Wireless Network setup (up to 10x pcs)

I'm in the process of setting up 10x pcs to work in an office. The client
wants to use his private phone line to connect an ADSL wireless modem\router
along with wireless PCI cards installed in each of the pcs.

My question is, would he need just 1x ADSL filter if the phone line is an
independent line and secondly, is this the best option to take for a simple
wireless setup.

My client also wants to hook up 3x printers to use on the network, am I
right in saying if these are hardwired to 3x different pcs, can they be
shared with the other pcs when the network is set up.

TIA

John

In article <ZHEed.9681$(E-Mail Removed)>,
John \"O\" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
:I'm in the process of setting up 10x pcs to work in an office. The client
:wants to use his private phone line to connect an ADSL wireless modem\router
:along with wireless PCI cards installed in each of the pcs.

:My question is, would he need just 1x ADSL filter if the phone line is an
:independent line

He will need an ADSL filter for all extensions to the line that are
-not- plugged into the ADSL router.

:and secondly, is this the best option to take for a simple
:wireless setup.

Best?? It should function, but "best" is an entirely subjective term.

You aren't telling us anything about internal obstructions in the
office, or about 2.4 GHz wireless phones, or about the presence
of microwave ovens, or about the size of the office, or about the
amount of metal shelving or books (or other paper) in the office.


:My client also wants to hook up 3x printers to use on the network, am I
:right in saying if these are hardwired to 3x different pcs, can they be
:shared with the other pcs when the network is set up.

Not necessarily. Depends on the version of MS Windows, depends on
the printer make and model. The drivers for some models assume
that you are on a system -directly- connected to the printer,
and don't let you install the drivers on other systems. Printing
would then become a matter of having to transfer the document
to the PC that had the printer, and remotely controlling (e.g.,
via VNC) the PC to launch the appropriate program, read the
document in, tell the program to print the document...

If the printers use Postscript or one of the HPCL printer control
languages, then you can probably print remotely no matter what
the device -- but if the printer uses a proprietary internal
language and is connected by USB, consider yourself fortunate
if you are able to use it remotely.

One thing you should beware with printer sharing is that it is
layered on top of NETBIOS, and with NETBIOS you can't ever be
sure that all the devices will be able to see each other.
And being able to see another device is not transitive: the machine
with the printer might be able to browse the PC with the
file without difficulty, but the PC with the file might be
adamant that the PC with the printer does nto exist.

When you are using several PCs with NETBIOS, it is usually a good
idea to dedicate at least one never-turned-off system to be the
Primary Domain Controller (PDC), and perhaps even run a WINS server
on it. Don't just count on the PCs electing a PDC amongst themselves:
even Microsoft themselves say that you can never be sure which
machine will be elected even though the algorithm is supposedly
fixed and deterministic.
--
Contents: 100% recycled post-consumer statements.

What speed of ADSL does he have. 10 pcs sharing a 512mbs download will give
them about 5mbs bandwith each.
10 pcs sharing a 54mbs with an actual throughput of about 22mbs wll give
them about 2.2mbs each. If you run security or have interference it will be
less than that. In this case, the client might be happier with 2 APs.
5 pcs sharing 2 AP would give each an aprox bandwith of 4mbs which is more
in line with the ADSL throughput Of course if they are not going to be using
the web alot, then 1 AP will probably do.
As far as the printers go, you can get like a netgear wireless print server
for about 100 bucks or so that support 2 USB printers.



"John "O"" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:ZHEed.9681$(E-Mail Removed) ...
> I'm in the process of setting up 10x pcs to work in an office. The client
> wants to use his private phone line to connect an ADSL wireless
modem\router
> along with wireless PCI cards installed in each of the pcs.
>
> My question is, would he need just 1x ADSL filter if the phone line is an
> independent line and secondly, is this the best option to take for a
simple
> wireless setup.
>
> My client also wants to hook up 3x printers to use on the network, am I
> right in saying if these are hardwired to 3x different pcs, can they be
> shared with the other pcs when the network is set up.
>
> TIA
>
> John
>
>

"Walter Roberson" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:clf7km$5u5$(E-Mail Removed)...
> In article <ZHEed.9681$(E-Mail Removed)>,
> John \"O\" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> :I'm in the process of setting up 10x pcs to work in an office. The client
> :wants to use his private phone line to connect an ADSL wireless
modem\router
> :along with wireless PCI cards installed in each of the pcs.
>
> :My question is, would he need just 1x ADSL filter if the phone line is an
> :independent line
>

From what I understand there is a main switchboard but my client informs me
that there is a independant line available, if this is the case would it be
only the one ADSL filter required ??

> He will need an ADSL filter for all extensions to the line that are
> -not- plugged into the ADSL router.
>
> :and secondly, is this the best option to take for a simple
> :wireless setup.
>
> Best?? It should function, but "best" is an entirely subjective term.
>
> You aren't telling us anything about internal obstructions in the
> office, or about 2.4 GHz wireless phones, or about the presence
> of microwave ovens, or about the size of the office, or about the
> amount of metal shelving or books (or other paper) in the office.

There are no wireless phones, all are hard wired & this is for a dental
surgergy to which all 5x surgerys are within 30mtrs (40 mtrs max) of each
other and all on one floor. The structure of the building is mainly
plasterboard partioning so I don't think there'll be a problem with the
wireless setup. There's only one small kitchen and unsure if a microware is
installed.

>
> :My client also wants to hook up 3x printers to use on the network, am I
> :right in saying if these are hardwired to 3x different pcs, can they be
> :shared with the other pcs when the network is set up.
>
> Not necessarily. Depends on the version of MS Windows, depends on
> the printer make and model. The drivers for some models assume
> that you are on a system -directly- connected to the printer,
> and don't let you install the drivers on other systems. Printing
> would then become a matter of having to transfer the document
> to the PC that had the printer, and remotely controlling (e.g.,
> via VNC) the PC to launch the appropriate program, read the
> document in, tell the program to print the document...

I'll be using MS Windows professional on all computers and have in fact been
looking at a wireless ADSL modem\router with a built in print server..this
will be the option I'll most likely take to prevent any mishaps.

>
> If the printers use Postscript or one of the HPCL printer control
> languages, then you can probably print remotely no matter what
> the device -- but if the printer uses a proprietary internal
> language and is connected by USB, consider yourself fortunate
> if you are able to use it remotely.
>

The printers are not yet purchased so are you able to advise me on a brand
or models which are good for networking.

> One thing you should beware with printer sharing is that it is
> layered on top of NETBIOS, and with NETBIOS you can't ever be
> sure that all the devices will be able to see each other.
> And being able to see another device is not transitive: the machine
> with the printer might be able to browse the PC with the
> file without difficulty, but the PC with the file might be
> adamant that the PC with the printer does nto exist.
>
> When you are using several PCs with NETBIOS, it is usually a good
> idea to dedicate at least one never-turned-off system to be the
> Primary Domain Controller (PDC), and perhaps even run a WINS server
> on it. Don't just count on the PCs electing a PDC amongst themselves:
> even Microsoft themselves say that you can never be sure which
> machine will be elected even though the algorithm is supposedly
> fixed and deterministic.

With my comment above regading obtaining a print server, would this over
come this problem ??


and finally many thanks for your comments....very much appriciated.

> --
> Contents: 100% recycled post-consumer statements.

"Airhead" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:417bbaa4$0$800$(E-Mail Removed). ..
>
> What speed of ADSL does he have. 10 pcs sharing a 512mbs download will
give
> them about 5mbs bandwith each.

I'm planning to have the 1Mbs service installed, having said that not all
the computer are being used for Internet use, the main use is to play dental
software through the computers for clients and to capture images with
digital cameras etc. The internet will only be used in a small basis as well
as sharing the printers wireless.

> 10 pcs sharing a 54mbs with an actual throughput of about 22mbs wll give
> them about 2.2mbs each. If you run security or have interference it will
be
> less than that. In this case, the client might be happier with 2 APs.
> 5 pcs sharing 2 AP would give each an aprox bandwith of 4mbs which is more
> in line with the ADSL throughput Of course if they are not going to be
using
> the web alot, then 1 AP will probably do.
> As far as the printers go, you can get like a netgear wireless print
server
> for about 100 bucks or so that support 2 USB printers.
>

I'm gonna go for a ADSL Modem\router with a built in print server so fingers
crossed.

>
>
> "John "O"" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:ZHEed.9681$(E-Mail Removed) ...
> > I'm in the process of setting up 10x pcs to work in an office. The
client
> > wants to use his private phone line to connect an ADSL wireless
> modem\router
> > along with wireless PCI cards installed in each of the pcs.
> >
> > My question is, would he need just 1x ADSL filter if the phone line is
an
> > independent line and secondly, is this the best option to take for a
> simple
> > wireless setup.
> >
> > My client also wants to hook up 3x printers to use on the network, am I
> > right in saying if these are hardwired to 3x different pcs, can they be
> > shared with the other pcs when the network is set up.
> >
> > TIA
> >
> > John
> >
> >
>
>

Airhead wrote:
> What speed of ADSL does he have. 10 pcs sharing a 512mbs download will give
> them about 5mbs bandwith each.
> 10 pcs sharing a 54mbs with an actual throughput of about 22mbs wll give
> them about 2.2mbs each. If you run security or have interference it will be
> less than that. In this case, the client might be happier with 2 APs.
> 5 pcs sharing 2 AP would give each an aprox bandwith of 4mbs which is more
> in line with the ADSL throughput Of course if they are not going to be using
> the web alot, then 1 AP will probably do.
The ISP will likely limit the mumber of actual connections that you can
have any one time. A frequent number is three.

The bandwidth could likely be a minor issue.

Consider what each pc will be doing. Will each actually use much
internet access?

With 10 pcs, this will take a commercial router, not your standard 4
port home model.

> As far as the printers go, you can get like a netgear wireless print server
> for about 100 bucks or so that support 2 USB printers.
>

I have mixed shared printers with both XP and 98SE computers with no
trouble except from the firewall program. There you have to "allow"
computers on your intranet by address or MAC.

>
> "John "O"" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:ZHEed.9681$(E-Mail Removed) ...
>
>>I'm in the process of setting up 10x pcs to work in an office. The client
>>wants to use his private phone line to connect an ADSL wireless
>
> modem\router
>
>>along with wireless PCI cards installed in each of the pcs.
>>
>>My question is, would he need just 1x ADSL filter if the phone line is an
>>independent line and secondly, is this the best option to take for a
>
> simple
>
>>wireless setup.
>>
>>My client also wants to hook up 3x printers to use on the network, am I
>>right in saying if these are hardwired to 3x different pcs, can they be
>>shared with the other pcs when the network is set up.
>>
>>TIA
>>
>>John
>>
>>
>
>
>

John "O" wrote:
> I'm in the process of setting up 10x pcs to work in an office. The client
> wants to use his private phone line to connect an ADSL wireless modem\router
> along with wireless PCI cards installed in each of the pcs.

Depending on what type of setup you client is trying to accomplish, WiFi
could be great, or lame. If the office has a file server AND folks use
it *alot*, the wireless network will be s-l-o-w. A 100Mbs netcard
usually can tx/rx at about 75Mbs and in the filesharing world a lowly
PIII 500 could keep the network filled to the brim. If you are only
using the network to surf, WiFi will shine as the connection speeds are
much faster than the DSL connection. I don't know what part of the
country you are in, but here in rainy cold Washington the typical DSL
slow connection is 768/256 in which a 11M ( 802.11b ) connection will
run circles.


>
> My question is, would he need just 1x ADSL filter if the phone line is an
> independent line and secondly, is this the best option to take for a simple
> wireless setup.

I install most DSL connections at DeMark. You then can split off the
DSL before the phone system and put in a filter between the phone system
and the DSL modem. Ok, so I assumed that there is a phone system as you
did say the they have 10PC's? If no phone system, put the DSL
splitter/filter before the building wiring saving you having to put
filters on all of the phones.

>
> My client also wants to hook up 3x printers to use on the network, am I
> right in saying if these are hardwired to 3x different pcs, can they be
> shared with the other pcs when the network is set up.

PCL and PS printers are network hogs. Luckly most users print one or
two pages which doesn't tie up the network for long; get a *big* report
or multiple pages of high res graphics and you can bring it to its'
knees. Most offices that I deal with usually have the fastest, latest
and greatest printers ( 20+ ppm ) which usually means that you can
connect to them via parallel, ethernet, ( appletalk ) or IrD. If memory
serves, the parallel connection should transfer at 350K Bytes per
second, while the ethernet/appletalk will conntect at the switch/hub
speed. A direct cable connection ( parallel, ethernet ) will ALWAYS be
your best connection. Once the data is on the hosting PC, parallel
won't tie up the network, but it will somewhat slow down the PC it is
connected to. Ethernet is probably the best connection choice as you
don't need to leave a PC running and folks can connect to it from
anywhere local assuming that you have the network setup proper.


tod
>
> TIA
>
> John
>
>

In article <wbYed.151198$(E-Mail Removed)> ,
John \"O\" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
:From what I understand there is a main switchboard but my client informs me
:that there is a independant line available, if this is the case would it be
nly the one ADSL filter required ??

If the ADSL modem is the only thing on the independant line, then
you do not need -any- filters.

If there are also phones on the independant phone line (e.g., if
it is used for fax as well), then you must not filter the jack that
the ADSL modem is connected to, and you must filter before anything -other-
than the ADSL modem that is connected to that line.
--
Whose posting was this .signature Google'd from?

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 00:57:00 GMT, "John \"O\"" <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>From what I understand there is a main switchboard but my client informs me
>that there is a independant line available, if this is the case would it be
>only the one ADSL filter required ??

If the POTS (plain old telephone service) line goes through an
electronic switchboard, then DSL will not work. Same with lines using
Pair-Gain, SLC95, VoIP, and various digital multiplexers. You need a
POTS metallic connection between either the CO (central office) or the
RT (remote terminal) to do DSL.

You have two choices in wiring. You can use a splitter at the MPOE
(minimum point of entry) also known as the demarc (point of
demarcation), after the NID (network interface device). This is
generally best as it isolate the ratty inside wiring from the rest of
DSL part of the circuit. The wire going between the DSL modem and the
NID should be a "home run" or direct connection. The splitter has no
circuitry (except possibly a fuse in the Siecor/Corning incantation)
on the DSL side of the circuit. The rest of the phones connect to a
low pass filter in the splitter, thus isolating them from the DSL
modem at the high frequencies (30Khz -> 1.5Mhz) used by DSL.
Instruments can be added to the phone line without changing anything.

The other way is to use microfilters. These are exactly the same as a
splitter, but with limitations as to the number of POTS instruments
that can be connected to the microfilter. More simply, the low pass
section is not as good as the splitter. They're cheap enough that you
could, and should, attach one to every POTS instrument on the line.
That includes FAX machines, answering machines, satellite TV boxes,
CATV settop boxes, modems, computahs with modems, etc. The DSL modem
gets a direct connection to the line. The most common problem is that
someone adds a new instrument to the line, and forgets to install a
microfilter.

For installation with ratty or lengthy inside wiring, or for marginal
distances from the CO, or for VHDSL 6Mbit/sec connections, I recommend
a splitter. For the generic ADSL line, that's fairly close to the CO,
microfilters work well enough.


--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558

"John "O"" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:wbYed.151198$(E-Mail Removed) .uk...
>
> "Walter Roberson" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:clf7km$5u5$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> In article <ZHEed.9681$(E-Mail Removed)>,
>> John \"O\" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> When you are using several PCs with NETBIOS, it is usually a good
>> idea to dedicate at least one never-turned-off system to be the
>> Primary Domain Controller (PDC), and perhaps even run a WINS server
>> on it. Don't just count on the PCs electing a PDC amongst themselves:
>> even Microsoft themselves say that you can never be sure which
>> machine will be elected even though the algorithm is supposedly
>> fixed and deterministic.

PDCs are not elected. I think you're confusing them with Master Browsers.
You can force a Windows XP system to be the Master Browser with the
following registry snippet (other versions of Windows may require slight
changes):


Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Servic es\Browser\Parameters]
"IsDomainMaster"="TRUE"
"MaintainServerList"="Yes"


Ron Bandes, CCNP, CTT+, etc.