Wireless connecting 2 buildings

Hey Guys,

I really need some help with this one.....


We have 2 buildings up north, one gets internet connection through
satellite, the other nothing...


My bosses now have decided that the other building needs to be
connected, which means I need to figure out a way to connect them....


One guy is telling me that you can get small dishes, since the
buildings are about 2 km away from each other and "in line of sight",
that will "beam" the signal over....


Basically, and the easiest way to put it..... Building 1 has server,
building 2 has internet. Building 1 needs access to server, then
eventually building 3 (which is FAR AWAY from both these buildings)
will also need access to the server in building 1. On another note,
when they go to trade shows and such to sell products they will want to

be able to access the server at building 1 to set up new accounts.....


All I can think of is using netscreens...... but having very little
knowledg about netscreens Im very hesitant on using them.... THERES
gotta be a different way!!!


Please help me out, as this needs to happen in the very near future!!!


Thanks!

Currently Im looking into Yagi antennas.....Trying to get any
information from suppliers is a nightmare, nobody really seems to know
anything about this stuff....


PLEASE HELP ME!!!

(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> Currently Im looking into Yagi antennas.....Trying to get any
> information from suppliers is a nightmare, nobody really seems to know
> anything about this stuff....
>
>
> PLEASE HELP ME!!!
>

Thats why you often need to hire someone specialized. Since it is a
commercial application with some apparent urgency why not tell the
bosses that a outside company needs to be hired just as if a new roof or
conveyor line had to be installed?

(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> My bosses now have decided that the other building needs to be
> connected, which means I need to figure out a way to connect them....

Put a commercial grade access point ($500) on a 20 or 40 foot mast
with omni antenna ($150) at one end and outside mounted subscriber
units ($250 each) at the other ends.

> One guy is telling me that you can get small dishes, since the
> buildings are about 2 km away from each other and "in line of sight",
> that will "beam" the signal over....

I don't know how small small is (but then Clinton didn't know what is was),
but a 3 ft. grill dish will run you about $400 and have same gain as a
$1,000 solid dish. Or a $100 flat panel antenna good for half the range.

> Basically, and the easiest way to put it..... Building 1 has server,
> building 2 has internet. Building 1 needs access to server, then
> eventually building 3 (which is FAR AWAY from both these buildings)
> will also need access to the server in building 1.

How far is far? Twenty miles?

> On another note,
> when they go to trade shows and such to sell products they will want to
> be able to access the server at building 1 to set up new accounts.....
> All I can think of is using netscreens...... but having very little
> knowledg about netscreens Im very hesitant on using them.... THERES
> gotta be a different way!!!

You have two options here, virtual network computing or virtual
desktopping.

VPN apps would include (in order of secutity)
Real VNC http://www.realvnc.com
Ultra VNC http://ultravnc.sourceforge.net
Remote Admin http://www.famatech.com/
Dameware http://www.dameware.com

However, these apps talk to the remote computer's IP address and if its
behind a router, its no trivial task to set them up.

Or you can use a Citrix based Remote Desktop app. The most well known
is the GoToMyPC that allows one PC to connect to another. Since its a
tunneling technology using the http protocol, it can see through the IT
infrastructure and not worry about port forwarding, firewalls, etc.

For distances like that you will need point to point Microwave transcievers,
not 802.11 access point hardware. You did indicate what country you are
located, if in the USA you will need a radio licensed contractor who can
survey and get clearance from the FCC as other terrestrial microwave users
may interfere with you (or them) if the signals paths parallel each other on
the same frequency. Also Microwave signals must be line of sight, otherwise
repeaters or passive reflectors must be placed where the signals can be
pointed to go around obstacles. Microwave instalations require licensing in
the US also. Bandwidth can be huge if needed- a single T-1 up to a T-3 (28
T-1s) is possible with the right hardware. Another possiblility is optical
transcievers.
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) ups.com...
> Hey Guys,
>
> I really need some help with this one.....
>
>
> We have 2 buildings up north, one gets internet connection through
> satellite, the other nothing...
>
>
> My bosses now have decided that the other building needs to be
> connected, which means I need to figure out a way to connect them....
>
>
> One guy is telling me that you can get small dishes, since the
> buildings are about 2 km away from each other and "in line of sight",
> that will "beam" the signal over....
>
>
> Basically, and the easiest way to put it..... Building 1 has server,
> building 2 has internet. Building 1 needs access to server, then
> eventually building 3 (which is FAR AWAY from both these buildings)
> will also need access to the server in building 1. On another note,
> when they go to trade shows and such to sell products they will want to
>
> be able to access the server at building 1 to set up new accounts.....
>
>
> All I can think of is using netscreens...... but having very little
> knowledg about netscreens Im very hesitant on using them.... THERES
> gotta be a different way!!!
>
>
> Please help me out, as this needs to happen in the very near future!!!
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>

FYI, unlicensed 802.11 Wi-Fi can handle 2km with line of sight,
sufficient clearance/height to keep the Fresnel zone
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fresnel_zone> clear, and the right
equipment.


On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 22:00:47 GMT, "lk" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
in <jiq7h.7925$(E-Mail Removed)>:

>For distances like that you will need point to point Microwave transcievers,
>not 802.11 access point hardware. You did indicate what country you are
>located, if in the USA you will need a radio licensed contractor who can
>survey and get clearance from the FCC as other terrestrial microwave users
>may interfere with you (or them) if the signals paths parallel each other on
>the same frequency. Also Microwave signals must be line of sight, otherwise
>repeaters or passive reflectors must be placed where the signals can be
>pointed to go around obstacles. Microwave instalations require licensing in
>the US also. Bandwidth can be huge if needed- a single T-1 up to a T-3 (28
>T-1s) is possible with the right hardware. Another possiblility is optical
>transcievers.
><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...
>> Hey Guys,
>>
>> I really need some help with this one.....
>>
>>
>> We have 2 buildings up north, one gets internet connection through
>> satellite, the other nothing...
>>
>>
>> My bosses now have decided that the other building needs to be
>> connected, which means I need to figure out a way to connect them....
>>
>>
>> One guy is telling me that you can get small dishes, since the
>> buildings are about 2 km away from each other and "in line of sight",
>> that will "beam" the signal over....
>>
>>
>> Basically, and the easiest way to put it..... Building 1 has server,
>> building 2 has internet. Building 1 needs access to server, then
>> eventually building 3 (which is FAR AWAY from both these buildings)
>> will also need access to the server in building 1. On another note,
>> when they go to trade shows and such to sell products they will want to
>>
>> be able to access the server at building 1 to set up new accounts.....
>>
>>
>> All I can think of is using netscreens...... but having very little
>> knowledg about netscreens Im very hesitant on using them.... THERES
>> gotta be a different way!!!
>>
>>
>> Please help me out, as this needs to happen in the very near future!!!
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

On 6 Nov 2006 08:57:52 -0800, (E-Mail Removed) wrote in
<(E-Mail Removed). com>:

>I really need some help with this one.....
>
>
>We have 2 buildings up north, one gets internet connection through
>satellite, the other nothing...
>
>My bosses now have decided that the other building needs to be
>connected, which means I need to figure out a way to connect them....
>
>One guy is telling me that you can get small dishes, since the
>buildings are about 2 km away from each other and "in line of sight",
>that will "beam" the signal over....

802.11 Wi-Fi can handle 2km with line of sight, sufficient
clearance/height to keep the Fresnel zone
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fresnel_zone> clear, and the right
equipment.

>Basically, and the easiest way to put it..... Building 1 has server,
>building 2 has internet. Building 1 needs access to server, then
>eventually building 3 (which is FAR AWAY from both these buildings)
>will also need access to the server in building 1. On another note,
>when they go to trade shows and such to sell products they will want to

The maximum range to building 3 will be on the order of a few miles *if*
you satisfy the conditions above. The radios will need to be pretty
high to keep the Fresnel zone clear.

>be able to access the server at building 1 to set up new accounts.....
>
>All I can think of is using netscreens...... but having very little
>knowledg about netscreens Im very hesitant on using them.... THERES
>gotta be a different way!!!

Use VNC <http://www.realvnc.com/>.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

802.11 can certainly be used for distances of 2 km and well beyond, although
I don't whether it can be used for communications to building 1 (which is
FAR AWAY in capital letters.)

You can see http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/...8009459b.shtml
for examples of what we support with 802.11 bridges.

Aaron

---

~ For distances like that you will need point to point Microwave transcievers,
~ not 802.11 access point hardware. You did indicate what country you are
~ located, if in the USA you will need a radio licensed contractor who can
~ survey and get clearance from the FCC as other terrestrial microwave users
~ may interfere with you (or them) if the signals paths parallel each other on
~ the same frequency. Also Microwave signals must be line of sight, otherwise
~ repeaters or passive reflectors must be placed where the signals can be
~ pointed to go around obstacles. Microwave instalations require licensing in
~ the US also. Bandwidth can be huge if needed- a single T-1 up to a T-3 (28
~ T-1s) is possible with the right hardware. Another possiblility is optical
~ transcievers.
~ <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
~ news:(E-Mail Removed) ups.com...
~ > Hey Guys,
~ >
~ > I really need some help with this one.....
~ >
~ >
~ > We have 2 buildings up north, one gets internet connection through
~ > satellite, the other nothing...
~ >
~ >
~ > My bosses now have decided that the other building needs to be
~ > connected, which means I need to figure out a way to connect them....
~ >
~ >
~ > One guy is telling me that you can get small dishes, since the
~ > buildings are about 2 km away from each other and "in line of sight",
~ > that will "beam" the signal over....
~ >
~ >
~ > Basically, and the easiest way to put it..... Building 1 has server,
~ > building 2 has internet. Building 1 needs access to server, then
~ > eventually building 3 (which is FAR AWAY from both these buildings)
~ > will also need access to the server in building 1. On another note,
~ > when they go to trade shows and such to sell products they will want to
~ >
~ > be able to access the server at building 1 to set up new accounts.....
~ >
~ >
~ > All I can think of is using netscreens...... but having very little
~ > knowledg about netscreens Im very hesitant on using them.... THERES
~ > gotta be a different way!!!
~ >
~ >
~ > Please help me out, as this needs to happen in the very near future!!!
~ >
~ >
~ > Thanks!
~ >
~ >
~

John Navas wrote:
> Use VNC <http://www.realvnc.com/>.
>

Or UltraVNC http://ultravnc.sourceforge.net/

lk wrote:
> For distances like that you will need point to point Microwave transcievers,
> not 802.11 access point hardware.

For 2 KM? That's only just over a mile. Off the shelf WiFi gear
will work just fine as long as you don't have obstructions. Two
antennas at 20 feet should give you .3 Fresnel factor (70%
encroachment of the path midway) with only about five foot
variations in the ground elevations. Around 25-30 dB link budget,
so with a 15 dB fade margin, you'll have room to play with.
Most likely you d want to run 802.11g 54 Mbps gear for the
OFDM and turn it down to only 6 Mbps.

> Another possiblility is optical transcievers.

2 KM might be really pushing it for optical gear.
Proxim's TeraOpti 4221 is rated at 20 meters to 1,000 meters
for a mere $17,000 for a pair of units.
Other brands might be better.