WINS required for multi subnet 2003 domain using DFS with 2k&XP clients ?

Hi. We are deploying a new small network (single domain over multiple
subnets) with the O/Ss below and would appreciate if anyone could clarify
whether we should setup WINS Servers on the two domain controllers ? In
particular does the use of 2003 R2 DFS/DFSR and 'Network Places' require
NETBIOS and therefore in our case due to multiple subnets WINS Servers ?

2 x 2003 R2 SP2 DCs [Both DCs hosting DFS roots]
5 x 2003 SP2 and 2000 SP4 Servers
20 x XP SP2 & 2000 SP4 clients

Thanks for any help.

Always runs WINS.
It is small & light and cost virtually nothing to run and has pretty much no
maintainence. But it often solves or prevents a lot of unexplainable "mystery"
behavor. It isn't just Windows you have to consider,..you have to consider every
single Application that ever gets run on those machines and what the developers
did with it when they wrote it.

--
Phillip Windell
www.wandtv.com

The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft, or
anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
-----------------------------------------------------

"Newsgroups" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hi. We are deploying a new small network (single domain over multiple
> subnets) with the O/Ss below and would appreciate if anyone could clarify
> whether we should setup WINS Servers on the two domain controllers ? In
> particular does the use of 2003 R2 DFS/DFSR and 'Network Places' require
> NETBIOS and therefore in our case due to multiple subnets WINS Servers ?
>
> 2 x 2003 R2 SP2 DCs [Both DCs hosting DFS roots]
> 5 x 2003 SP2 and 2000 SP4 Servers
> 20 x XP SP2 & 2000 SP4 clients
>
> Thanks for any help.
>

Microsoft recommends NOT installing WINS in a situation like this, as it
is not needed, and is a security risk. WINS is only needed for OS's
prior to NT 2000 and since none of your OS's fit that description I
wouldn't install it.

The only time I use a WINS server on a network that does not include
older systems is when troubleshooting DNS or something like that. I then
remove it once I have things working correctly.

"Newsgroups" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
news:#(E-Mail Removed):

> Hi. We are deploying a new small network (single domain over multiple
> subnets) with the O/Ss below and would appreciate if anyone could
> clarify whether we should setup WINS Servers on the two domain
> controllers ? In particular does the use of 2003 R2 DFS/DFSR and
> 'Network Places' require NETBIOS and therefore in our case due to
> multiple subnets WINS Servers ?
>
> 2 x 2003 R2 SP2 DCs [Both DCs hosting DFS roots]
> 5 x 2003 SP2 and 2000 SP4 Servers
> 20 x XP SP2 & 2000 SP4 clients
>
> Thanks for any help.
>
>

Read inline please.

In news:Xns9924AD294127Anowaycom@207.46.248.16,
Red Swingline Stapler <(E-Mail Removed)> typed:
> Microsoft recommends NOT installing WINS in a situation like this, as
> it is not needed, and is a security risk. WINS is only needed for OS's
> prior to NT 2000 and since none of your OS's fit that description I
> wouldn't install it.
>
> The only time I use a WINS server on a network that does not include
> older systems is when troubleshooting DNS or something like that. I
> then remove it once I have things working correctly.

You are very incorrect here. I've never heard of Microsoft making a blanket
recommendation like this, in fact it is quite the opposite.

When he said, "single domain over multiple subnets" that throws up a big red
flag that says, install and use WINS.
WINS is almost assuredly required in this situation because old habits, like
browsing Network Places are almost impossible to break. WINS is required by
many legacy applications that depend on NetBIOS name resolution, one of
these is Network Browsing with multiple subnets.

Unique NetBIOS names must be used with WINS in an Active Directory forest
with Windows 2000 Server and Windows Server 2003:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927070/en-us


--
Best regards,
Kevin D. Goodknecht Sr. [MVP]
Hope This Helps
Send IM: http://www.icq.com/people/webmsg.php?to=296095728
===================================
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via your newsreader so that others may learn and
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me remove the nospam. from my email address.
===================================
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http://message.wftx.us/
===================================
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===================================
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http://www.oehelp.com/OEBackup/Default.aspx
===================================

Browsing through Network Places depends on Netbios names and the computer
browser service. The computer browser service relies on broadcasts, so it
fails in a routed network without WINS.

If you are planning to use more than one WINS server you will need to
set them up so that they replicate. You will only get network-wide browsing
through Network Places if all the master browsers are using the same
namespace and can find each other across routers.

Sorry to drop in on this post but after reading I am slightly concerned how
our small network is configured which may also help the original poster.
Our current network is of a similar size with mainly Windows 2000
workstations and 2000/2003 servers. The network is one domain using
multiple subnets and does not have any WINS servers. Our users are still
able to open Network Places, see all the workstations and servers on the
network and browse to them as well as use 'net use' etc.

Can anyone please explain how we are able to do this if we have no WINS
servers but are using multiple subnets ?

Appreciate any help.
Alex.


"Kevin D. Goodknecht Sr. [MVP]" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Read inline please.
>
> In news:Xns9924AD294127Anowaycom@207.46.248.16,
> Red Swingline Stapler <(E-Mail Removed)> typed:
>> Microsoft recommends NOT installing WINS in a situation like this, as
>> it is not needed, and is a security risk. WINS is only needed for OS's
>> prior to NT 2000 and since none of your OS's fit that description I
>> wouldn't install it.
>>
>> The only time I use a WINS server on a network that does not include
>> older systems is when troubleshooting DNS or something like that. I
>> then remove it once I have things working correctly.
>
> You are very incorrect here. I've never heard of Microsoft making a
> blanket
> recommendation like this, in fact it is quite the opposite.
>
> When he said, "single domain over multiple subnets" that throws up a big
> red
> flag that says, install and use WINS.
> WINS is almost assuredly required in this situation because old habits,
> like
> browsing Network Places are almost impossible to break. WINS is required
> by
> many legacy applications that depend on NetBIOS name resolution, one of
> these is Network Browsing with multiple subnets.
>
> Unique NetBIOS names must be used with WINS in an Active Directory forest
> with Windows 2000 Server and Windows Server 2003:
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927070/en-us
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Kevin D. Goodknecht Sr. [MVP]
> Hope This Helps
> Send IM: http://www.icq.com/people/webmsg.php?to=296095728
> ===================================
> When responding to posts, please "Reply to Group"
> via your newsreader so that others may learn and
> benefit from your issue, to respond directly to
> me remove the nospam. from my email address.
> ===================================
> http://www.lonestaramerica.com/
> http://support.wftx.us/
> http://message.wftx.us/
> ===================================
> Use Outlook Express?... Get OE_Quotefix:
> It will strip signature out and more
> http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/
> ===================================
> Keep a back up of your OE settings and folders
> with OEBackup:
> http://www.oehelp.com/OEBackup/Default.aspx
> ===================================
>
>

According to my Microsoft Press books for the 70-291 exam the "blanket
statement" I said remains true. And I do assume that the Microsoft press
books are written per Microsoft recommendations.


"Kevin D. Goodknecht Sr. [MVP]" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
news:(E-Mail Removed):

> Read inline please.
>
> In news:Xns9924AD294127Anowaycom@207.46.248.16,
> Red Swingline Stapler <(E-Mail Removed)> typed:
>> Microsoft recommends NOT installing WINS in a situation like this, as
>> it is not needed, and is a security risk. WINS is only needed for
>> OS's prior to NT 2000 and since none of your OS's fit that
>> description I wouldn't install it.
>>
>> The only time I use a WINS server on a network that does not include
>> older systems is when troubleshooting DNS or something like that. I
>> then remove it once I have things working correctly.
>
> You are very incorrect here. I've never heard of Microsoft making a
> blanket recommendation like this, in fact it is quite the opposite.
>
> When he said, "single domain over multiple subnets" that throws up a
> big red flag that says, install and use WINS.
> WINS is almost assuredly required in this situation because old
> habits, like browsing Network Places are almost impossible to break.
> WINS is required by many legacy applications that depend on NetBIOS
> name resolution, one of these is Network Browsing with multiple
> subnets.
>
> Unique NetBIOS names must be used with WINS in an Active Directory
> forest with Windows 2000 Server and Windows Server 2003:
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927070/en-us
>
>

How are the subnets linked to each other? If it works without WINS, the
routers must be configured to forward broadcasts. That means that, although
you have separate IP subnets, all machines are in the same broadcast domain.

"Alex" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Sorry to drop in on this post but after reading I am slightly concerned
> how our small network is configured which may also help the original
> poster. Our current network is of a similar size with mainly Windows 2000
> workstations and 2000/2003 servers. The network is one domain using
> multiple subnets and does not have any WINS servers. Our users are still
> able to open Network Places, see all the workstations and servers on the
> network and browse to them as well as use 'net use' etc.
>
> Can anyone please explain how we are able to do this if we have no WINS
> servers but are using multiple subnets ?
>
> Appreciate any help.
> Alex.
>
>
> "Kevin D. Goodknecht Sr. [MVP]" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Read inline please.
>>
>> In news:Xns9924AD294127Anowaycom@207.46.248.16,
>> Red Swingline Stapler <(E-Mail Removed)> typed:
>>> Microsoft recommends NOT installing WINS in a situation like this, as
>>> it is not needed, and is a security risk. WINS is only needed for OS's
>>> prior to NT 2000 and since none of your OS's fit that description I
>>> wouldn't install it.
>>>
>>> The only time I use a WINS server on a network that does not include
>>> older systems is when troubleshooting DNS or something like that. I
>>> then remove it once I have things working correctly.
>>
>> You are very incorrect here. I've never heard of Microsoft making a
>> blanket
>> recommendation like this, in fact it is quite the opposite.
>>
>> When he said, "single domain over multiple subnets" that throws up a big
>> red
>> flag that says, install and use WINS.
>> WINS is almost assuredly required in this situation because old habits,
>> like
>> browsing Network Places are almost impossible to break. WINS is required
>> by
>> many legacy applications that depend on NetBIOS name resolution, one of
>> these is Network Browsing with multiple subnets.
>>
>> Unique NetBIOS names must be used with WINS in an Active Directory forest
>> with Windows 2000 Server and Windows Server 2003:
>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927070/en-us
>>
>>
>> --
>> Best regards,
>> Kevin D. Goodknecht Sr. [MVP]
>> Hope This Helps
>> Send IM: http://www.icq.com/people/webmsg.php?to=296095728
>> ===================================
>> When responding to posts, please "Reply to Group"
>> via your newsreader so that others may learn and
>> benefit from your issue, to respond directly to
>> me remove the nospam. from my email address.
>> ===================================
>> http://www.lonestaramerica.com/
>> http://support.wftx.us/
>> http://message.wftx.us/
>> ===================================
>> Use Outlook Express?... Get OE_Quotefix:
>> It will strip signature out and more
>> http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/
>> ===================================
>> Keep a back up of your OE settings and folders
>> with OEBackup:
>> http://www.oehelp.com/OEBackup/Default.aspx
>> ===================================
>>
>>
>
>

Hi Bill, thanks for your help. The subnets are connected using enterprise
switches, I hadn't thought of broadcast forwarding, I will look into this.

Is there any advice on what is better to use ? I'm presuming using WINS
would be better to keep broadcast traffic to a minimum ?



"Bill Grant" <not.available@online> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> How are the subnets linked to each other? If it works without WINS, the
> routers must be configured to forward broadcasts. That means that,
> although you have separate IP subnets, all machines are in the same
> broadcast domain.
>
> "Alex" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Sorry to drop in on this post but after reading I am slightly concerned
>> how our small network is configured which may also help the original
>> poster. Our current network is of a similar size with mainly Windows 2000
>> workstations and 2000/2003 servers. The network is one domain using
>> multiple subnets and does not have any WINS servers. Our users are still
>> able to open Network Places, see all the workstations and servers on the
>> network and browse to them as well as use 'net use' etc.
>>
>> Can anyone please explain how we are able to do this if we have no WINS
>> servers but are using multiple subnets ?
>>
>> Appreciate any help.
>> Alex.
>>
>>
>> "Kevin D. Goodknecht Sr. [MVP]" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> Read inline please.
>>>
>>> In news:Xns9924AD294127Anowaycom@207.46.248.16,
>>> Red Swingline Stapler <(E-Mail Removed)> typed:
>>>> Microsoft recommends NOT installing WINS in a situation like this, as
>>>> it is not needed, and is a security risk. WINS is only needed for OS's
>>>> prior to NT 2000 and since none of your OS's fit that description I
>>>> wouldn't install it.
>>>>
>>>> The only time I use a WINS server on a network that does not include
>>>> older systems is when troubleshooting DNS or something like that. I
>>>> then remove it once I have things working correctly.
>>>
>>> You are very incorrect here. I've never heard of Microsoft making a
>>> blanket
>>> recommendation like this, in fact it is quite the opposite.
>>>
>>> When he said, "single domain over multiple subnets" that throws up a big
>>> red
>>> flag that says, install and use WINS.
>>> WINS is almost assuredly required in this situation because old habits,
>>> like
>>> browsing Network Places are almost impossible to break. WINS is required
>>> by
>>> many legacy applications that depend on NetBIOS name resolution, one of
>>> these is Network Browsing with multiple subnets.
>>>
>>> Unique NetBIOS names must be used with WINS in an Active Directory
>>> forest
>>> with Windows 2000 Server and Windows Server 2003:
>>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927070/en-us
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Best regards,
>>> Kevin D. Goodknecht Sr. [MVP]
>>> Hope This Helps
>>> Send IM: http://www.icq.com/people/webmsg.php?to=296095728
>>> ===================================
>>> When responding to posts, please "Reply to Group"
>>> via your newsreader so that others may learn and
>>> benefit from your issue, to respond directly to
>>> me remove the nospam. from my email address.
>>> ===================================
>>> http://www.lonestaramerica.com/
>>> http://support.wftx.us/
>>> http://message.wftx.us/
>>> ===================================
>>> Use Outlook Express?... Get OE_Quotefix:
>>> It will strip signature out and more
>>> http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/
>>> ===================================
>>> Keep a back up of your OE settings and folders
>>> with OEBackup:
>>> http://www.oehelp.com/OEBackup/Default.aspx
>>> ===================================
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Yes, turning off broadcast forwarding and making all the machines WINS
clients should cut down on LAN broadcasts. Netbios name resolution would
only fall back to broadcasting if WINS failed.

"Alex" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hi Bill, thanks for your help. The subnets are connected using enterprise
> switches, I hadn't thought of broadcast forwarding, I will look into this.
>
> Is there any advice on what is better to use ? I'm presuming using WINS
> would be better to keep broadcast traffic to a minimum ?
>
>
>
> "Bill Grant" <not.available@online> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> How are the subnets linked to each other? If it works without WINS, the
>> routers must be configured to forward broadcasts. That means that,
>> although you have separate IP subnets, all machines are in the same
>> broadcast domain.
>>
>> "Alex" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> Sorry to drop in on this post but after reading I am slightly concerned
>>> how our small network is configured which may also help the original
>>> poster. Our current network is of a similar size with mainly Windows
>>> 2000 workstations and 2000/2003 servers. The network is one domain
>>> using multiple subnets and does not have any WINS servers. Our users
>>> are still able to open Network Places, see all the workstations and
>>> servers on the network and browse to them as well as use 'net use' etc.
>>>
>>> Can anyone please explain how we are able to do this if we have no WINS
>>> servers but are using multiple subnets ?
>>>
>>> Appreciate any help.
>>> Alex.
>>>
>>>
>>> "Kevin D. Goodknecht Sr. [MVP]" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>> Read inline please.
>>>>
>>>> In news:Xns9924AD294127Anowaycom@207.46.248.16,
>>>> Red Swingline Stapler <(E-Mail Removed)> typed:
>>>>> Microsoft recommends NOT installing WINS in a situation like this, as
>>>>> it is not needed, and is a security risk. WINS is only needed for OS's
>>>>> prior to NT 2000 and since none of your OS's fit that description I
>>>>> wouldn't install it.
>>>>>
>>>>> The only time I use a WINS server on a network that does not include
>>>>> older systems is when troubleshooting DNS or something like that. I
>>>>> then remove it once I have things working correctly.
>>>>
>>>> You are very incorrect here. I've never heard of Microsoft making a
>>>> blanket
>>>> recommendation like this, in fact it is quite the opposite.
>>>>
>>>> When he said, "single domain over multiple subnets" that throws up a
>>>> big red
>>>> flag that says, install and use WINS.
>>>> WINS is almost assuredly required in this situation because old habits,
>>>> like
>>>> browsing Network Places are almost impossible to break. WINS is
>>>> required by
>>>> many legacy applications that depend on NetBIOS name resolution, one of
>>>> these is Network Browsing with multiple subnets.
>>>>
>>>> Unique NetBIOS names must be used with WINS in an Active Directory
>>>> forest
>>>> with Windows 2000 Server and Windows Server 2003:
>>>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927070/en-us
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Kevin D. Goodknecht Sr. [MVP]
>>>> Hope This Helps
>>>> Send IM: http://www.icq.com/people/webmsg.php?to=296095728
>>>> ===================================
>>>> When responding to posts, please "Reply to Group"
>>>> via your newsreader so that others may learn and
>>>> benefit from your issue, to respond directly to
>>>> me remove the nospam. from my email address.
>>>> ===================================
>>>> http://www.lonestaramerica.com/
>>>> http://support.wftx.us/
>>>> http://message.wftx.us/
>>>> ===================================
>>>> Use Outlook Express?... Get OE_Quotefix:
>>>> It will strip signature out and more
>>>> http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/
>>>> ===================================
>>>> Keep a back up of your OE settings and folders
>>>> with OEBackup:
>>>> http://www.oehelp.com/OEBackup/Default.aspx
>>>> ===================================
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>