Wireless router dropping the Internet DSL connection

I have a Bell South Alcatel DSL modem connected to a D-Link wireless
router. The internet connection goes down every couple of hours and
comes back after a DSL modem reset. The wireless LAN does not go down
at all.

The modem did not have this problem before the wireless LAN was
installed, so I thought it was the wireless router. I started with a
Dell Truemobile 1184 wireless router, and switched it with another one
that I knew was working...same problem.

So then I thought it was probably the DSL modem - Bell South sent a
new one (an Alcatel to replace the Westell)...same problem. I made
sure the firmwares were updated on both devices. I have the PPPoE set
correctly on the router and Bridged Ethernet on the DSL modem.

So after that I figured it was the Dell TrueMobile 1184 router and
went out and got a D-Link. Same problem.

So I started some serious research (by the way, I've even replaced the
cables between the two). I found someone that had similar problems
because the units were too close to each other (long shot, but might
as well try). I separated them by several feet and still having the
same problem.

Does anyone have any ideas? I've stumped 3rd level support from
Dell and Bell South, as well as some worthy engineers I have contact
with.

Could there be an issue with too many users on? I only have about 7
or 8, but it seems to work better when they're not all there. That's
odd to me though, I've had 30 users on a dsl line before, just not
through a wireless router.

Thank you,
Austen Amacker
(E-Mail Removed)

"Austen" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) om
>
> The modem did not have this problem before the wireless LAN was
> installed, so I thought it was the wireless router. I started with a
> Dell Truemobile 1184 wireless router, and switched it with another one
> that I knew was working...same problem.
> ...
> Could there be an issue with too many users on? I only have about 7
> or 8, but it seems to work better when they're not all there. That's
> odd to me though, I've had 30 users on a dsl line before, just not
> through a wireless router.

I doubt the number of users is the issue.

Have you completely eliminated the possibility of another problem besides
the router? You indicate that the problem did not exist before the router,
but you didn't indicate how you know that. Was the router a recent
addition? How did you have the "7 or 8" users connected to the DSL modem
before? A wired router? Do computers connected to the wired ports of the
wireless router exhibit the same problem?

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/tknoFlyer
__________

This is a long shot. I had a similar problem. After observeing this
behaviour for a time I noticed that each time I lost the dsl
connection, the lights dimmed very slightly. I found the cause to be
that each time the washing machine switched on this would happen. The
slight drop in voltage was enough to cause the modem to lose the
connection. I plugged the modem into a UPS and now all seemes well.

rdb.

(E-Mail Removed) (r. d. bärtschiger.) wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed). com>...
> This is a long shot. I had a similar problem. After observeing this
> behaviour for a time I noticed that each time I lost the dsl
> connection, the lights dimmed very slightly. I found the cause to be
> that each time the washing machine switched on this would happen. The
> slight drop in voltage was enough to cause the modem to lose the
> connection. I plugged the modem into a UPS and now all seemes well.
>
> rdb.

I'll check on that. The only thing left is long shots. The building
doesn't have the best wiring, so that could be part of it. Thanks for
the suggestion.

Austen

"John T" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed) ews.com>...
> "Austen" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed) om
> >
> > The modem did not have this problem before the wireless LAN was
> > installed, so I thought it was the wireless router. I started with a
> > Dell Truemobile 1184 wireless router, and switched it with another one
> > that I knew was working...same problem.
> > ...
> > Could there be an issue with too many users on? I only have about 7
> > or 8, but it seems to work better when they're not all there. That's
> > odd to me though, I've had 30 users on a dsl line before, just not
> > through a wireless router.
>
> I doubt the number of users is the issue.
>
> Have you completely eliminated the possibility of another problem besides
> the router? You indicate that the problem did not exist before the router,
> but you didn't indicate how you know that. Was the router a recent
> addition? How did you have the "7 or 8" users connected to the DSL modem
> before? A wired router? Do computers connected to the wired ports of the
> wireless router exhibit the same problem?

The DSL was there for a while to one workstation before the wireless
router was put in, and there were no problems with it then. If we
take the wireless router out of the picture and put it back on the
workstation it seems to work.

All machines experience the drop, even if hard-wired to the router.
The wireless network never goes down, just the link between the router
and the modem.

Austen

(E-Mail Removed) (Austen) wrote in
news:(E-Mail Removed) om:

> "John T" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:<(E-Mail Removed) ews.com>...
>> "Austen" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:(E-Mail Removed) om
>> >
>> > The modem did not have this problem before the wireless LAN was
>> > installed, so I thought it was the wireless router. I started with
>> > a Dell Truemobile 1184 wireless router, and switched it with
>> > another one that I knew was working...same problem.
>> > ...
>> > Could there be an issue with too many users on? I only have about
>> > 7 or 8, but it seems to work better when they're not all there.
>> > That's odd to me though, I've had 30 users on a dsl line before,
>> > just not through a wireless router.
>>
>> I doubt the number of users is the issue.
>>
>> Have you completely eliminated the possibility of another problem
>> besides the router? You indicate that the problem did not exist
>> before the router, but you didn't indicate how you know that. Was
>> the router a recent addition? How did you have the "7 or 8" users
>> connected to the DSL modem before? A wired router? Do computers
>> connected to the wired ports of the wireless router exhibit the same
>> problem?
>
> The DSL was there for a while to one workstation before the wireless
> router was put in, and there were no problems with it then. If we
> take the wireless router out of the picture and put it back on the
> workstation it seems to work.
>
> All machines experience the drop, even if hard-wired to the router.
> The wireless network never goes down, just the link between the router
> and the modem.
>
> Austen
>

These may be dumb questions but here I go anyway:

1) When you say that you switched wireless routers for one that you knew
that was working, was the "known working" unit the same brand and model
or something totally different? i.e. Have you tried a wireless router of
a different model &/or brand? Can you borrow another wireless router to
try?

2) Have you checked the WAN settings on your wireless router to make sure
that there isn't something different or missing versus the direct
connection to the workstation?

3) Also, have you tried using a wired (no wireless) router? If so, does
it drop the connection too?

4) Is the IP address assigned to your DSL modem non-static? By that, I
am referring to the IP address for your DSL modem (WAN port of router)?
Sounds like it could also be a short DHCP lease problem. Did you use the
cloning capability of your router to emulate the MAC address of the
Ethernet card in your workstation on the WAN port of your router? If
not, perhaps you should do that and see what happens. ISPs sometimes
lock down the modem to certain MAC address(es) or only put entries in
their DHCP tables for known MAC addresses. If the MAC address of the
router's WAN port is not known/registered to the ISP/DSL modem then weird
stuff can happen. If you can not clone the MAC address, how about
calling your ISP and getting them to use the MAC address of the router
instead.

Not sure if any of this helps but it's worth a shot...

"Press Ctrl-Alt-Del Now" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<Xns93CA73EA1C9B63fingermssolutionreb@140.99. 99.130>...
> (E-Mail Removed) (Austen) wrote in
> news:(E-Mail Removed) om:
>
> > "John T" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:<(E-Mail Removed) ews.com>...
> >> "Austen" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> >> news:(E-Mail Removed) om
> >> >
> >> > The modem did not have this problem before the wireless LAN was
> >> > installed, so I thought it was the wireless router. I started with
> >> > a Dell Truemobile 1184 wireless router, and switched it with
> >> > another one that I knew was working...same problem.
> >> > ...
> >> > Could there be an issue with too many users on? I only have about
> >> > 7 or 8, but it seems to work better when they're not all there.
> >> > That's odd to me though, I've had 30 users on a dsl line before,
> >> > just not through a wireless router.
> >>
> >> I doubt the number of users is the issue.
> >>
> >> Have you completely eliminated the possibility of another problem
> >> besides the router? You indicate that the problem did not exist
> >> before the router, but you didn't indicate how you know that. Was
> >> the router a recent addition? How did you have the "7 or 8" users
> >> connected to the DSL modem before? A wired router? Do computers
> >> connected to the wired ports of the wireless router exhibit the same
> >> problem?
> >
> > The DSL was there for a while to one workstation before the wireless
> > router was put in, and there were no problems with it then. If we
> > take the wireless router out of the picture and put it back on the
> > workstation it seems to work.
> >
> > All machines experience the drop, even if hard-wired to the router.
> > The wireless network never goes down, just the link between the router
> > and the modem.
> >
> > Austen
> >
>
> These may be dumb questions but here I go anyway:
>
> 1) When you say that you switched wireless routers for one that you knew
> that was working, was the "known working" unit the same brand and model
> or something totally different? i.e. Have you tried a wireless router of
> a different model &/or brand? Can you borrow another wireless router to
> try?
>
> 2) Have you checked the WAN settings on your wireless router to make sure
> that there isn't something different or missing versus the direct
> connection to the workstation?
>
> 3) Also, have you tried using a wired (no wireless) router? If so, does
> it drop the connection too?
>
> 4) Is the IP address assigned to your DSL modem non-static? By that, I
> am referring to the IP address for your DSL modem (WAN port of router)?
> Sounds like it could also be a short DHCP lease problem. Did you use the
> cloning capability of your router to emulate the MAC address of the
> Ethernet card in your workstation on the WAN port of your router? If
> not, perhaps you should do that and see what happens. ISPs sometimes
> lock down the modem to certain MAC address(es) or only put entries in
> their DHCP tables for known MAC addresses. If the MAC address of the
> router's WAN port is not known/registered to the ISP/DSL modem then weird
> stuff can happen. If you can not clone the MAC address, how about
> calling your ISP and getting them to use the MAC address of the router
> instead.
>
> Not sure if any of this helps but it's worth a shot...

1) Yes, the known working unit was the same brand and model number.
It was a Dell TrueMobile 1184. After that didn't work I got a new
DLink and tried it.

2) All WAN settings are correct, I'm not worried about that

3) I haven't tried a wired router, I'm a little skeptical that it will
make a difference. The wireless network doesn't go down, just the
link between the router and the modem. I know, it's worth a shot at
this point though.

4) The IP address is dynamic. You make a good point about the short
lease, but a couple of hours? It's usually set to expire after about
a week. Plus it pulls the same IP usually when we reset it and get it
working again. That is a good point about checking if they wired the
connection to the MAC of the workstation, but I don't think that's how
they're doing it. I've been on support with several at the ISP and
that never came up, but I'll look into it.

Thanks for the ideas and the effort. If any more come up let me know.

FYI - out of the blue, it seems to be working a lot better now. It
hasn't gone down in a while, but we didn't change a thing. I still
want to research it because we didn't make any changes, so it could
happen again. I'm wondering if there was some wierd interference
coming from a floor above or below that stopped recently.

(E-Mail Removed) (Austen) wrote in
news:(E-Mail Removed) m:

> "Press Ctrl-Alt-Del Now" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
> message news:<Xns93CA73EA1C9B63fingermssolutionreb@140.99. 99.130>...
>> (E-Mail Removed) (Austen) wrote in
>> news:(E-Mail Removed) om:
>>
>> > "John T" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> > news:<(E-Mail Removed) ews.com>...
>> >> "Austen" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> >> news:(E-Mail Removed) om
>> >> >
>> >> > The modem did not have this problem before the wireless LAN was
>> >> > installed, so I thought it was the wireless router. I started
>> >> > with a Dell Truemobile 1184 wireless router, and switched it
>> >> > with another one that I knew was working...same problem.
>> >> > ...
>> >> > Could there be an issue with too many users on? I only have
>> >> > about 7 or 8, but it seems to work better when they're not all
>> >> > there. That's odd to me though, I've had 30 users on a dsl line
>> >> > before, just not through a wireless router.
>> >>
>> >> I doubt the number of users is the issue.
>> >>
>> >> Have you completely eliminated the possibility of another problem
>> >> besides the router? You indicate that the problem did not exist
>> >> before the router, but you didn't indicate how you know that. Was
>> >> the router a recent addition? How did you have the "7 or 8" users
>> >> connected to the DSL modem before? A wired router? Do computers
>> >> connected to the wired ports of the wireless router exhibit the
>> >> same problem?
>> >
>> > The DSL was there for a while to one workstation before the
>> > wireless router was put in, and there were no problems with it
>> > then. If we take the wireless router out of the picture and put it
>> > back on the workstation it seems to work.
>> >
>> > All machines experience the drop, even if hard-wired to the router.
>> > The wireless network never goes down, just the link between the
>> > router and the modem.
>> >
>> > Austen
>> >
>>
>> These may be dumb questions but here I go anyway:
>>
>> 1) When you say that you switched wireless routers for one that you
>> knew that was working, was the "known working" unit the same brand
>> and model or something totally different? i.e. Have you tried a
>> wireless router of a different model &/or brand? Can you borrow
>> another wireless router to try?
>>
>> 2) Have you checked the WAN settings on your wireless router to make
>> sure that there isn't something different or missing versus the
>> direct connection to the workstation?
>>
>> 3) Also, have you tried using a wired (no wireless) router? If so,
>> does it drop the connection too?
>>
>> 4) Is the IP address assigned to your DSL modem non-static? By that,
>> I am referring to the IP address for your DSL modem (WAN port of
>> router)? Sounds like it could also be a short DHCP lease problem.
>> Did you use the cloning capability of your router to emulate the MAC
>> address of the Ethernet card in your workstation on the WAN port of
>> your router? If not, perhaps you should do that and see what
>> happens. ISPs sometimes lock down the modem to certain MAC
>> address(es) or only put entries in their DHCP tables for known MAC
>> addresses. If the MAC address of the router's WAN port is not
>> known/registered to the ISP/DSL modem then weird stuff can happen.
>> If you can not clone the MAC address, how about calling your ISP and
>> getting them to use the MAC address of the router instead.
>>
>> Not sure if any of this helps but it's worth a shot...
>
> 1) Yes, the known working unit was the same brand and model number.
> It was a Dell TrueMobile 1184. After that didn't work I got a new
> DLink and tried it.
>
> 2) All WAN settings are correct, I'm not worried about that
>
> 3) I haven't tried a wired router, I'm a little skeptical that it will
> make a difference. The wireless network doesn't go down, just the
> link between the router and the modem. I know, it's worth a shot at
> this point though.
>
> 4) The IP address is dynamic. You make a good point about the short
> lease, but a couple of hours? It's usually set to expire after about
> a week. Plus it pulls the same IP usually when we reset it and get it
> working again. That is a good point about checking if they wired the
> connection to the MAC of the workstation, but I don't think that's how
> they're doing it. I've been on support with several at the ISP and
> that never came up, but I'll look into it.
>
> Thanks for the ideas and the effort. If any more come up let me know.
>
> FYI - out of the blue, it seems to be working a lot better now. It
> hasn't gone down in a while, but we didn't change a thing. I still
> want to research it because we didn't make any changes, so it could
> happen again. I'm wondering if there was some wierd interference
> coming from a floor above or below that stopped recently.
>

Well I nearly pulled out every last hair from my head trying to debug an
intermittent connection with my ADSL here. Turns out it was a problem on
the ISP side that they did not know about plus a line problem which was
never found in previous tech visits. Of course they never admitted that
until every last possible alternative had been exhausted and there was
nothing left to point their finger at but themselves. Frustrating as
heck trying to fix those types of problems, especially when your ISP says
there are no problems on their end so it must be something on your end.

One final note, I had to make a decision as to whether I kept my 2.4GHz
wireless equipment or my 2.4GHz DSS phone. Seeing how it was much
cheaper to replace the latter, I went out a got an Uniden 5.8GHz phone
system. The 2.4GHz phone used to trash my wireless LAN every time I used
it. If it was a short phone call, the wireless stuff seemed to recover
BUT if it was a longer phone call, it never recovered and I had to cycle
power to my router and bridge. I tried changing channels on my phone and
my wireless gear but no luck. Perhaps something similar is happening to
you too? Who knows, your problem may be the cumulation of several
things, that's why it is so hard to debug. And if one of those is your
ISP, you will probably never find it out as they'd likely never admit
it...