WRT54G router and X (also Netgear)

Hi,
I just made a switch from my old linksys nonwireless DSL/cable router to the
WRT54G. I have a linux box set as the DMZ host. I have developed a problem:
I run X applications remotely and now it looks like if any X window has no
activity for about 10 minutes, the connection to it is dropped (the NAT port
mapping expires?). I tried a Netgear router with the same problem.

My question is: is this normal behaviour for newer routers?
If so, will upgrading the firmware of the WRT54G allow me to change it?
Can the firmware of the WRT54G Version 5 be upgraded with 3rd party firmware?

Alternatively, can I use the old Linksys router to do the NAT and DHCP and use
the new WRT54G to do wireless only?

Thanks!
Ian

Ian <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Hi,
>I just made a switch from my old linksys nonwireless DSL/cable router to the
>WRT54G. I have a linux box set as the DMZ host. I have developed a problem:
>I run X applications remotely and now it looks like if any X window has no
>activity for about 10 minutes, the connection to it is dropped (the NAT port
>mapping expires?). I tried a Netgear router with the same problem.
>
>My question is: is this normal behaviour for newer routers?
>If so, will upgrading the firmware of the WRT54G allow me to change it?
>Can the firmware of the WRT54G Version 5 be upgraded with 3rd party firmware?
>
>Alternatively, can I use the old Linksys router to do the NAT and DHCP and use
>the new WRT54G to do wireless only?
>
>Thanks!
>Ian

I can't comment on your X problems BUT I use a WRT54G and a BEFW11S4
set up as wireless AP's and "dumb hub's" only. My Linux box is my
router.

From memory, I configured the wireless settings for the Linksys
devices and deactivated the WAN and dhcp services. The admin port IP
still works just fine.

I run a dhcpd service on my Linux box and it routes through the "APs"
as well.

The only problem I am having is that my cordless phone knocks out the
"G" sometimes. I just can't connect while the cordless is active ...
but not every time the phone is used ... very strange. The "B" device
just keeps chugging. If you forget to deactivate the WAN port on the
BEFW your wireless will shut down every few hours and you'll have to
power cycle (or otherwise hard reset) the device.

Good luck!
--
------------------------------------------------
http://www3.sympatico.ca/dmitton
SPAM Reduction: Remove "x." from my domain.
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Ian wrote:
> Hi,
> I just made a switch from my old linksys nonwireless DSL/cable router to the
> WRT54G. I have a linux box set as the DMZ host. I have developed a problem:
> I run X applications remotely and now it looks like if any X window has no
> activity for about 10 minutes, the connection to it is dropped (the NAT port
> mapping expires?). I tried a Netgear router with the same problem.

What version is your wrt54g? The new v5 routers no longer run Linux
inside and they have half the memory. Down to 2MB flash, 8MB ram
running vxWorks.

> My question is: is this normal behaviour for newer routers?

Don't know, but with less memory ...

Also having wireless clients could affect it. They use more memory and
processing resources than ethernet clients.

> If so, will upgrading the firmware of the WRT54G allow me to change it?

If it's a v5 router, the only firmware available will come from Linksys
and, yes, they've already posted at least one update. Seems the new
router is a bit buggy?

> Can the firmware of the WRT54G Version 5 be upgraded with 3rd party firmware?

No. And indications are that no one is going to even try. For now it
looks like the only options are wrt54GL or wrt54GSv<5 (the wrt54GSv5s
are also running with less memory and vxWorks) unless you spot an
older version on a back shelf. I'm not even sure how long the
wrt54GSv4 models will remain on shelves. Wish I had some of the
GSv2&v3s I used at customers' premises -- 8MB flash and 32MB ram.

> Alternatively, can I use the old Linksys router to do the NAT and DHCP and use
> the new WRT54G to do wireless only?

This may be a way to go. Depends on the "old" Linksys model/version.

OTOH, there may be some "magic" config combo that will allow the router
to work as you want. Have you tried simply forwarding selected ports
to the dmz box rather than using the router's dmz (all ports)
forwarding feature?

I've not even bothered to look at what's available on the v5 routers
beyond the web interface settings. Don't even know if there _are_ any
other options/configs.

I did manage to find a v2 router at Walmart and look for pre v5 routers
whenever I'm in one. Walmart is not a hotbed of Linux users. For
customers, I've already decided to go with the wrt54GL when I need one.

good luck,
prg

PS for anyone wondering how to tell wrt54G versions.
-- wrt54G:
http://wiki.openwrt.org/OpenWrtDocs/...6cc5845eb29751
-- wrt54GS:
http://wiki.openwrt.org/OpenWrtDocs/...9a4bb3b0fc9a48

Doug Mitton wrote:
> Ian <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> I just made a switch from my old linksys nonwireless DSL/cable router to the
>> WRT54G. I have a linux box set as the DMZ host. I have developed a problem:
>> I run X applications remotely and now it looks like if any X window has no
>> activity for about 10 minutes, the connection to it is dropped (the NAT port
>> mapping expires?). I tried a Netgear router with the same problem.
>>
>> My question is: is this normal behaviour for newer routers?
>> If so, will upgrading the firmware of the WRT54G allow me to change it?
>> Can the firmware of the WRT54G Version 5 be upgraded with 3rd party firmware?
>>
>> Alternatively, can I use the old Linksys router to do the NAT and DHCP and use
>> the new WRT54G to do wireless only?
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Ian
>
> I can't comment on your X problems BUT I use a WRT54G and a BEFW11S4
> set up as wireless AP's and "dumb hub's" only. My Linux box is my
> router.
>
> From memory, I configured the wireless settings for the Linksys
> devices and deactivated the WAN and dhcp services. The admin port IP
> still works just fine.
>
> I run a dhcpd service on my Linux box and it routes through the "APs"
> as well.
>
> The only problem I am having is that my cordless phone knocks out the
> "G" sometimes. I just can't connect while the cordless is active ...
> but not every time the phone is used ... very strange. The "B" device
> just keeps chugging. If you forget to deactivate the WAN port on the
> BEFW your wireless will shut down every few hours and you'll have to
> power cycle (or otherwise hard reset) the device.
>
> Good luck!

I may just leave the old linksys that worked in place and use the new one as a
dumb wireless access point. Too bad, I was hoping for a drop-in replacement for
the old linksys that would also do wireless. I don't feel like adding another
network card to my linux system, it seems like work for someone who does
sysadmin by necessity only...

Now, does anyone know if some of the open source firmware available for the
WRT54G will fix my problem? Or should I just give up?

Yanko

Thanks for the help. I have a friend who has a v4 and wouldn't mind swapping
with me. I have a couple more questions pertaining to your response, see below:

prg wrote:
>
>> My question is: is this normal behaviour for newer routers?
>
> Don't know, but with less memory ...
>
> Also having wireless clients could affect it. They use more memory and
> processing resources than ethernet clients.

OK, but the connection is lost EXACTLY in 10 minutes, traffic or not, wireless
or not. So it must be a new "feature" they've introduced. I'm frustrated because
I can't find ANY information on this magic 10 min period. Linksys themselves say
they know nothing about it. Or it might just be a coincidence.

> OTOH, there may be some "magic" config combo that will allow the router
> to work as you want. Have you tried simply forwarding selected ports
> to the dmz box rather than using the router's dmz (all ports)
> forwarding feature?

I'm playing with various settings on the router, so far no difference. What I'm
actually doing is I'm running an X server at work so I can run X applications on
my home computer, which is behind the router. So, the computer running the X
application doesn't even need to be a DMZ host, or have any ports forwarded,
because it is a client and initiates the connection by talking to port 6000 on
the server. So this is an `outgoing' port mapping (is this the right terminology?)

Thanks again for your help!

Ian

>
> I've not even bothered to look at what's available on the v5 routers
> beyond the web interface settings. Don't even know if there _are_ any
> other options/configs.
>
> I did manage to find a v2 router at Walmart and look for pre v5 routers
> whenever I'm in one. Walmart is not a hotbed of Linux users. For
> customers, I've already decided to go with the wrt54GL when I need one.
>
> good luck,
> prg
>
> PS for anyone wondering how to tell wrt54G versions.
> -- wrt54G:
> http://wiki.openwrt.org/OpenWrtDocs/...6cc5845eb29751
> -- wrt54GS:
> http://wiki.openwrt.org/OpenWrtDocs/...9a4bb3b0fc9a48
>

"prg" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>I've not even bothered to look at what's available on the v5 routers
>beyond the web interface settings. Don't even know if there _are_ any
>other options/configs.
>
>I did manage to find a v2 router at Walmart and look for pre v5 routers
>whenever I'm in one. Walmart is not a hotbed of Linux users. For
>customers, I've already decided to go with the wrt54GL when I need one.
>
>good luck,
>prg
>
>PS for anyone wondering how to tell wrt54G versions.
>-- wrt54G:
>http://wiki.openwrt.org/OpenWrtDocs/...6cc5845eb29751
>-- wrt54GS:
>http://wiki.openwrt.org/OpenWrtDocs/...9a4bb3b0fc9a48

Thank you for posting this. I own one WRT54G and was looking to buy a
couple more as the prices have been dropping at my local Staples
store. I've printed out the chart(s) and I'm going in to see exactly
WHATS on sale!

--
------------------------------------------------
http://www3.sympatico.ca/dmitton
SPAM Reduction: Remove "x." from my domain.
------------------------------------------------

On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 11:04:31 -0500, Ian wrote:

> Hi,
> I just made a switch from my old linksys nonwireless DSL/cable router to the
> WRT54G. I have a linux box set as the DMZ host. I have developed a problem:
> I run X applications remotely and now it looks like if any X window has no
> activity for about 10 minutes, the connection to it is dropped (the NAT port
> mapping expires?). I tried a Netgear router with the same problem.
>
> My question is: is this normal behaviour for newer routers?
> If so, will upgrading the firmware of the WRT54G allow me to change it?
> Can the firmware of the WRT54G Version 5 be upgraded with 3rd party firmware?
>
> Alternatively, can I use the old Linksys router to do the NAT and DHCP and
> use the new WRT54G to do wireless only?
>
You can avoid this problem by running X over ssh. I know this may
introduce a layer you aren't using, but that's how the cookie crumbles.

The other setting you need is in /etc/ssh/sshd_config (in slackware,
anyway):

X11Forwarding yes
ClientAliveInterval 90

Then to start a session like this:

ssh -X -o ForwardX11Trusted=yes somebody@somehost

--
Douglas Mayne

Ian wrote:
> Thanks for the help. I have a friend who has a v4 and wouldn't mind swapping
> with me. I have a couple more questions pertaining to your response, see below:
>
> prg wrote:
> >
> >> My question is: is this normal behaviour for newer routers?
> >
> > Don't know, but with less memory ...
> >
> > Also having wireless clients could affect it. They use more memory and
> > processing resources than ethernet clients.
>
> OK, but the connection is lost EXACTLY in 10 minutes, traffic or not, wireless
> or not. So it must be a new "feature" they've introduced. I'm frustrated because
> I can't find ANY information on this magic 10 min period. Linksys themselves say
> they know nothing about it. Or it might just be a coincidence.

"[C]onnection is lost EXACTLY in 10 minutes" sounds like a timer going
off, not memory cramp or overheating or router "misconfiguration".

> > OTOH, there may be some "magic" config combo that will allow the router
> > to work as you want. Have you tried simply forwarding selected ports
> > to the dmz box rather than using the router's dmz (all ports)
> > forwarding feature?
>
> I'm playing with various settings on the router, so far no difference. What I'm
> actually doing is I'm running an X server at work so I can run X applications on
> my home computer, which is behind the router. ...

OK, the apps are loaded and running on your home computer and you are
at work where the apps are displayed via the work computer's X server.
Correct?

> ... So, the computer running the X
> application doesn't even need to be a DMZ host, or have any ports forwarded,
> because it is a client and initiates the connection by talking to port 6000 on
> the server. ...

How does your home computer _initiate_ the connection to your work
computer's X server? How are the apps started? How do you connect
your work computer's X server to your home computer?

> ... So this is an `outgoing' port mapping (is this the right terminology?)
>
> Thanks again for your help!
>
> Ian

If it is a timer going off, then the router(s) should not be involved
as a problem source. It sounds to me like the computer _running_ the
(remote) apps (as opposed to the the computer displaying) is timing out
in some sense. If you know the timing of the lost connection, you
should be able to capture the packets on the wire (much easier than
wireless) and see what is being passed when the connection is lost.
May provide clues.

Just how is the computer running the remote X apps set up to allow
incoming connection requests? Are you remoting the X display directly
or using ssh to forward?

What I can't quite figure out here is just how it is you can _start_ a
remote X session, _then_ have it time out right at ten minutes. I
mean, you can set things up that way to disallow limitless access, but
you would have to go out of your way to do so. Is there anything on
the office network that might timeout or bump a connection at ten
minutes?

Anyway, I would concentrate on the end where the remote apps are
running. The _diplay_ that you are using is providing the keyboard,
mouse and monitor. The other end running the apps you can't really
"see" so it's difficult to tell what/why/if it is timing out. Sounds
suspiciously like an _inactivity_ timeout or some kind.

But that doesn't really make sense. Why would a screensaver or even a
OS or BIOS inactivity timer trigger?


Sorry, interrupted by a family member running XP Infected. Must run.
I'll check back later.
prg


> > I've not even bothered to look at what's available on the v5 routers
> > beyond the web interface settings. Don't even know if there _are_ any
> > other options/configs.
> >
> > I did manage to find a v2 router at Walmart and look for pre v5 routers
> > whenever I'm in one. Walmart is not a hotbed of Linux users. For
> > customers, I've already decided to go with the wrt54GL when I need one.
> >
> > good luck,
> > prg
> >
> > PS for anyone wondering how to tell wrt54G versions.
> > -- wrt54G:
> > http://wiki.openwrt.org/OpenWrtDocs/...6cc5845eb29751
> > -- wrt54GS:
> > http://wiki.openwrt.org/OpenWrtDocs/...9a4bb3b0fc9a48
> >