windows 98 pcs cannot sign on to the domain suddenly

yesterday we change our network setup, we originally had two cisco routers
doing a bridge to connect our main office and a 2nd site.
both sites on the same subnet.

we recently began adding many devices to the 2nd site, so many that we were
running out of IP addreses.

I had a win 2000 server on that site, so we setup the two cisco routers to
allow us to break off the 2nd site into another subnet and I setup the win
2000 server as a dhcp server for the second site, with the cisco router as
the gateway.

everything went smooth - EXCEPT:
i have several windows 98 PCs that simply cannot sign on to the domain now!

they get an IP address from their dhcp server, they can ping across the
gateway to the main site, but they cannot sign on to the domain. they can
get on the internet, but cannot sign onto the domain.

every single xp PC came up the first time without any problem.

I have checked DNS, WINS, everything I can think of on the 98 PCs but
everything seems to be setup correctly, yet they cant login to the domain.

can anybody point me in the right direction on this?

I know 98 isnt really meant for networking. I have been trying to convice
the higher ups to replace them, but their attitude is that they will replace
them when they are dead and buried. so I am kinda stuck with them for now.

any help would be appreciated .

gary

sounds like name resolution issue. can you ping the DC by NetBIOS name and FQND?

Bob Lin, MS-MVP, MCSE & CNE
Networking, Internet, Routing, VPN Troubleshooting on http://www.ChicagoTech.net
How to Setup Windows, Network, VPN & Remote Access on http://www.HowToNetworking.com
"gary" <garym_jacksonfurniture_dontspamme_@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
yesterday we change our network setup, we originally had two cisco routers
doing a bridge to connect our main office and a 2nd site.
both sites on the same subnet.

we recently began adding many devices to the 2nd site, so many that we were
running out of IP addreses.

I had a win 2000 server on that site, so we setup the two cisco routers to
allow us to break off the 2nd site into another subnet and I setup the win
2000 server as a dhcp server for the second site, with the cisco router as
the gateway.

everything went smooth - EXCEPT:
i have several windows 98 PCs that simply cannot sign on to the domain now!

they get an IP address from their dhcp server, they can ping across the
gateway to the main site, but they cannot sign on to the domain. they can
get on the internet, but cannot sign onto the domain.

every single xp PC came up the first time without any problem.

I have checked DNS, WINS, everything I can think of on the 98 PCs but
everything seems to be setup correctly, yet they cant login to the domain.

can anybody point me in the right direction on this?

I know 98 isnt really meant for networking. I have been trying to convice
the higher ups to replace them, but their attitude is that they will replace
them when they are dead and buried. so I am kinda stuck with them for now.

any help would be appreciated .

gary

you are right.

If I ping the local domain controller by name on one of the windows 98 PCs that are having problems it has it still associated with the OLD address.

but if I ping from an XP PC it gets replies and lists the CURRENT ip address.

I have verified that the DNS and WINS are the same on both XP and win 98, so why would there be a differance?

gary

"Robert L [MS-MVP]" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:ul$(E-Mail Removed)...
sounds like name resolution issue. can you ping the DC by NetBIOS name and FQND?

Bob Lin, MS-MVP, MCSE & CNE
Networking, Internet, Routing, VPN Troubleshooting on http://www.ChicagoTech.net
How to Setup Windows, Network, VPN & Remote Access on http://www.HowToNetworking.com
"gary" <garym_jacksonfurniture_dontspamme_@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
yesterday we change our network setup, we originally had two cisco routers
doing a bridge to connect our main office and a 2nd site.
both sites on the same subnet.

we recently began adding many devices to the 2nd site, so many that we were
running out of IP addreses.

I had a win 2000 server on that site, so we setup the two cisco routers to
allow us to break off the 2nd site into another subnet and I setup the win
2000 server as a dhcp server for the second site, with the cisco router as
the gateway.

everything went smooth - EXCEPT:
i have several windows 98 PCs that simply cannot sign on to the domain now!

they get an IP address from their dhcp server, they can ping across the
gateway to the main site, but they cannot sign on to the domain. they can
get on the internet, but cannot sign onto the domain.

every single xp PC came up the first time without any problem.

I have checked DNS, WINS, everything I can think of on the 98 PCs but
everything seems to be setup correctly, yet they cant login to the domain.

can anybody point me in the right direction on this?

I know 98 isnt really meant for networking. I have been trying to convice
the higher ups to replace them, but their attitude is that they will replace
them when they are dead and buried. so I am kinda stuck with them for now.

any help would be appreciated .

gary

Hey Gary,

Is there any settings in the 98 machine's host files? Also have you tried Start > Run > winipcfg.exe Use the option "Release All" then "Renew All". This should renew the WINS and DNS info like a /flushdns on more current Windows OSes.

Hope this helps,

--
Louis Vitiello Jr.
------------------------------
MCSE, MCSA, MCP, A+/N+
ERCP XP Pro / Net Concepts

"gary" <garym_jacksonfurniture_dontspamme_@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
you are right.

If I ping the local domain controller by name on one of the windows 98 PCs that are having problems it has it still associated with the OLD address.

but if I ping from an XP PC it gets replies and lists the CURRENT ip address.

I have verified that the DNS and WINS are the same on both XP and win 98, so why would there be a differance?

gary

"Robert L [MS-MVP]" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:ul$(E-Mail Removed)...
sounds like name resolution issue. can you ping the DC by NetBIOS name and FQND?

Bob Lin, MS-MVP, MCSE & CNE
Networking, Internet, Routing, VPN Troubleshooting on http://www.ChicagoTech.net
How to Setup Windows, Network, VPN & Remote Access on http://www.HowToNetworking.com
"gary" <garym_jacksonfurniture_dontspamme_@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
yesterday we change our network setup, we originally had two cisco routers
doing a bridge to connect our main office and a 2nd site.
both sites on the same subnet.

we recently began adding many devices to the 2nd site, so many that we were
running out of IP addreses.

I had a win 2000 server on that site, so we setup the two cisco routers to
allow us to break off the 2nd site into another subnet and I setup the win
2000 server as a dhcp server for the second site, with the cisco router as
the gateway.

everything went smooth - EXCEPT:
i have several windows 98 PCs that simply cannot sign on to the domain now!

they get an IP address from their dhcp server, they can ping across the
gateway to the main site, but they cannot sign on to the domain. they can
get on the internet, but cannot sign onto the domain.

every single xp PC came up the first time without any problem.

I have checked DNS, WINS, everything I can think of on the 98 PCs but
everything seems to be setup correctly, yet they cant login to the domain.

can anybody point me in the right direction on this?

I know 98 isnt really meant for networking. I have been trying to convice
the higher ups to replace them, but their attitude is that they will replace
them when they are dead and buried. so I am kinda stuck with them for now.

any help would be appreciated .

gary

W2k and later clients find a logon server through DNS. W98 finds a logon
server by using the Netbios name <domainname 1b> . If the client is not on
the same network as the server, it cannot get this name by broadcast. But it
should be able to get its IP from WINS.

Are all machines set up as WINS clients to the same WINS server? Does
the WINS server have an entry for <domainname 1b> ?

Louis Vitiello Jr. wrote:
> Hey Gary,
>
> Is there any settings in the 98 machine's host files? Also have you
> tried Start > Run > winipcfg.exe Use the option "Release All" then
> "Renew All". This should renew the WINS and DNS info like a /flushdns
> on more current Windows OSes.
>
> Hope this helps,

Addition to Bill comment, make sure no old computer records in the WINS server.

Bob Lin, MS-MVP, MCSE & CNE
Networking, Internet, Routing, VPN Troubleshooting on http://www.ChicagoTech.net
How to Setup Windows, Network, VPN & Remote Access on http://www.HowToNetworking.com
"Bill Grant" <not.available@online> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
W2k and later clients find a logon server through DNS. W98 finds a logon
server by using the Netbios name <domainname 1b> . If the client is not on
the same network as the server, it cannot get this name by broadcast. But it
should be able to get its IP from WINS.

Are all machines set up as WINS clients to the same WINS server? Does
the WINS server have an entry for <domainname 1b> ?

Louis Vitiello Jr. wrote:
> Hey Gary,
>
> Is there any settings in the 98 machine's host files? Also have you
> tried Start > Run > winipcfg.exe Use the option "Release All" then
> "Renew All". This should renew the WINS and DNS info like a /flushdns
> on more current Windows OSes.
>
> Hope this helps,

I'd like to add to Bill and Roberts comments. It is possible you could
have lmhosts files pointing towards the old server as well. Immediately
after trying to logon to the domain open a dos prompt and run nbtstat -c.
Verify the TTL is not 600 seconds or less and not -1. If it's -1 the name
is being pulled from the lmhosts file.


"Robert L [MS-MVP]" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:
Addition to Bill comment, make sure no old computer records in the WINS
server.

thanks for the tips guys.
You've given me something to work with on monday.

appreciate it.

gary


I hadnt thought of lmhosts files, had not fooled with those in years
"Michael Giorgio - MS MVP" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> I'd like to add to Bill and Roberts comments. It is possible you could
> have lmhosts files pointing towards the old server as well. Immediately
> after trying to logon to the domain open a dos prompt and run nbtstat -c.
> Verify the TTL is not 600 seconds or less and not -1. If it's -1 the name
> is being pulled from the lmhosts file.
>
>
> "Robert L [MS-MVP]" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:
> Addition to Bill comment, make sure no old computer records in the WINS
> server.
>
>

Windows 98 doesn't try for a new address on reboot if the old lease hasn't
expired so they may not be getting the proper settings from the DHCP server.
You may have to use winipcfg and explicitly release and renew the IP on the
win98 machines. Don't know if this can be done with a script in win98.

Just a guess. I haven't used win98 in a domain for a long time. I am
interested in your results. I'm going to be adding some win98 users to a SBS
domain next week, against my recommendation but the customer is always right
:-)

--
Kerry
MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User

gary wrote:
> yesterday we change our network setup, we originally had two cisco
> routers doing a bridge to connect our main office and a 2nd site.
> both sites on the same subnet.
>
> we recently began adding many devices to the 2nd site, so many that
> we were running out of IP addreses.
>
> I had a win 2000 server on that site, so we setup the two cisco
> routers to allow us to break off the 2nd site into another subnet and
> I setup the win 2000 server as a dhcp server for the second site,
> with the cisco router as the gateway.
>
> everything went smooth - EXCEPT:
> i have several windows 98 PCs that simply cannot sign on to the
> domain now!
> they get an IP address from their dhcp server, they can ping across
> the gateway to the main site, but they cannot sign on to the domain. they
> can get on the internet, but cannot sign onto the domain.
>
> every single xp PC came up the first time without any problem.
>
> I have checked DNS, WINS, everything I can think of on the 98 PCs but
> everything seems to be setup correctly, yet they cant login to the
> domain.
> can anybody point me in the right direction on this?
>
> I know 98 isnt really meant for networking. I have been trying to
> convice the higher ups to replace them, but their attitude is that
> they will replace them when they are dead and buried. so I am kinda
> stuck with them for now.
> any help would be appreciated .
>
> gary

I have two wins servers, one runs on an old NT 4.0 server, the other on win
2000 server.

the NT 4 server that was the first wins server I ever setup does have the
<domainname 1bh>, but the windows 2000 server does not.

the 2000 server is the one that is on the same subnet as the windows 98 PCs
that are having this problem.

is this missing entry the issue?


gary


"Bill Grant" <not.available@online> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> W2k and later clients find a logon server through DNS. W98 finds a
> logon server by using the Netbios name <domainname 1b> . If the client
> is not on the same network as the server, it cannot get this name by
> broadcast. But it should be able to get its IP from WINS.
>
> Are all machines set up as WINS clients to the same WINS server? Does
> the WINS server have an entry for <domainname 1b> ?
>
> Louis Vitiello Jr. wrote:
>> Hey Gary,
>>
>> Is there any settings in the 98 machine's host files? Also have you
>> tried Start > Run > winipcfg.exe Use the option "Release All" then
>> "Renew All". This should renew the WINS and DNS info like a /flushdns
>> on more current Windows OSes.
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>
>