Wireless mesh as a partial solution

Recently a poster asked about wireless mesh networks for a neighborhood
setup up. While not knocking the technology, some people have really advised
against such a system. My question especially in regards to dual band radios
is why??

Take for example a rural setting of approx 100 users who want to share a
satellite connection out of the village. The buildings are close enough
where you can use a dual band radio to act as an access point, and as a
backhaul link on two different frequency bands, and then connect out to the
satellite. The users realize that this is a shared medium, and due to to
cost of satellite bandwidth, high bandwidth intensive applications are
expected to run poorly as more people are on line at the same time. But for
generic email and surfing patterns, this kind of network runs good enough.
Now of course when such systems are set up, we reduce power and use terrain
and buildings to attenuate the signals to limit self interference, along
with frequency planning (actually channel planning). This results in a
system where the SNR is acceptable to the receivers to give the clients a
decent connection. I am thinking that properly planned and implemented a
wireless mesh network will work for a small geograpical area where buildings
are close together.

Of course for some larger villages where people are separted by a distance,
we use a combinaton of wimax base stations and mesh as needed. For small
rural areas this appears to fit the solution of providing access to people.
Now you must also realize that this villages are not on a road system, and
the only way in is by small prop planes or barge.

"Dana" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:a0b16$46dc5184$944e306e$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Recently a poster asked about wireless mesh networks for a neighborhood
> setup up. While not knocking the technology, some people have really
> advised against such a system. My question especially in regards to dual
> band radios is why??
>

My recent reads, indicate that single or even dual band radios won't scale
efficiently. IOW, the more users, the less bandwidth available, which gets
real serious when you add more nodes. The last AP, for example, in a 4 node
system, can only access 1/64th the orignial bandwidth in theory, much less
in praactice. I'ts got to do with all the backhaul, overhead, firmware, and
AP mem I think.

The solution is to us "multi radios" to handle all the overhead. At least
that's what I think today

"Mountain Mike^^" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> "Dana" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:a0b16$46dc5184$944e306e$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Recently a poster asked about wireless mesh networks for a neighborhood
>> setup up. While not knocking the technology, some people have really
>> advised against such a system. My question especially in regards to dual
>> band radios is why??
>>
>
> My recent reads, indicate that single or even dual band radios won't scale
> efficiently. IOW, the more users, the less bandwidth available, which gets
> real serious when you add more nodes. The last AP, for example, in a 4
> node system, can only access 1/64th the orignial bandwidth in theory, much
> less in praactice. I'ts got to do with all the backhaul, overhead,
> firmware, and AP mem I think.

Proper backhaul planning and system design can handle this.
I agree about the scalability though, which is why I myself do not use this
technology in the larger villages. But in the smaller villages of say 30 to
50 houses, mesh networking works great and is more cost effective in serving
the limited number of people.
Of course this is not a project for an amatuer, though it can be done if
this person is willing to spend time and money. I am speaking from a telco
perspective where there is grant money and low cost lows that can be used to
install, and maintain such a system.

>
> The solution is to us "multi radios" to handle all the overhead. At least
> that's what I think today


>
>

"Dana" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:8fdd3$46dc54a5$944e306e$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> Of course this is not a project for an amatuer, though it can be done if
> this person is willing to spend time and money. I am speaking from a telco
> perspective where there is grant money and low cost lows that can be used
> to install, and maintain such a system.
>

Well, we are (were) all amatuers once, right? And before that couldn't tie
our own shoes

Need some help somewhere in the boonies? I work cheep, and like to fly.
Got expenses, will travel.

MM^^

"Mountain Mike^^" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> "Dana" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:8fdd3$46dc54a5$944e306e$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>
>> Of course this is not a project for an amatuer, though it can be done if
>> this person is willing to spend time and money. I am speaking from a
>> telco perspective where there is grant money and low cost lows that can
>> be used to install, and maintain such a system.
>>
>
> Well, we are (were) all amatuers once, right? And before that couldn't tie
> our own shoes

Good point. We usually find one or two people in the villages who are able
to help us, especially when a device needs to be power cycled, or an antenna
remounted, and we are in another village, and getting there would take a
couple of days.
>
> Need some help somewhere in the boonies? I work cheep, and like to fly.
> Got expenses, will travel.


Check out rural alaska, and some of its issues. Some villages do not have
good running water or sewer, hence it tends to be quite interesting.
>
> MM^^
>

"Dana" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:d91ae$46dc58f2$944e306e$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> Check out rural alaska, and some of its issues. Some villages do not have
> good running water or sewer, hence it tends to be quite interesting.
>>

Piece of cake. I was in Viet Nam for a few years. Don't kow about the cold,
though.........
Got helicopter? Can fly, too.

"Mountain Mike^^" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> "Dana" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:d91ae$46dc58f2$944e306e$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>
>> Check out rural alaska, and some of its issues. Some villages do not have
>> good running water or sewer, hence it tends to be quite interesting.
>>>
>
> Piece of cake. I was in Viet Nam for a few years. Don't kow about the
> cold, though.........
> Got helicopter? Can fly, too.

While I was not in Vietnam, I was in Iraq twice, once in 91, and also just
recently as a contractor. Lots of helicopter rides out to our microwave
repeater sites (quite a few of them). If you have a telecom background
telealaska, unicomm and a few other rural telcos are looking for help.
We tend to be innovative as we have to keep the old stuff running, and find
ways to provide service to small villages while at least breaking even, or
operating the service on the funds provided to provide service to rural
areas, and the accounting that goes along with government grants and loans.
>
>

On Sep 3, 1:56 pm, "Dana" <raff...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Check out rural alaska, and some of its issues. Some villages do not have
> good running water or sewer, hence it tends to be quite interesting.

One of my towers is accessible only by horse. Vehicles are not
allowed.

<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...
> On Sep 3, 1:56 pm, "Dana" <raff...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Check out rural alaska, and some of its issues. Some villages do not have
>> good running water or sewer, hence it tends to be quite interesting.
>
> One of my towers is accessible only by horse. Vehicles are not
> allowed.

Now that is interesting. Is this site in a national or state park or refuge?

>