Wireless Versus Ethernet

I'm an entry level IT technician at my new job. It's a small office of
14 computers, 13 of which are networked together.

My boss wants to get wireless ethernet as insurance in case of a
lightning strike/hurricane/undetermined vague reasons.

This would mean removing the ethernet altogether to protect against
lightning strikes.

I think he should just get an apcc lightning thing with ethernet jacks.

Ethernet is reliable as a network correct? Do we really need a wireless
network for a small office?
To me it seems like my boss is just listening to people trying to sell
the latest and greatest thing.

What do you think?

On 18 Jul 2006 14:55:57 -0700, in alt.internet.wireless , "Johhny
Blogger" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>I'm an entry level IT technician at my new job. It's a small office of
>14 computers, 13 of which are networked together.
>
>My boss wants to get wireless ethernet as insurance in case of a
>lightning strike/hurricane/undetermined vague reasons.

Euh, he's been reading too many marketing magazines.

>This would mean removing the ethernet altogether to protect against
>lightning strikes.

How will this help? Each Pc is still connected to all the rest by
mains cabling, and worse still, that cabling is connected to other
buildings and pylons and so on and so forth.

>I think he should just get an apcc lightning thing with ethernet jacks.

Yes. Proper surge protection is what he needs.

>Ethernet is reliable as a network correct? Do we really need a wireless
>network for a small office?

Stick with ethernet.

>To me it seems like my boss is just listening to people trying to sell
>the latest and greatest thing.

I agree.
>
>What do you think?
--
Mark McIntyre

On 18 Jul 2006 14:55:57 -0700, "Johhny Blogger"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>I'm an entry level IT technician at my new job. It's a small office of
>14 computers, 13 of which are networked together.
>
>My boss wants to get wireless ethernet as insurance in case of a
>lightning strike/hurricane/undetermined vague reasons.
>
>This would mean removing the ethernet altogether to protect against
>lightning strikes.

You can have both connected at the same time. See:
| http://groups.google.com/group/alt.i...99e46e7d104727
The ethernet route is used because the "cost" of the connection is
less than the "cost" of the wireless. If the ethernet pukes, then
wireless just takes over. At worst, all the user need to is unplug
the ethernet connector.

>I think he should just get an apcc lightning thing with ethernet jacks.

Sigh. Ethernet is protected to about 1500 volts common mode. That
should take care of any indirect lightning hits. It's not grounded so
you don't need to worry about ground loops (unless you use shielded
CAT5). Nothing will protect against a direct hit.

>Ethernet is reliable as a network correct?

It's far more reliable than wireless. It's also much less of a
security risk if the wireless network is compromised by an evil
wireless hacker (like me).

>Do we really need a wireless
>network for a small office?

No. At best it's redundant. At worst, it's a security risk,
configuration problem, and is much slower than 100baseT.

>To me it seems like my boss is just listening to people trying to sell
>the latest and greatest thing.

How's your disaster recovery backup system? How quickly can you
recover from your choice of disaster? Have you actually tested your
disaster recovery plan? Does the building have a lightning rod on the
roof? Are all the inside pipes and light fixtures properly grounded?
Are the phones protected against lightning or will the boss also
suggest cordless phones?
http://www.lightning.org

>What do you think?

If lightning is really an issue, methinks prevention is a more
appropriate prophylactic. Consulting a minister or rabbi for the
necessary prayers or incantation to prevent or redirect the lightning
might be more effective.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558 (E-Mail Removed)
# http://802.11junk.com (E-Mail Removed)
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

Johhny Blogger wrote:

> I'm an entry level IT technician at my new job. It's a small office of
> 14 computers, 13 of which are networked together.
>
> My boss wants to get wireless ethernet as insurance in case of a
> lightning strike/hurricane/undetermined vague reasons.

It's not going to help with a hurricane and likely won't survive a lightning
strike.

> This would mean removing the ethernet altogether to protect against
> lightning strikes.
>
> I think he should just get an apcc lightning thing with ethernet jacks.

I think he should get a chill pill and find something important to worry
about.

> Ethernet is reliable as a network correct?

Yes.

> Do we really need a wireless network for a small office?

Only if someone needs to move around the office with a connected computer
for some reason.

> To me it seems like my boss is just listening to people trying to sell
> the latest and greatest thing.

Yep.

> What do you think?

I think that if this is something the boss has his heart set on then your
best bet is to present your arguments in written form, accept his decision,
no matter how loony it is, put all the Ethernet bits in a closet somewhere,
and when it blows up in his face and ewerybody ees blamink _you_ pull out
your copy of your memo and remind him that you told him so and tell him how
long it will take for you to put the Ethernet back.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

In article <(E-Mail Removed) .com>,
Johhny Blogger <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>I'm an entry level IT technician at my new job. It's a small office of
>14 computers, 13 of which are networked together.
>
>My boss wants to get wireless ethernet as insurance in case of a
>lightning strike/hurricane/undetermined vague reasons.
>
>This would mean removing the ethernet altogether to protect against
>lightning strikes.
>
>I think he should just get an apcc lightning thing with ethernet jacks.
>
>Ethernet is reliable as a network correct? Do we really need a wireless
>network for a small office?
>To me it seems like my boss is just listening to people trying to sell
>the latest and greatest thing.
>
>What do you think?
>



I agree with others that will tel you this is misguided and add that
IMO 14 computers will get really crappy response on a basic wireless
network.

As for protection against vague accidents, you need to work with your
boss to come up with risk-cost assessment, starting with identifying
critical business activities and planning for steps to be taken to
keep the company running if, for instance, Martians instantly make all
your PCs and network disappear.

Don't fixate on specific equipment failures. Reality is *much* more
creative than you or your boss is.

--
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m

Don't blame me. I voted for Gore. A Proud signature since 2001

Do you think that silly little APCC device will stop or absorb what
three miles of sky could not stop? That is the myth they promote. It
is routine to sufferent direct lightning strikes and not suffer damage.
But that means you first understand the pinciples as originally
demonstrated by Franklin in 1752.

Lightning seeks earth ground. Either it is earthed before it enters
the building, or it finds destructive paths through electronics. Your
task is to earth lightning before it can overwhelm protection already
inside appliances. That 1500 volts is part of protectcion already
inside networked devices. You don't stop, block, or absorb such
surges. You earth them so that that 1500 volt galvanic isolation is
not overwhelmed.

One RJ45 type protector is:
http://www.tripplite.com/products/pr...?productID=151
Notice the protector does not sit between a surge and electronics.
Notice the green ground wire. If that ground wire makes a 'less than
10 foot' connection to the building 'single point earth ground', then
the transient is earthed before it can find electronics. The protector
is not the same thing as protection. A protector is simply a
connection to protection. Protection is the single point earthing
electrode. Buildings without earthing that meets and exceeds post 1990
NEC requirements typically have no effective protection.

What happens when lightning strikes building one? One possible path
to earth is down the interconnected ethernet wire, through electronics
in that other building, and then out to earth. Protection methods are
so well proven as to be standard everywhere in town. All buildings
connect to the telco's multimillion computer that must never be
damaged. How do they also protect that computer? Do they shutdown
during thunderstorms? Of course not. They also earth every incoming
wire via a protector and long before that wire connects to the
computer. You simply need do same that the telco has been doing for
almost 100 years.

We have been discussing secondary protection. Primary protection
must also be inspected:
http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html
Each protection layer is defined by the most critical and always
essential part of any protection system: earth ground. How effective
is that protector? Well, how effective is the earth ground it connects
to?

Johhny Blogger wrote:
> I'm an entry level IT technician at my new job. It's a small office of
> 14 computers, 13 of which are networked together.
>
> My boss wants to get wireless ethernet as insurance in case of a
> lightning strike/hurricane/undetermined vague reasons.
>
> This would mean removing the ethernet altogether to protect against
> lightning strikes.
>
> I think he should just get an apcc lightning thing with ethernet jacks.
>
> Ethernet is reliable as a network correct? Do we really need a wireless
> network for a small office?
> To me it seems like my boss is just listening to people trying to sell
> the latest and greatest thing.
>
> What do you think?

"Jeff Liebermann" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On 18 Jul 2006 14:55:57 -0700, "Johhny Blogger"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> >I'm an entry level IT technician at my new job. It's a small office of
> >14 computers, 13 of which are networked together.
> >
> >My boss wants to get wireless ethernet as insurance in case of a
> >lightning strike/hurricane/undetermined vague reasons.
> >
> >This would mean removing the ethernet altogether to protect against
> >lightning strikes.
>
> You can have both connected at the same time. See:
> |
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.i...99e46e7d104727
> The ethernet route is used because the "cost" of the connection is
> less than the "cost" of the wireless. If the ethernet pukes, then
> wireless just takes over. At worst, all the user need to is unplug
> the ethernet connector.
>
> >I think he should just get an apcc lightning thing with ethernet jacks.
>
> Sigh. Ethernet is protected to about 1500 volts common mode. That
> should take care of any indirect lightning hits. It's not grounded so
> you don't need to worry about ground loops (unless you use shielded
> CAT5). Nothing will protect against a direct hit.
>
> >Ethernet is reliable as a network correct?
>
> It's far more reliable than wireless. It's also much less of a
> security risk if the wireless network is compromised by an evil
> wireless hacker (like me).
>
> >Do we really need a wireless
> >network for a small office?
>
> No. At best it's redundant. At worst, it's a security risk,
> configuration problem, and is much slower than 100baseT.

but you would probably still need Ethernet to tie everything together, like
your server(s), WAN connection and so on. So all you are protecting is the
PCs. However - if you get hit i suggest you probably prefer to fry a PC
rather than your main file server.

Maybe you need to give everyone a laptop with wireless - that way during a
storm you dont need the power feed either as long as it doesnt last too
long....
>
> >To me it seems like my boss is just listening to people trying to sell
> >the latest and greatest thing.
>
> How's your disaster recovery backup system? How quickly can you
> recover from your choice of disaster? Have you actually tested your
> disaster recovery plan? Does the building have a lightning rod on the
> roof? Are all the inside pipes and light fixtures properly grounded?
> Are the phones protected against lightning or will the boss also
> suggest cordless phones?
> http://www.lightning.org

a colleague actually got a "hit" from a phone on a long line extension from
another building during a lightning storm 20 years ago - all he got was a
kick as his muscles spasmed.

The phones all had surge protectors which might be why he was still
walking.....
>
> >What do you think?
>
> If lightning is really an issue, methinks prevention is a more
> appropriate prophylactic. Consulting a minister or rabbi for the
> necessary prayers or incantation to prevent or redirect the lightning
> might be more effective.

or just move the firm to somewhere you dont get lightning very often?
>
> --
> # Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
> # 831-336-2558 (E-Mail Removed)
> # http://802.11junk.com (E-Mail Removed)
> # http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS
--
Regards

(E-Mail Removed) - replace xyz with ntl

> "Jeff Liebermann" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> >
> > If lightning is really an issue, methinks prevention is a more
> > appropriate prophylactic. Consulting a minister or rabbi for the
> > necessary prayers or incantation to prevent or redirect the lightning
> > might be more effective.
>

A friend and long-time colleague of mine is the Dean of Engineering at
Santa Clara University (a Jesuit institution here in Silly-con Valley).
We were discussing new, innovative class offerings in networking; I
suggested a joint seminar between the Engineering and Theology
departments, titled "The Use of Prayer as a Network Management tool." It
got a good chuckle.

--
Rich Seifert Networks and Communications Consulting
21885 Bear Creek Way
(408) 395-5700 Los Gatos, CA 95033
(408) 228-0803 FAX

Send replies to: usenet at richseifert dot com

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On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 21:31:27 GMT, "stephen"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>but you would probably still need Ethernet to tie everything together, like
>your server(s), WAN connection and so on.

Not really. You could install wireless cards in your servers. There
are also cable and DSL modems that have built in wireless. It could
be done all wireless if you really want that.

>So all you are protecting is the
>PCs. However - if you get hit i suggest you probably prefer to fry a PC
>rather than your main file server.

If I get hit, I would go up in a puff of smog, not the file server.
However, if your goal is to electrically isolate each machine from
anything that might get hit by lightning, you could run fiber between
the office ethernet switch and the file server, which would offer some
protection.

>Maybe you need to give everyone a laptop with wireless - that way during a
>storm you dont need the power feed either as long as it doesnt last too
>long....

Good idea. If you're giving out laptops, I could use a new one. Just
one problem. How do I charge the battery without risking getting hit
by lightning through the power lines? Solar powered chargers?

>a colleague actually got a "hit" from a phone on a long line extension from
>another building during a lightning storm 20 years ago - all he got was a
>kick as his muscles spasmed.

Perhaps some protective clothing might be useful. A medieval all
metal armour suit of plate or chain mail might work but seems a bit
clumsy. Perhaps one of those foil covered fire protection suits:
http://www.newtex.com/f-entrysuits.html
Maybe stun gun protective clothing might dissipate the charge:
http://www.newlaunches.com/archives/...e_clothing.php
Even a tin foil hat would work if properly grounded to a conductive
shoe heel plate.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558 (E-Mail Removed)
# http://802.11junk.com (E-Mail Removed)
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 15:02:16 -0700, Rich Seifert
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>> "Jeff Liebermann" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> >
>> > If lightning is really an issue, methinks prevention is a more
>> > appropriate prophylactic. Consulting a minister or rabbi for the
>> > necessary prayers or incantation to prevent or redirect the lightning
>> > might be more effective.

>A friend and long-time colleague of mine is the Dean of Engineering at
>Santa Clara University (a Jesuit institution here in Silly-con Valley).
>We were discussing new, innovative class offerings in networking; I
>suggested a joint seminar between the Engineering and Theology
>departments, titled "The Use of Prayer as a Network Management tool." It
>got a good chuckle.

Well, my non-denominational brand of network troubleshooting largely
ignores the benefits of the established religions and is based on a
much older system. When difficulties arise, I prepare burnt offerings
of an old 286 or 386 motherboard on the hibachi. The smoke is known
to please the computer gods. Burnt offerings have worked for
thousands of years and continue to be a major tool my networking
toolbox. Human sacrific is only needed if my invoice isn't paid
promptly.

Similarly, it is often necessary to exorcize the network to evict evil
spirits and daemons, especially when the system is acting in an
erratic and devious manner. Verbal oaths and threats of dismemberment
to the component level almost always results in a more cooperative
network. Never mind talking to the network. Yell at it.

Remedies for specific problems such as embalming to reduce the damage
caused by packet fragmentation are useful. Scribbling prayers and
incantations on pieces of paper works as well when stuffed into unused
Ethernet ports as it does in the Wailing Wall.

It appears that you have the necessary material for a class or perhaps
another book. However, I would generalize the topic as "Alternative
Methods of Network Management and Troubleshooting".

Then again, some networks are hopeless:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/dri...es/mess01.html
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Beirut-Telco/

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558 (E-Mail Removed)
# http://802.11junk.com (E-Mail Removed)
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS