Wlan over 5 km radius

Hello,

What equipment do I need to catch a wlan signal over a 5km radius. I'm
looking for the cheapest possible equipment. The bandwidth does not have to
go over 500kbit/sec.

J.

I don't believe that that is possible! I guess if enough AP's and
antennas were installed it could be configured, but it certaintly
wouldn't be cheap! What 5k is 2 or so miles! My signal doesn't even
cross the street, and I am in a single family home!

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 13:53:25 +0200, "John Jacob" <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>Hello,
>
>What equipment do I need to catch a wlan signal over a 5km radius. I'm
>looking for the cheapest possible equipment. The bandwidth does not have to
>go over 500kbit/sec.
>
>J.
>

-- Have you checked your Smoke Detector...LATELY?

"John Jacob" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:bjn3bl$ik2$05$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hello,
>
> What equipment do I need to catch a wlan signal over a 5km radius. I'm
> looking for the cheapest possible equipment. The bandwidth does not have
to
> go over 500kbit/sec.
>
> J.
>

It can be done with 802.11b. The guys at O'Reilly did it. Peruse this:

http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/wire.../longshot.html

--Greg

"f/fgeorge" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 13:53:25 +0200, "John Jacob" <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote:
>
> >What equipment do I need to catch a wlan signal over a 5km radius. I'm
> >looking for the cheapest possible equipment. The bandwidth does not have
to
> >go over 500kbit/sec.
> >
> I don't believe that that is possible! I guess if enough AP's and
> antennas were installed it could be configured, but it certaintly
> wouldn't be cheap! What 5k is 2 or so miles! My signal doesn't even
> cross the street, and I am in a single family home!
>
You can do this with a dish in a straight line. A radius is a bit more
difficult. A high powered omni would do this but a 5K radius is commercial
so you'll get into trouble with the FCC without approval I imagine. I doubt
they'd approve you to use 2.4GHz since it's allocated for small home based
devices.


-KENT

Greg Kirkham wrote:

> "John Jacob" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:bjn3bl$ik2$05$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
>>Hello,
>>
>>What equipment do I need to catch a wlan signal over a 5km radius. I'm
>>looking for the cheapest possible equipment. The bandwidth does not have

> It can be done with 802.11b. The guys at O'Reilly did it. Peruse this:

Does that mean an omnidirectional AP over a 5km radius?

Dana

"Dana H. Myers" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) s.com...
> Greg Kirkham wrote:
>
> > "John Jacob" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:bjn3bl$ik2$05$(E-Mail Removed)...
> >
> >>Hello,
> >>
> >>What equipment do I need to catch a wlan signal over a 5km radius. I'm
> >>looking for the cheapest possible equipment. The bandwidth does not have
>
> > It can be done with 802.11b. The guys at O'Reilly did it. Peruse this:
>
> Does that mean an omnidirectional AP over a 5km radius?
>
> Dana
>

I believe they used yagis or a combination there of.

--Greg

"Greg Kirkham" <no-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:qUM7b.820$(E-Mail Removed).. .
>
> "John Jacob" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:bjn3bl$ik2$05$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > Hello,
> >
> > What equipment do I need to catch a wlan signal over a 5km radius. I'm
> > looking for the cheapest possible equipment. The bandwidth does not have
> to
> > go over 500kbit/sec.
> >
> > J.
> >
>
> It can be done with 802.11b. The guys at O'Reilly did it. Peruse this:
>
> http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/wire.../longshot.html
>
Did they? They only did a 5Km point to point (and simulated 20Km) using
dishes and I've been waiting for the following weeks article since
05/03/2001.


-KENT

In article <bjn3bl$ik2$05$(E-Mail Removed)>, (E-Mail Removed)
says...
> Hello,
>
> What equipment do I need to catch a wlan signal over a 5km radius. I'm
> looking for the cheapest possible equipment. The bandwidth does not have to
> go over 500kbit/sec.

Under ideal conditions, with the right antennas, you could probably do
this, but its a bit of a square peg solution.

Look here: http://www.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/roofnet/
and: http://www.bawug.org
or: http://www.seattlewireless.net/

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003, Kent Smith wrote:
> "Greg Kirkham" <no-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:qUM7b.820$(E-Mail Removed).. .
> >
> > "John Jacob" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:bjn3bl$ik2$05$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > What equipment do I need to catch a wlan signal over a 5km radius. I'm
> > > looking for the cheapest possible equipment. The bandwidth does not have
> > to
> > > go over 500kbit/sec.
> > >
> > > J.
> > >
> >
> > It can be done with 802.11b. The guys at O'Reilly did it. Peruse this:
> >
> > http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/wire.../longshot.html
> >
> Did they? They only did a 5Km point to point (and simulated 20Km) using
> dishes and I've been waiting for the following weeks article since
> 05/03/2001.

5km p-t-p is quite different from a 5km RADIUS.... Dish antennas don't
transmit in a circular radiation pattern.

The sensitivity of many devices is so that 1/2/pi (0.16) microvolts (-68dB) of
sensitivity is a "strong" signal and less than that may be unreliable. 1 Watt
at 1km distance will produce 0.16 microvolts in field strength. Wireless lan
equipment seems to be a little more sensitive (-78dB to -90dB, the latter for
the slowest speed). Most devices only transmit somewhere from 30 to 100
milliwatts of power without an external amplifier.

In order to reach out to 5km in a circle, one still needs +15dB of gain for a 1
watt transmitter (the other 10 dB being the difference between -68 and -78).
1 Watt is the maximum raw power for 802.11 equipment (in the U.S. - other
countries may be less), but the problem is that for antennas with over 6dB of
gain, the power must be backed down. Also, the "base" system employing the
high gain antenna is only one side. The other side, presumedly NOT a fixed
station (but portable/mobile; either way, a "stock" system), also needs to have
its gain somehow dealt with, and generally, a pre-amplifier at the base side
will help, but it may not be enough. This is do-able if both sides are FIXED
stations, with gain antennas and amplifiers.

| 5km p-t-p is quite different from a 5km RADIUS.... Dish antennas don't
| transmit in a circular radiation pattern.
|
| The sensitivity of many devices is so that 1/2/pi (0.16) microvolts
(-68dB) of
| sensitivity is a "strong" signal and less than that may be unreliable. 1
Watt
| at 1km distance will produce 0.16 microvolts in field strength. Wireless
lan
| equipment seems to be a little more sensitive (-78dB to -90dB, the latter
for
| the slowest speed). Most devices only transmit somewhere from 30 to 100
| milliwatts of power without an external amplifier.
|
| In order to reach out to 5km in a circle, one still needs +15dB of gain
for a 1
| watt transmitter (the other 10 dB being the difference between -68
and -78).
| 1 Watt is the maximum raw power for 802.11 equipment (in the U.S. - other
| countries may be less), but the problem is that for antennas with over 6dB
of
| gain, the power must be backed down. Also, the "base" system employing
the
| high gain antenna is only one side. The other side, presumedly NOT a
fixed
| station (but portable/mobile; either way, a "stock" system), also needs to
have
| its gain somehow dealt with, and generally, a pre-amplifier at the base
side
| will help, but it may not be enough. This is do-able if both sides are
FIXED
| stations, with gain antennas and amplifiers.

Where can I find comparative technical specification on the various
equipment. None of what literature I can find has much useful information.
Also does anyone make separate T/R data interface packages? I'm interested
in T/R up applications and would prefer to have the non-rf portions of the
package where they can be accessed more readily than climbing a pole.

Regards