Wireless Internet setup

I am thinking about connecting to the Internet using wireless ISP. I am
currently about 2.5km away from the nearest ISP's access point. As far
as I can tell, this is many times longer than any wireless card can
support - normal ranges go around 100-300 meters. Am I true?

I was reading about access points, bridges, repeaters and routers.

As far as I can tell, access points and routers make additional network
to which you can connect and they do not allow you to access some other
available nets (like one of the mentioned ISP). Although they sometimes
have additional external antenna connectors, they are only used to
allow others to connect to the network they create, not to allow them
to connect to ther networks.

Repeaters just prolong the range of the wireless device, but they are
not good because they effectively duplicate the pollution of the
signals originally sent. Wired-wireless bridges connect to the wired
network on the one side and emit wireless to the other side and
vice-versa. Thus, bridges are the only possible (and good) solution
(beside antennas) to increase the range. Better said, they are the only
solution to actively increase the signal strenght.

Are the above statements right? What are the options and what should be
done?

In fact, does anyone know a good web site where all these are outlined
well? I am interested in wireless beside my will to connect to the
Internet. I want to learn more about the types of the devices used and
how some of them could possibly help me in situations like the above.

Thanks for any help!

More than the distance relative altitude is also very important. If there is
a obstruction inbetween there is no way you can connect. Get a GPS and do a
site survey between both points.

If there is no obstruction then use a Senao outdoor Bridge at your end and a
Senao outdoor AP with a 23 Dbm Semi parabolic antenna at both ends.

Have a unique SSID and change the IP of the AP and Bridge to some class C.
Dable around with the frequency for best throughput.

shanks

<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...
>I am thinking about connecting to the Internet using wireless ISP. I am
> currently about 2.5km away from the nearest ISP's access point. As far
> as I can tell, this is many times longer than any wireless card can
> support - normal ranges go around 100-300 meters. Am I true?
>
> I was reading about access points, bridges, repeaters and routers.
>
> As far as I can tell, access points and routers make additional network
> to which you can connect and they do not allow you to access some other
> available nets (like one of the mentioned ISP). Although they sometimes
> have additional external antenna connectors, they are only used to
> allow others to connect to the network they create, not to allow them
> to connect to ther networks.
>
> Repeaters just prolong the range of the wireless device, but they are
> not good because they effectively duplicate the pollution of the
> signals originally sent. Wired-wireless bridges connect to the wired
> network on the one side and emit wireless to the other side and
> vice-versa. Thus, bridges are the only possible (and good) solution
> (beside antennas) to increase the range. Better said, they are the only
> solution to actively increase the signal strenght.
>
> Are the above statements right? What are the options and what should be
> done?
>
> In fact, does anyone know a good web site where all these are outlined
> well? I am interested in wireless beside my will to connect to the
> Internet. I want to learn more about the types of the devices used and
> how some of them could possibly help me in situations like the above.
>
> Thanks for any help!
>

(E-Mail Removed) hath wroth:

>I am thinking about connecting to the Internet using wireless ISP. I am
>currently about 2.5km away from the nearest ISP's access point. As far
>as I can tell, this is many times longer than any wireless card can
>support - normal ranges go around 100-300 meters. Am I true?

Basically true. It's really a function of the antennas. The typical
client radio has an antenna gain of about 0dBi (or no gain at all). A
big outdoor dish has a gain of about 24dBi. 24dBi is equal to 250
times the power. A good rule of thumb is that your range will double
for every 6dB of antenna gain. 12dB is 4 times.

You might want to do the calculations at:
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/FAQ_for...k_Calculations
It's a bit complex for a beginner, but it will need to be done
eventually if you are going to make this work. You'll need some
numbers from your wireless ISP, such as their equipment and antenna
specifications.

>I was reading about access points, bridges, repeaters and routers.
>
>As far as I can tell, access points and routers make additional network
>to which you can connect and they do not allow you to access some other
>available nets (like one of the mentioned ISP).

Something like that. Access control comes in layers and may involve
several protocols. For example, it is possible to control access at
the access point with the MAC layer, at the router with IP addresses,
at the wireless access point with encryption keys, and at the network
with a login and password (RADIUS). Your wireless ISP should have a
list of recommended equipment which should simplify things.

>Although they sometimes
>have additional external antenna connectors, they are only used to
>allow others to connect to the network they create, not to allow them
>to connect to ther networks.

There is no connection between the type of antenna connector and who
is allowed to connect to their networks.

>Repeaters just prolong the range of the wireless device, but they are
>not good because they effectively duplicate the pollution of the
>signals originally sent.

Correct. Only one radio may transmit in a given airspace. Add a
repeater and everything gets transmitted twice, which leaves less time
for others to move data.

>Wired-wireless bridges connect to the wired
>network on the one side and emit wireless to the other side and
>vice-versa. Thus, bridges are the only possible (and good) solution
>(beside antennas) to increase the range. Better said, they are the only
>solution to actively increase the signal strenght.

Please realize that ALL wireless is bridging. There may be a router
tacked onto the system at both ends to deal with the IP stuff, but the
basic wireless functions are bridging. Unfortunately, there are a few
confusing types of wireless bridging.
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/FAQ_for...ireless_Bridge

>Are the above statements right? What are the options and what should be
>done?

Basically, they're mostly correct. Your options are dictated by the
wireless ISP. To connect to their system, you will probably need
compatible or possibly approved hardware. Follow their lead.

>In fact, does anyone know a good web site where all these are outlined
>well?
>
>I am interested in wireless beside my will to connect to the
>Internet. I want to learn more about the types of the devices used and
>how some of them could possibly help me in situations like the above.

Between the protocols, hardware, radio frequency equipment, and
antennas, you have more than one web pile could possibly supply. I
suggest you simplify things and recognize that you're going to need a
client adapter and antenna. Probably both will need to be mounted
outdoors to keep coax cable losses to a minimum. The stuff at the
WISP end is fixed and not going to change. Work on calculating how
big an antenna you'll need for 1.5Km. Worry about line of sight and
Fresnel zone clearance. In the process, you'll learn a bit about RF,
decibels, gain, patterns, line-o-sight, power, sensitivity, fade
margin, and such. When you get that nailed, come back for more.
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/FAQ_for...k_Calculations

--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

(E-Mail Removed) wrote in news:1137752772.511503.117270
@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

> I am thinking about connecting to the Internet using wireless ISP. I am
> currently about 2.5km away from the nearest ISP's access point. As far
> as I can tell, this is many times longer than any wireless card can
> support - normal ranges go around 100-300 meters. Am I true?
>
> I was reading about access points, bridges, repeaters and routers.
>
> As far as I can tell, access points and routers make additional network
> to which you can connect and they do not allow you to access some other
> available nets (like one of the mentioned ISP). Although they sometimes
> have additional external antenna connectors, they are only used to
> allow others to connect to the network they create, not to allow them
> to connect to ther networks.
>
> Repeaters just prolong the range of the wireless device, but they are
> not good because they effectively duplicate the pollution of the
> signals originally sent. Wired-wireless bridges connect to the wired
> network on the one side and emit wireless to the other side and
> vice-versa. Thus, bridges are the only possible (and good) solution
> (beside antennas) to increase the range. Better said, they are the only
> solution to actively increase the signal strenght.
>
> Are the above statements right? What are the options and what should be
> done?
>
> In fact, does anyone know a good web site where all these are outlined
> well? I am interested in wireless beside my will to connect to the
> Internet. I want to learn more about the types of the devices used and
> how some of them could possibly help me in situations like the above.
>
> Thanks for any help!
>

The first thing to do would be to call them and ask them if your in their
coverage area. If the prop studies show that you are, they (any good ISP
anyway) will come and do a site survey to qualify you. Then you start
asking questions about equipment. ISP grade equipment has waaaaaay more
than a 2.5 kM range.

For instance, I used to work for Clearwire when they were still using
their own OEM equipment (and before I got screwed), in the 2.4Ghz band.
Granted it wasn't an 11 mbps connection, more like 1 mbps, but with good
line of site the range was greater than 25 miles, at that full speed,
there was no speed degredation based on distance.


DanS

Thank you for the reply!

#>>>
>Although they sometimes
>have additional external antenna connectors, they are only used to
>allow others to connect to the network they create, not to allow them
>to connect to ther networks.

There is no connection between the type of antenna connector and who
is allowed to connect to their networks.
#<<<
Yes, that is right. I wrongly linked two problems that, in fact, don't
have too much in common.

#>>>
Please realize that ALL wireless is bridging. There may be a router
tacked onto the system at both ends to deal with the IP stuff, but the
basic wireless functions are bridging.
#<<<
OK, so APs are wireless-wired bridges, I realized that. The same
applies to routers, they only have more options (router = AP with
routing capabilities).

Assume I have some wireless network A (ex. an ISPs wireless network).
When I connect an AP to the computer K, it will create some wireless
network B. Assume it is near network A's antenna, so it will be able to
notice both network A and network B. I will surely see the network B
computers from computer K, but will I see the network A computers? How
do I configure the AP to do so, if possible?

How do I even ask AP to give me the list of the networks it sees? On
laptops, you have simple discovery options, but they have built-in
wireless adapters. When I connect to AP using the cable (like the
computer K mentioned), the computer doesn't know it's AP on the othre
side - AP is behaving like a switch in this case.

> How do I even ask AP to give me the list of the networks it sees? On
> laptops, you have simple discovery options, but they have built-in
> wireless adapters. When I connect to AP using the cable (like the
> computer K mentioned), the computer doesn't know it's AP on the othre
> side - AP is behaving like a switch in this case.

You use the AP's management software to choose which network it connects
to, some include a site survey where the AP can act as a client.

David.