your
>>> computer's MAC address.
>>
>> Thanks Tim, I'll try that when I go over there again.
>>
>> Just out of interest, how does BT know the difference between the
>> Router's MAC address and any network card MAC address? Is the format
>> different?
>>
>> Also is the hostname relevant to this? I only ask 'cos I noticed you
>> could fill in a value for that as well.
>
> I'm not an expert - this is just something I have heard about in passing. I
> assume that when you first connect, BT/Yahoo remembers the MAC address of
> your PC and builds this into the logon validation process. I don't really
> know about hostname. Maybe, if it's relevant, hitting the "clone" button
> puts the appropriate value in there too?
>
> FWIW, here's the relevant bit from the router's Help file:
> MAC address
> MAC is an acronym for Media Access Controller. All network components
> including cards, adapters, and routers, have a unique "serial number" called
> a MAC address. Your ISP may record the MAC address of your computer's
> adapter and only let that particular computer connect to the Internet
> service. When you install the router, the Router's own MAC address will be
> "seen" by the ISP and may cause the connection not to work. 3Com has
> provided the ability to clone (copy) the MAC address of the computer into
> the router. This MAC address, in turn, will be seen by the ISP's system as
> the original MAC address and will allow the connection to work. If you are
> not sure if your ISP needs to see the original MAC address, simply clone the
> MAC address of the computer that was originally connected to the modem.
> Cloning the address will not cause any problems with your network.
> To Clone your MAC address, make sure that you are using the computer that
> was ORIGINALLY CONNECTED to your modem before the Router was installed.
> Click the "Clone MAC address" button. Click "Apply". Your MAC address is now
> cloned to the router.

I'm no expert on this issue either, Tim. It's interesting that mine isn't
the only experience of this issue. On the Expansys forum is another user
having the same issue with his BTINTERNET (Yahoo) connection. Yet, a friend
of mine with a BTCONNECT (business) account and my own connection with
another ISP work fine.

I have checked the BTYahoo web site and that gives all the information to
connect a router but also says that BT offer no tech support if they don't
supply the router.

So it seems to me that BT are deliberately obstructing the connection of a
router not supplied by themselves. I wouldn't mind that as such, but its
not exactly a cheap service they provide in any event.

I understand your suggestion but it just occurs to me that if you change
your network card then the MAC address would change anyway. But then maybe
the BT Voyager modem takes care of that and reassigns a new MAC address to
the logon process?

--
Best regards
Barry

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
BJH <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
> I understand your suggestion but it just occurs to me that if you
> change your network card then the MAC address would change anyway.
> But then maybe the BT Voyager modem takes care of that and reassigns
> a new MAC address to the logon process?

Presumably there's some procedure for telling your ISP that you've got a new
computer/network card/whatever so that they change their records to allow it
to connect.

I don't know whether you can do this with a router - or whether the address
range is different. But if the MAC address spoofing works, it doesn't matter
because you can then connect as many different PCs as you like to the router
without telling your ISP.
--
Cheers,
Tim
______
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On Sun, 5 Dec 2004 12:19:06 -0000, Tiscali Tim wrote:

> Presumably there's some procedure for telling your ISP that you've got a
> new computer/network card/whatever so that they change their records to
> allow it to connect.

> I don't know whether you can do this with a router - or whether the
> address range is different. But if the MAC address spoofing works, it
> doesn't matter because you can then connect as many different PCs as you
> like to the router without telling your ISP.

Ah well, it was a good idea, but came to naught I'm afraid. :>(

So now I'm stuck again.

I've checked the Yahoo web site and that states quite clearly that to share
a connection a router must be used. It doesn't say that you *can't* use a
router but it does say that BT will only support routers it supplies. Can't
grumble with that I suppose.

I've got another make of router doing nothing so I may try that as a long
shot. It's a noname elcheapo thingy from the Far East but its worth a try.

But if it doesn't have a BT label on it it probably won't work? Me,
cynical?

If any one knows the answer please tell!

--
Best regards
Barry

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
BJH <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
> Ah well, it was a good idea, but came to naught I'm afraid. :>(
>
Oh well, it was worth a try!


> So now I'm stuck again.
>
Are you *absolutely* sure that you have the logon account name correct? I
ask because, with PlusNet, the account name format is different between a
dial-up account and an ADSL account - even for the same account. Your friend
may not have had to enter this into the ADSL modem since it may have been
supplied ready configured - and may be assuming that it's the same as for
the previous dial-up account. Have a close look at any sign-up information
supplied by BT-Yahoo.
[PlusNet example: Dial-up - {username} ADSL: {username}@plus.net]

>
> But if it doesn't have a BT label on it it probably won't work? Me,
> cynical?
>
No, I doubt whether that is the problem!

--
Cheers,
Tim
______
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On Mon, 6 Dec 2004 18:37:54 -0000, Tiscali Tim wrote:

> Are you *absolutely* sure that you have the logon account name correct? I
> ask because, with PlusNet, the account name format is different between
> a dial-up account and an ADSL account - even for the same account. Your
> friend may not have had to enter this into the ADSL modem since it may
> have been supplied ready configured - and may be assuming that it's the
> same as for the previous dial-up account. Have a close look at any
> sign-up information supplied by BT-Yahoo.

The poster on the expansys forum who was having the same sort of problem
has managed to get it going, so at least we now know that its not a router
problem.

In his case it was caused by a phone on another extension plugged into an
unfiltered socket.

In my friends case all she has is a Master socket along the landing with an
extension to her office. In the extension is plugged the BT supplied filter
and she has her fax plugged into the filtered outlet. AFAIK there are no
other phones or sockets. But I intend to make up a lead using one of my own
filtered faceplates and run straight back to the Master and give that a
try.

This is a precis of the Expansys forum posting:

Make sure all phones attached to the line have a microfilter attached, if
you have any phone without a microfilter, this can cause some kind of
bizarre feedback effect that affects the BB line. Some modems (e.g. the
3Com) are more sensitive to this than others (i.e. the BT Voyager). I had a
phone that is never used attached to an extension that did not have a
microfilter, removed the phone and all was well ! (This despite the fact
that the BB hangs off of the same extension and has its own microfilter
....)

I'll let you know if I succeed...

--
Best regards
Barry

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
BJH <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
> In my friends case all she has is a Master socket along the landing
> with an extension to her office. In the extension is plugged the BT
> supplied filter and she has her fax plugged into the filtered outlet.
> AFAIK there are no other phones or sockets. But I intend to make up a
> lead using one of my own filtered faceplates and run straight back to
> the Master and give that a try.
>

So doesn't she have a phone at all? Where is the router plugged in? What is
plugged into the master socket? [If there's a phone in the master, it *must*
be filtered!]

--
Cheers,
Tim
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