XP wireless questions ...setting encryption

Hey all,

I set up a lot of gateways for comcast as a contractor. I am not claiming
to be any sort of expert. I am self taught and the company I work for does
not have any formal training on the wireless networks. I do not deal with
the file and printer sharing part of it, just internet access. I set up the
router with the 128 bit wep encryption and thats all they really are
requiring.

I have some questions for myself though.

1- I put in the wep key when I try to connect with whatever wireless
computer. I then go to the properties and also paste the wep key in the two
places there. I keep the option of "shared" instead of open. I also
uncheck the "enable 802.1x authentification". Then usually hit "ok" and
then get out of the menus. I will often reboot the pc in question and
connect to make sure all is well. Should these steps be taken? Are they
correct for a minimal setup with encryption enabled? Why is it sometimes
the wep key is not saved in the options menu for the network; I sometimes
have to repeat this step twice?

2- What are the minimal steps necessary to make Win 2000 Pro get onto a
wireless network (assuming the network card drivers are installed). Is this
the same sort of procedures you would use for Win95 as well? The two look
similar in that respect.

The two manufacturers I use are primarily Linksys and Netgear. These are
the ones they offer from my company.

Thanks for any tips,

SL

On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 06:55:48 -0500, "SL" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>1- I put in the wep key when I try to connect with whatever wireless
>computer. I then go to the properties and also paste the wep key in the two
>places there. I keep the option of "shared" instead of open. I also
>uncheck the "enable 802.1x authentification". Then usually hit "ok" and
>then get out of the menus. I will often reboot the pc in question and
>connect to make sure all is well. Should these steps be taken? Are they
>correct for a minimal setup with encryption enabled? Why is it sometimes
>the wep key is not saved in the options menu for the network; I sometimes
>have to repeat this step twice?

Sorta.

802.1x authentication is only used with WPA encryption. It can be
used with WEP or no encryption, but requires a RADIUS server to do the
authentication. If you have XP SP2 installed, the selection of 802.1x
should be automaticly set correctly. However, SP1 and before allow
you to turn on 802.1x authentication, when it's not needed, resulting
in a disconnect after 10 minutes.

As for open versus shared authentication, the correct answer is open.
Shared means shared key, which for WEP uses the encryption key for
authentication. This give a sniffer both the encrypted and
unencrypted keys, which makes WEP key recovery almost trivial. It
should be set to open, not shared.

http://seclists.org/lists/security-b.../Jan/0094.html
http://www.experts-exchange.com/Netw..._21459081.html

>2- What are the minimal steps necessary to make Win 2000 Pro get onto a
>wireless network (assuming the network card drivers are installed). Is this
>the same sort of procedures you would use for Win95 as well? The two look
>similar in that respect.

Hopefully, you're not doing any Windoze 95 installs. The steps for
Win2000 are roughly the same as for XP and are usually detailed in the
documentation for the wireless client. The problem is that you have a
choice of wirless clients. There's:
1. The manufacturers client program (e.g. Intel Proset)
2. Windoze Wireless Zero Config
3. Boingo client.
4. T-Mobile (Starbucks) client.
5. Odyssy client (Funk Software)
6. A few dozen others.
7. Add some network front end programs. (Toshiba Config-Free, IBM
Thinkvantage)
Obviously, the proceedures vary. However, all of these have some type
of "search for wireless networks" feature. Use it, double click on
the network name, and enter the encryption key. For WEP, if the ASCII
encryption key fails, then try again with the HEX version of the key.

>The two manufacturers I use are primarily Linksys and Netgear. These are
>the ones they offer from my company.

Well, time for some heresy. Both these vendors have some products
with broken drivers. The very first thing I do is download the
lastest update from their web pile. I don't even bother trying what's
in the box. For Linksys, I kinda prefer Windoze Wireless Zero Config.
For Netgear, FirstGear is quite good and useful.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558 (E-Mail Removed)
# http://802.11junk.com (E-Mail Removed)
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

Thanks much Jeff,

You answered my questions quite well. I will look into some of the options
you mention for Win2000. The only trouble is time, its not on my side..
I think my issue with Win2k is my associating IE (which comcast is
requiring) to find the wireless adaptor like it looks for the LAN. I simply
do not have any personal experience with that OS. Plus, the machines I seem
to of have run into are slow by todays standards, and the customers seem to
even more outdated than the machine. Lots of reboots and every possible
popup from their leftover AOL dialup connection. I don't think I need to
say more on that issue.

Sorry, I may be sounding malicious. Thats not my intent. I average about
a 12-14 hour day and a slow pc with bloatware will test the nerves.

Anyways, in regards to the brand of gateway, I guess they seem the same to
me for the most part. I never use the Linksys software for drivers. I can
agree with your comment. I as a matter of fact made my fellow tech's a disk
with the current drivers from their site. I test stuff on my personal pc's
at home and found the current drivers are always better. I guess thats
pretty much a universal thing with all pc stuff. Im more of a hardware guy.
I certainly know the "latest drivers" issue. Plus, I found that the
pc/laptop that some other techs load the packeged software/drivers make
things difficult. The linksys software that loads will prevent WinXp from
running the show and usually never connects. If I load drivers only, and
let WinXp/98 etc... take over, there are no issues.

Anyways Jeff, you have been quite helpful. Any other tips of course are
appreciated.

Happy St. Patricks day by the way...

SL





"Jeff Liebermann" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 06:55:48 -0500, "SL" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>1- I put in the wep key when I try to connect with whatever wireless
>>computer. I then go to the properties and also paste the wep key in the
>>two
>>places there. I keep the option of "shared" instead of open. I also
>>uncheck the "enable 802.1x authentification". Then usually hit "ok" and
>>then get out of the menus. I will often reboot the pc in question and
>>connect to make sure all is well. Should these steps be taken? Are they
>>correct for a minimal setup with encryption enabled? Why is it sometimes
>>the wep key is not saved in the options menu for the network; I sometimes
>>have to repeat this step twice?
>
> Sorta.
>
> 802.1x authentication is only used with WPA encryption. It can be
> used with WEP or no encryption, but requires a RADIUS server to do the
> authentication. If you have XP SP2 installed, the selection of 802.1x
> should be automaticly set correctly. However, SP1 and before allow
> you to turn on 802.1x authentication, when it's not needed, resulting
> in a disconnect after 10 minutes.
>
> As for open versus shared authentication, the correct answer is open.
> Shared means shared key, which for WEP uses the encryption key for
> authentication. This give a sniffer both the encrypted and
> unencrypted keys, which makes WEP key recovery almost trivial. It
> should be set to open, not shared.
>
> http://seclists.org/lists/security-b.../Jan/0094.html
> http://www.experts-exchange.com/Netw..._21459081.html
>
>>2- What are the minimal steps necessary to make Win 2000 Pro get onto a
>>wireless network (assuming the network card drivers are installed). Is
>>this
>>the same sort of procedures you would use for Win95 as well? The two look
>>similar in that respect.
>
> Hopefully, you're not doing any Windoze 95 installs. The steps for
> Win2000 are roughly the same as for XP and are usually detailed in the
> documentation for the wireless client. The problem is that you have a
> choice of wirless clients. There's:
> 1. The manufacturers client program (e.g. Intel Proset)
> 2. Windoze Wireless Zero Config
> 3. Boingo client.
> 4. T-Mobile (Starbucks) client.
> 5. Odyssy client (Funk Software)
> 6. A few dozen others.
> 7. Add some network front end programs. (Toshiba Config-Free, IBM
> Thinkvantage)
> Obviously, the proceedures vary. However, all of these have some type
> of "search for wireless networks" feature. Use it, double click on
> the network name, and enter the encryption key. For WEP, if the ASCII
> encryption key fails, then try again with the HEX version of the key.
>
>>The two manufacturers I use are primarily Linksys and Netgear. These are
>>the ones they offer from my company.
>
> Well, time for some heresy. Both these vendors have some products
> with broken drivers. The very first thing I do is download the
> lastest update from their web pile. I don't even bother trying what's
> in the box. For Linksys, I kinda prefer Windoze Wireless Zero Config.
> For Netgear, FirstGear is quite good and useful.
>
> --
> # Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
> # 831-336-2558 (E-Mail Removed)
> # http://802.11junk.com (E-Mail Removed)
> # http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 00:00:43 -0500, "SL" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>You answered my questions quite well. I will look into some of the options
>you mention for Win2000.

Well, Windoze 2000 is fairly close to XP but the differences will
drive you nuts. The big problem is recovering from a registry
trashout. That can happen when you install almost anything. With XP,
you have "System Restore" to handle things almost automagically. With
Windoze 2000, the best you can do without adding additional software
is MS Backup. Try it:
Start -> Programs -> Accessories -> System Tools -> Backup.
Run the Wizard and when it asks what to backup, check the box that
says "Registry and System Files only" (or something like that). Find
an empty directory to drop it into. It will save about 200Mbytes of
system files every time you run it.. It's better than nothing.

>The only trouble is time, its not on my side..

On the job learning is rough if you make a mistake. Practice on your
own machines.

>I think my issue with Win2k is my associating IE (which comcast is
>requiring) to find the wireless adaptor like it looks for the LAN.

No. The issue is the most cable companies assume that the user has a
working browser in order to do the initial registration and signup.
There are more than a few ways to misconfigure a browser. In
addition, the common spyware and a few plugins, tend to make the
browser glitchy, slow, and useless. However, it's the only common
user interface around. If you have Firefox or Opera available on the
customers machine, I would certainly use them as IE6 tends to be a
major security problem, especially on machines that have never seen an
update.

>I simply
>do not have any personal experience with that OS.

>Plus, the machines I seem
>to of have run into are slow by todays standards, and the customers seem to
>even more outdated than the machine. Lots of reboots and every possible
>popup from their leftover AOL dialup connection. I don't think I need to
>say more on that issue.

Actually, brand new machines from Dell and Gateway also come with
excessive software, irritating popups, demands for registration, and
such. Just think of the spyware as a replacement for what Dell and
Gateway supply with a new machine.

>Sorry, I may be sounding malicious. Thats not my intent. I average about
>a 12-14 hour day and a slow pc with bloatware will test the nerves.

Yeah, I know the feeling. One of my customers has PII/300 with
128MBytes of ram running XP. I can't seem to convince him that he
should either allow me to add more ram, or get a new machine. That
stupendous decision has so far taken months with no decision.

>Anyways, in regards to the brand of gateway, I guess they seem the same to
>me for the most part. I never use the Linksys software for drivers. I can
>agree with your comment. I as a matter of fact made my fellow tech's a disk
>with the current drivers from their site. I test stuff on my personal pc's
>at home and found the current drivers are always better. I guess thats
>pretty much a universal thing with all pc stuff. Im more of a hardware guy.
>I certainly know the "latest drivers" issue. Plus, I found that the
>pc/laptop that some other techs load the packeged software/drivers make
>things difficult. The linksys software that loads will prevent WinXp from
>running the show and usually never connects. If I load drivers only, and
>let WinXp/98 etc... take over, there are no issues.
>
>Anyways Jeff, you have been quite helpful. Any other tips of course are
>appreciated.
>
>Happy St. Patricks day by the way...
>
>SL

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558 (E-Mail Removed)
# http://802.11junk.com (E-Mail Removed)
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

Thanks Jeff,

Your replys had me laughing a little at the utterly dim situations that can
happen. I like the PII 300 machine. Do you boot that on Monday and check
on it by Wednesday? That must run as fast as molassas running up hill in
wintertime.

Your tips will help. Thanks again,
Sean L
"Jeff Liebermann" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 00:00:43 -0500, "SL" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>You answered my questions quite well. I will look into some of the
>>options
>>you mention for Win2000.
>
> Well, Windoze 2000 is fairly close to XP but the differences will
> drive you nuts. The big problem is recovering from a registry
> trashout. That can happen when you install almost anything. With XP,
> you have "System Restore" to handle things almost automagically. With
> Windoze 2000, the best you can do without adding additional software
> is MS Backup. Try it:
> Start -> Programs -> Accessories -> System Tools -> Backup.
> Run the Wizard and when it asks what to backup, check the box that
> says "Registry and System Files only" (or something like that). Find
> an empty directory to drop it into. It will save about 200Mbytes of
> system files every time you run it.. It's better than nothing.
>
>>The only trouble is time, its not on my side..
>
> On the job learning is rough if you make a mistake. Practice on your
> own machines.
>
>>I think my issue with Win2k is my associating IE (which comcast is
>>requiring) to find the wireless adaptor like it looks for the LAN.
>
> No. The issue is the most cable companies assume that the user has a
> working browser in order to do the initial registration and signup.
> There are more than a few ways to misconfigure a browser. In
> addition, the common spyware and a few plugins, tend to make the
> browser glitchy, slow, and useless. However, it's the only common
> user interface around. If you have Firefox or Opera available on the
> customers machine, I would certainly use them as IE6 tends to be a
> major security problem, especially on machines that have never seen an
> update.
>
>>I simply
>>do not have any personal experience with that OS.
>
>>Plus, the machines I seem
>>to of have run into are slow by todays standards, and the customers seem
>>to
>>even more outdated than the machine. Lots of reboots and every possible
>>popup from their leftover AOL dialup connection. I don't think I need to
>>say more on that issue.
>
> Actually, brand new machines from Dell and Gateway also come with
> excessive software, irritating popups, demands for registration, and
> such. Just think of the spyware as a replacement for what Dell and
> Gateway supply with a new machine.
>
>>Sorry, I may be sounding malicious. Thats not my intent. I average
>>about
>>a 12-14 hour day and a slow pc with bloatware will test the nerves.
>
> Yeah, I know the feeling. One of my customers has PII/300 with
> 128MBytes of ram running XP. I can't seem to convince him that he
> should either allow me to add more ram, or get a new machine. That
> stupendous decision has so far taken months with no decision.
>
>>Anyways, in regards to the brand of gateway, I guess they seem the same to
>>me for the most part. I never use the Linksys software for drivers. I
>>can
>>agree with your comment. I as a matter of fact made my fellow tech's a
>>disk
>>with the current drivers from their site. I test stuff on my personal
>>pc's
>>at home and found the current drivers are always better. I guess thats
>>pretty much a universal thing with all pc stuff. Im more of a hardware
>>guy.
>>I certainly know the "latest drivers" issue. Plus, I found that the
>>pc/laptop that some other techs load the packeged software/drivers make
>>things difficult. The linksys software that loads will prevent WinXp from
>>running the show and usually never connects. If I load drivers only, and
>>let WinXp/98 etc... take over, there are no issues.
>>
>>Anyways Jeff, you have been quite helpful. Any other tips of course are
>>appreciated.
>>
>>Happy St. Patricks day by the way...
>>
>>SL
>
> --
> # Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
> # 831-336-2558 (E-Mail Removed)
> # http://802.11junk.com (E-Mail Removed)
> # http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 21:16:45 -0500, "SL" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Your replys had me laughing a little at the utterly dim situations that can
>happen. I like the PII 300 machine. Do you boot that on Monday and check
>on it by Wednesday? That must run as fast as molassas running up hill in
>wintertime.

The PII/300 with XP and 128MBytes of RAM is one of my customers
machines. It's amazingly stable once it boots since it only runs one
legal application. However, it did take about 5 minutes to boot.

Incidentally, my billing machine is a Dell PII/333 running W2K and is
one of the fastest Windoze machines I have. Only 256MBytes but it has
an Adaptec 2940 SCSI controller running a Quantum something 10,000 RPM
drive. Most of the P4 3GHz machine spend their spare time waiting for
disk I/O.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558 (E-Mail Removed)
# http://802.11junk.com (E-Mail Removed)
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS