Is Windows beating Linux behind a Linksys box?

Linksys cable/DSL routers are very popular ways
to connect a small network to the internet.

Apparently, there is no way to name the Linux
computers behind the box, because the box uses
dhcpc to give the computers ip addresses. Now
I suppose one could turn off dhcp on the Linksys
box and have the linux computer assign names.

But that is alot of work, certainly alot more work than
plug and play windows. But worse if your dhcp server
is down your whole network is down.

Am I missing something here?

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:18:39 GMT, tom <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Linksys cable/DSL routers are very popular ways
> to connect a small network to the internet.
>
> Apparently, there is no way to name the Linux
> computers behind the box, because the box uses
> dhcpc to give the computers ip addresses. Now
> I suppose one could turn off dhcp on the Linksys
> box and have the linux computer assign names.
>
> But that is alot of work, certainly alot more work than
> plug and play windows. But worse if your dhcp server
> is down your whole network is down.
>
> Am I missing something here?

There is nothing that says you HAVE TO use dhcp for a hardware
gateway/router. Most have the ability to set a limited dhcp range for
LAN, and you can use static IPs outside that range in same network. Or
dhcp can be entirely disabled. My Dlink 704 (now obsolete) can actually
dhcp assign static LAN IPs by MAC address.

There are ways to associate a particular name with a dhcp address
(probably involving Windows or samba), but I have not bothered to look
into that for only 3 Linux PC's at home.

At work were we have multiple subnets on one big private WAN (some via
VPN), our RH smtp server has a list of dummy names for all the dhcp IP's
in its /etc/hosts or DNS, but they are just used to avoid rDNS delays.
The factory PC's use Netware or remote offices use WINS to find any
non-static names on the company WAN.

--
David Efflandt - All spam ignored http://www.de-srv.com/

"tom" <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:

]Linksys cable/DSL routers are very popular ways
]to connect a small network to the internet.

]Apparently, there is no way to name the Linux
]computers behind the box, because the box uses
]dhcpc to give the computers ip addresses. Now

Fine. It could also give them names but they would change as the IP
changed. But why do you want names for them? They should not be
accessible from outside anyway.

]I suppose one could turn off dhcp on the Linksys
]box and have the linux computer assign names.

OK.


]But that is alot of work, certainly alot more work than
]plug and play windows. But worse if your dhcp server

You have the same problem with windows.

]is down your whole network is down.

You have the same problem with windows.


]Am I missing something here?

Don't use dhcp? Why are you using dhcp?

On 2004-04-22, Bill Unruh <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> ]Apparently, there is no way to name the Linux
> ]computers behind the box, because the box uses
> ]dhcpc to give the computers ip addresses. Now
>
> Fine. It could also give them names but they would change as the IP
> changed. But why do you want names for them?

Because names are easier to remember than ip addresses.

> They should not be accessible from outside anyway.

What's that got to do with whether the machines have names or
not?

> ]I suppose one could turn off dhcp on the Linksys
> ]box and have the linux computer assign names.
>
> OK.
>
> ]But that is alot of work, certainly alot more work than
> ]plug and play windows. But worse if your dhcp server
>
> You have the same problem with windows.

No, you don't.

Windows uses its own peer-to-peer name resolution protocol that
does't require a centralized server which knows the IP<->name
mapping. You can assign IP addresses at random, and still refer
to Windows machines by name (from other windows machines).

Traditionally, Unix won't work that way: it requires a DNS
server than knows the name<->IP mapping. If that mapping is
dynamically created by a dhcp server, then DNS doesn't work
right. I've always thought there ought to be a way to hook the
dhcp server and DNS server together so the DNS server can
update the name<->IP mapping dynamically, but I've never been
able to figure out how to do it.

> ]is down your whole network is down.
>
> You have the same problem with windows.

Doesn't windows have a "fall back" scheme where it just picks
an "unused" IP address and keeps going? Never thought it was a
good idea myself...

> ]Am I missing something here?
>
> Don't use dhcp? Why are you using dhcp?

The usual reasons, one presumes:

* Laptops/portable computers.

* Easy centralized administration of network configuration.

--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! I am a jelly donut. I
at am a jelly donut.
visi.com

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 18:15:24 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
> right. I've always thought there ought to be a way to hook the
> dhcp server and DNS server together so the DNS server can
> update the name<->IP mapping dynamically, but I've never been
> able to figure out how to do it.

It's not that difficult IMO using ISC's dhcpd and BIND. But on a small
scale, as I just posted in another thread, there's dnsmasq.
--
/dev/rob0 - preferred_email=i$((28*28+28))@softhome.net
or put "not-spam" or "/dev/rob0" in Subject header to reply

"/dev/rob0" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 18:15:24 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
> > right. I've always thought there ought to be a way to hook the
> > dhcp server and DNS server together so the DNS server can
> > update the name<->IP mapping dynamically, but I've never been
> > able to figure out how to do it.
>
> It's not that difficult IMO using ISC's dhcpd and BIND. But on a small
> scale, as I just posted in another thread, there's dnsmasq.
> --


What is ISC's dhcpd?

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:02:40 +0000, tom wrote:
> What is ISC's dhcpd?

ISC is Internet Software Consortium, http://www.isc.org/ , and among
the projects under their control are DHCP (both a client and a server
implementation of the DHCP protocol) and BIND (Berkeley Internet Name
Daemon). dhcpd refers to the DHCP server.

Most if not all major GNU/Linux distros include both projects. If you
were posting from a Linux machine I'd say you probably have both
already installed.
--
/dev/rob0 - preferred_email=i$((28*28+28))@softhome.net
or put "not-spam" or "/dev/rob0" in Subject header to reply

In article <Qgbjc.174$(E-Mail Removed)>,
"tom" <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
>
> What is ISC's dhcpd?

The most common DHCP server for Linux:

http://www.isc.org

As to the original problem of getting constant names for computers when
the IP addresses change because they're assigned by a broadband router's
DHCP server, another option is to use NetBIOS names. (This is the Windows
naming system to which Grant Edwards referred earlier.) Windows systems
will do this automatically, but for Linux, you need to edit
/etc/nsswitch.conf. Specifically, look for the hosts line:

hosts: files dns

This line may include other ways to resolve names. Whatever it contains,
you can add "wins" to the list of tools:

hosts: files dns wins

This tells the system to use NetBIOS names if it can't find a name in any
other way. If your Windows systems have file sharing enabled and if you
run Samba (or at least nmbd) on your Linux systems, you should then be
able to address your computers via their configured NetBIOS names. (In
the case of Linux systems, you may need to set the "netbios name"
parameter in smb.conf to register a name for the system.)

A couple of caveats: NetBIOS has no idea about DNS domain names. Thus, if
you use this system, some programs may choke because they won't be able
to determine their own domain names. This is pretty rare, in my
experience; the only program I've encountered that runs into issues
because of this is knews. Also, these programs would probably choke if
you don't use any other name resolution system, too. Another potential
problem is DNS/NetBIOS name confusion. If a system registers a particular
NetBIOS name, but if it's also known by another DNS hostname, or if
another system uses the same DNS hostname as the first system registers
via NetBIOS, you may run into problems because of these mismatches.

Overall and IMHO, using NetBIOS names can be a quick and simple solution
if all your systems already register NetBIOS names, particularly on small
networks when you don't want to invest time and effort into configuring
the ISC DHCP server and your own DNS server. Using static IP addresses
and /etc/hosts entries can also be a good approach in these cases,
though, and is less likely to cause problems related to the lack of DNS
domain names in the NetBIOS system. I haven't tried it, but the dnsmasq
program to which an earlier poster referred looks like a potentially good
solution, too.

--
Rod Smith, (E-Mail Removed)
http://www.rodsbooks.com
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
"/dev/rob0" <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:

[re: ISC's DHCP and DNS servers]

> Most if not all major GNU/Linux distros include both projects. If you
> were posting from a Linux machine I'd say you probably have both
> already installed.

Many (perhaps most) Linux distributions don't actually install these
servers unless you explicitly tell the system to install them when you
install the OS (or at some point thereafter). To be sure, they're on the
distribution media for most distributions, but they may not actually be
installed. Broadly speaking, distributions seem to be a bit more
circumspect today about what servers they install than was the case a few
years ago. I suspect this is a security issue; they don't want people
installing potential security holes (which all servers are) unless they
have a real need for them.

--
Rod Smith, (E-Mail Removed)
http://www.rodsbooks.com
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking

"Rod Smith" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:a9sj6c-(E-Mail Removed)...
> In article <Qgbjc.174$(E-Mail Removed)>,
> "tom" <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
> >
> > What is ISC's dhcpd?
>
> The most common DHCP server for Linux:
>
> http://www.isc.org
>
> As to the original problem of getting constant names for computers when
> the IP addresses change because they're assigned by a broadband router's
> DHCP server, another option is to use NetBIOS names. (This is the Windows
> naming system to which Grant Edwards referred earlier.) Windows systems
> will do this automatically, but for Linux, you need to edit
> /etc/nsswitch.conf. Specifically, look for the hosts line:
>
> hosts: files dns
>
> This line may include other ways to resolve names. Whatever it contains,
> you can add "wins" to the list of tools:
>
> hosts: files dns wins
>
> This tells the system to use NetBIOS names if it can't find a name in any
> other way. If your Windows systems have file sharing enabled and if you
> run Samba (or at least nmbd) on your Linux systems, you should then be
> able to address your computers via their configured NetBIOS names. (In
> the case of Linux systems, you may need to set the "netbios name"
> parameter in smb.conf to register a name for the system.)
>
> A couple of caveats: NetBIOS has no idea about DNS domain names. Thus, if
> you use this system, some programs may choke because they won't be able
> to determine their own domain names. This is pretty rare, in my
> experience; the only program I've encountered that runs into issues
> because of this is knews. Also, these programs would probably choke if
> you don't use any other name resolution system, too. Another potential
> problem is DNS/NetBIOS name confusion. If a system registers a particular
> NetBIOS name, but if it's also known by another DNS hostname, or if
> another system uses the same DNS hostname as the first system registers
> via NetBIOS, you may run into problems because of these mismatches.
>
> Overall and IMHO, using NetBIOS names can be a quick and simple solution
> if all your systems already register NetBIOS names, particularly on small
> networks when you don't want to invest time and effort into configuring
> the ISC DHCP server and your own DNS server. Using static IP addresses
> and /etc/hosts entries can also be a good approach in these cases,
> though, and is less likely to cause problems related to the lack of DNS
> domain names in the NetBIOS system. I haven't tried it, but the dnsmasq
> program to which an earlier poster referred looks like a potentially good
> solution, too.
>
I tried your solution and I cannot get it to work.

I have samba set up on two machines and it works
fine. I can use IE on the windows box, type
in LinuxMachineName in IE, and get the web site
on the Linux machine.

The problem I am having is communicating between
the two linux machines. I can only ping the other machine
using ip addresses. The two machines dont know
each other by name.