Wireless router in an apartment building

I live in an apartment building that has high speed internet jacks in
each apartment. The service is provided by the building management, who
incidentally refuses to offer any technical support. Weird. Anyway, so
it was working just fine. I plugged the CAT5 cable into the wall and
into my laptop and wahlah...instant Internet.

Then the other day I bought a wireless router and network card. I
followed the instructions, programmed the router by ethernetting it to
the laptop and running it's built in configuration menu. Then hooked it
to the network jack and the green light came on that it had found the
connection. But I keep getting a message that it can't find an Internet
connection.

I disconnected everything. Uninstalled the drivers and then actually
used System Restore to go back to an earlier date. And then just hooked
back up to the wall by cable directly as I was before. Still no go.
Says it can't renew the IP address for my computer and IE gives a DNS
lookup error screen. The DNS server showing up is 192.168.2.1 which is
the same as the IP address that I see for the Default Gateway. My
computer does have an IP address assigned which is 192.168.2.133. Bear
in mind the router I bought is completely out of the picture now. I'm
using only a 10/100 ethernet card, CAT5 directly to the wall as before.

So today I stop by the office and ask the apartment manager if there
are any problems on their end. She said there aren't but they have had
a lot of complaints about tenants' Internet connections being out. She
says that it is because some people have routers installed that are
stealing other people's IP addresses. They are going to go through
every apartment and disconnect any routers they find. Is this possible?
How could my router have permanently stolen mine or some other tenants
IP address that is assigned by the apartment's server, even after it
has been removed?

Does your apartment management give each apartment unit a unique IP
or is it handled by DHCP? I'd think it is the second one.

In the unlikely chance of assinging fixed IP to each unit, someone
stealing your IP is possible. Rather, unwittingly using your IP
because they don't know how to set up their router. Given that
almost anyone has a couple of PCs/laptops at home and want Internet
from all of them, and the availability of cheap routers, this is a
definite possiblity.

Usually the DNS is .10 machine (in your case, it would be 192.168.2.10)
and the Gateway is .254 (192.168.2.254). You may want to set these 2
values in your router/laptop and give another try.

Finally, apartment managers are usually not computer techs. So, we have
to take their words with a pinch of salt.

Hope this helps.
Senthil.

I think your apartment manager is confused or not using the proper terms.
Additionally, they seem to be ill equipped to truly handle everyone's needs.
Judging from your description it sounds as if they have too small of an IP
address pool (range). Each Ethernet device requests it's own IP address and
if successful gets a lease for that address. The address lease is
automatically renewed as long as the device is "online" when it's time for
renewal. I think you can imagine how this will play out if even a small
amount of people are trying to do what you did. You have an IP address for
your PC and now your router is trying to get one. Very shortly they will
run out of addresses. The only way to really fix this is to get a larger
pool and/or shorten the lease time so the unused addresses will more likely
become available again.

You may want to try and ask to have your PC's IP address record deleted from
the DHCP server in exchange for getting a new address for your router. Your
router will assign NAT addresses for each of your machines and will not
affect the apartment's lease pool beyond that one address. This is, of
course, with the idea that the apartment is handling it's own DHCP.

Incidentally, disconnecting everyone's routers isn't the way to fix this
problem. They will have the same problem on their hands when people start
getting new PCs or attaching other PCs. Ironically, if they just let
everyone use a router and restrict direct PC use the problem would mostly go
away. Of course, then they'd have to worry about bandwidth problems from
all the additional PCs online but that's another issue entirely.

Richard


<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...
>I live in an apartment building that has high speed internet jacks in
> each apartment. The service is provided by the building management, who
> incidentally refuses to offer any technical support. Weird. Anyway, so
> it was working just fine. I plugged the CAT5 cable into the wall and
> into my laptop and wahlah...instant Internet.
>
> Then the other day I bought a wireless router and network card. I
> followed the instructions, programmed the router by ethernetting it to
> the laptop and running it's built in configuration menu. Then hooked it
> to the network jack and the green light came on that it had found the
> connection. But I keep getting a message that it can't find an Internet
> connection.
>
> I disconnected everything. Uninstalled the drivers and then actually
> used System Restore to go back to an earlier date. And then just hooked
> back up to the wall by cable directly as I was before. Still no go.
> Says it can't renew the IP address for my computer and IE gives a DNS
> lookup error screen. The DNS server showing up is 192.168.2.1 which is
> the same as the IP address that I see for the Default Gateway. My
> computer does have an IP address assigned which is 192.168.2.133. Bear
> in mind the router I bought is completely out of the picture now. I'm
> using only a 10/100 ethernet card, CAT5 directly to the wall as before.
>
> So today I stop by the office and ask the apartment manager if there
> are any problems on their end. She said there aren't but they have had
> a lot of complaints about tenants' Internet connections being out. She
> says that it is because some people have routers installed that are
> stealing other people's IP addresses. They are going to go through
> every apartment and disconnect any routers they find. Is this possible?
> How could my router have permanently stolen mine or some other tenants
> IP address that is assigned by the apartment's server, even after it
> has been removed?
>
>



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I don't think this is a problem with the IP pool size.
An apt. complex is not going to buy a pool of IPs.
If that was the case, we'd have been out of IP addresses
long time ago. That is too expensive too for an apt.
complex.

In all probability, they have just one IP address on the
Internet. The problem with this apt. complex is probably,
they are not using a DHCP server to lease unroutable
IP addresses to each apartment. Instead, they seem to have
assigned fixed IPs to each apt. When people plug-in new
devices into their wall without knowing how to configure
them, IP addresses get mis-assigned (stolen).

The other possibility is, the apartment network really has
some problem that they are trying to solve by ignoring it
and the manager is throwing around some jargon to keep
innocent tenants at bay.

my 2 cents.

I agree that it is unlikely that an apartment complex would have a pool of
addresses from an ISP however it is possible. It is also possible that they
have a small pool of addresses on their own DHCP server.

Also, I don't follow what you are saying here. If they have assigned IP
addresses for each apartment then it would be through static IP or static
DHCP. If that is so how does another device get another "stolen" IP
address? That would imply either they have a DHCP server or that someone is
manually configuring the IP settings on the client. Given the OP's info the
latter isn't likely.

Richard


"C.G.Senthilkumar." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:cu0kjf$4f8$(E-Mail Removed)...
>I don't think this is a problem with the IP pool size.
> An apt. complex is not going to buy a pool of IPs.
> If that was the case, we'd have been out of IP addresses
> long time ago. That is too expensive too for an apt.
> complex.
>
> In all probability, they have just one IP address on the
> Internet. The problem with this apt. complex is probably,
> they are not using a DHCP server to lease unroutable
> IP addresses to each apartment. Instead, they seem to have
> assigned fixed IPs to each apt. When people plug-in new
> devices into their wall without knowing how to configure
> them, IP addresses get mis-assigned (stolen).
>
> The other possibility is, the apartment network really has
> some problem that they are trying to solve by ignoring it
> and the manager is throwing around some jargon to keep
> innocent tenants at bay.
>
> my 2 cents.
>



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> have a small pool of addresses on their own DHCP server.
Nothing resticts them to a small pool of IPs on their own DHCP servers.

If the apt, has assigned fixed IP to each apt., anyone could give their device
their neighbour's IP and plug it in to the wall. If the apt. mgt. used DHCP
servers, that would take care of the IP assignment without problems.

Hope that helps.
Senthil.

"C.G.Senthilkumar." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:cu18f4$jp4$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> have a small pool of addresses on their own DHCP server.
> Nothing resticts them to a small pool of IPs on their own DHCP servers.
>


I don't think you understand. I never said there was any restriction to a
small pool of IPs. I explained that the apartment manager (or his tech
staff) might not have thought ahead to how large the pool should be. This
is one possible reason for the problem. You really should read my posts
more carefully.

> If the apt, has assigned fixed IP to each apt., anyone could give their
> device
> their neighbour's IP and plug it in to the wall. If the apt. mgt. used
> DHCP
> servers, that would take care of the IP assignment without problems.

This makes no sense since the OP made no mention of having to enter static
IP information to get access from the get-go. Further, your assertion that
if the management used a DHCP server that there would be no assignment
problems is incorrect particularly if the pool was too small to begin with.

Richard

"Richard Forester" <richard_forester(nospam)@msn.com> wrote in message
news:42042be3$1_3@127.0.0.1...
>
> "C.G.Senthilkumar." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:cu18f4$jp4$(E-Mail Removed)...
> >> have a small pool of addresses on their own DHCP server.
> > Nothing resticts them to a small pool of IPs on their own DHCP servers.
> >
>
>
> I don't think you understand. I never said there was any restriction to a
> small pool of IPs. I explained that the apartment manager (or his tech
> staff) might not have thought ahead to how large the pool should be. This
> is one possible reason for the problem. You really should read my posts
> more carefully.
>
> > If the apt, has assigned fixed IP to each apt., anyone could give their
> > device
> > their neighbour's IP and plug it in to the wall. If the apt. mgt. used
> > DHCP
> > servers, that would take care of the IP assignment without problems.
>
> This makes no sense since the OP made no mention of having to enter static
> IP information to get access from the get-go. Further, your assertion
that
> if the management used a DHCP server that there would be no assignment
> problems is incorrect particularly if the pool was too small to begin
with.
>
> Richard
>
>

If when setting up the router and they have 150 apartments and they set the
router to allocate 150 IPs then they could have a problem. How many people
have more than one computer using a hub instead of a router. Then each PC
would request and get an IP until the allocated pool is used up. The
apartment complex probably has an internet connection attached to a router
and set the rouetr to match the number of apartments.

Hubs are much cheaper than routers and they allow users to connect many
computers getting thier IP from the apartment complex router.

I really appreciate everyone's input on this. I will add this much....

1. When I first moved in and hooked up to the one jack that exists in
my apartment and turned on my PC (directly cabled to the wall - no
wireless / no router of my own) everything worked fine and yes I did
have DHCP enabled on my computer. Never had to enter a static IP.

2. As I mentioned before, I did take my own wireless router out of the
equation and go back to this set up and am still having problems. But
I'm noticing that almost every time I turn on my PC it has the same IP
address, and even if I release and renew through ipconfig I still get
the same one and no errors. But if I go through the GUI and click
"Repair" in the TCP/IP info dialog box, I immediately get a box saying
that "The following operation failed: renewing the IP address." The
dialog box that normally shows the IP address switches to say "invalid
IP address" for about 3 seconds, and then switches back to show an IP
address again which is usually 192.168.2.133.

3. I completely formatted and reinstalled Win XP yesterday just for the
hell of it to rule out the possiblity that I had screwed something up
beyond repair. Nothing changed. Same problem.

4. The default gateway (and DNS server) is always 192.168.2.1. Usually
I can't ping it. But every now and then I can and I get a ping response
quickly. But then the next time I turn on the PC I won't be able to.

Does any of this mean anything?

I guess the main thing I'm wondering right now is, if the problem is
that someone else is stealing my IP address, then why do I appear to
HAVE an IP address? Granted Windows reports an error when trying to
renew it, but it is there all the same. And so is the gateway.