Win98SE woes ... jut want to get web pages over LAN

I have been trying to help a senior citizen friend living in a basement apt.
get a computer he was given, working on the internet. So far no success.
Here's the situation:

Computer is some sort of Packard Bell PII Win98SE machine with video card,
sound card and modem. Never had a NIC before, but has a modem, and had Kazaa
and a bunch of other games and stuff that I have removed. Internet is going
to come in via a new SMC NIC that I have purchased for him.

Upstairs is some business belonging to friends of a friend. In the basement
is a wiring closet with a DLINK Broadband Wireless Router, a Linksys Switch
.... and some other telephony stuff on the wall. In the basement, near where
he has a table with the computer on it, there is a LAN plug near the
telephone jack and cable TV connector. The LAN is live, as my XP Pro laptop
gets web pages with no problem ...

He also has a fresh copy of Norton NAV 2005 that I *should* have installed
right off the bat, but wanted to get onto the internet first so as to
activate and update it, etc.

The SMC NIC has a CD that one is told to run first before putting in the
NIC. This was done. During reboot, Win98 found the NIC and asked for the
Win98SE CD. It began copying files ..BUT froze the whole system just when it
looked like it was going to finish copying and go to the next step. Several
attempts were made, but no joy ... same problem. I deleted all *.tmp files
and internet files, but no change. A call to SMC suggested trying the NIC
in another machine to narrow down the problem (i.e., if the NIC itself is
bad, take it back to the store). They suggested it might be a windows
problem.

I installed NAV 2005. It found a trojan during it's preliminary scan in DOS
mode. I left it running, asking my friend to tell me if it found anything
else. He later said if found 7 bad somethings (Files, viruses ... not
sure).

A couple of days pass ...

Meanwhile I check the SMC NIC in a WinXP machine and after running the CD
and putting in the NIC, WinXP, had no idea that said NIC existed !! I began
to suspect the NIC. Next time I visit him I take along a known good DLink
NIC.

First though, I put back in the SMC NIC and low and behold, it finishes
copying the needed files off the Win98SE CD ... does not freeze, passes GO
.... but does not collect the $200 ...

The NIC looks fine in Device Manager. But I cannot get web pages. I note
that the old Packard Bell takes a lot longer to boot up now. I figure it
must be due to NAV 2005 running on a 233 MHz machine !

I try various things like Release/Renew in winipcfg, numerous rebootings.
There is a Windows Networking Login window that always comes up at the
beginning (I hear TweakUI 1.33 will disable that pest?), and I always just
cancel the box ... that should not be a problem, right?

Release and renew does not get the same IP, and Subnet that my WinXP Pro
laptop shows in ipconfig. It shows some weird-ass values ... (maybe from the
days of running the modem ??).

By the way, trying to access the DLink Router by putting it's default
gateway into a browser window results in "access denied".

A more techy friend suggests turning DHCP off in the Win98 box and putting
in a 'similar" IP to the one that my XP machine is picking up (last digits
are made different), and giving it the same subnet and default gateway. Also
put in some DNS servers that ipconfig /all shows in my XP machine. Still no
joy. (Does the above approach: no DHCP, giving it a IP of my choosing ...
look legit?)

I try the DLink NIC ... it gives a carbon copy result ... same thing.

I have done a "remove" of each card in Device Manager and
re-discovery/install a couple of times to see if this would help.

Does it sound like (a) Win98SE is somehow hosed on the Crapard Bell ? (b)
normal networking teething problems for Win98SE ?

Thanks !

-RS-

Try Tip #3 at www.careyholzman.com/netfixes.htm

Carey

"RS" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>I have been trying to help a senior citizen friend living in a basement
>apt.
> get a computer he was given, working on the internet. So far no success.
> Here's the situation:
>
> Computer is some sort of Packard Bell PII Win98SE machine with video
> card,
> sound card and modem. Never had a NIC before, but has a modem, and had
> Kazaa
> and a bunch of other games and stuff that I have removed. Internet is
> going
> to come in via a new SMC NIC that I have purchased for him.
>
> Upstairs is some business belonging to friends of a friend. In the
> basement
> is a wiring closet with a DLINK Broadband Wireless Router, a Linksys
> Switch
> ... and some other telephony stuff on the wall. In the basement, near
> where
> he has a table with the computer on it, there is a LAN plug near the
> telephone jack and cable TV connector. The LAN is live, as my XP Pro
> laptop
> gets web pages with no problem ...
>
> He also has a fresh copy of Norton NAV 2005 that I *should* have installed
> right off the bat, but wanted to get onto the internet first so as to
> activate and update it, etc.
>
> The SMC NIC has a CD that one is told to run first before putting in the
> NIC. This was done. During reboot, Win98 found the NIC and asked for the
> Win98SE CD. It began copying files ..BUT froze the whole system just when
> it
> looked like it was going to finish copying and go to the next step.
> Several
> attempts were made, but no joy ... same problem. I deleted all *.tmp
> files
> and internet files, but no change. A call to SMC suggested trying the NIC
> in another machine to narrow down the problem (i.e., if the NIC itself is
> bad, take it back to the store). They suggested it might be a windows
> problem.
>
> I installed NAV 2005. It found a trojan during it's preliminary scan in
> DOS
> mode. I left it running, asking my friend to tell me if it found anything
> else. He later said if found 7 bad somethings (Files, viruses ... not
> sure).
>
> A couple of days pass ...
>
> Meanwhile I check the SMC NIC in a WinXP machine and after running the CD
> and putting in the NIC, WinXP, had no idea that said NIC existed !! I
> began
> to suspect the NIC. Next time I visit him I take along a known good DLink
> NIC.
>
> First though, I put back in the SMC NIC and low and behold, it finishes
> copying the needed files off the Win98SE CD ... does not freeze, passes GO
> ... but does not collect the $200 ...
>
> The NIC looks fine in Device Manager. But I cannot get web pages. I note
> that the old Packard Bell takes a lot longer to boot up now. I figure it
> must be due to NAV 2005 running on a 233 MHz machine !
>
> I try various things like Release/Renew in winipcfg, numerous rebootings.
> There is a Windows Networking Login window that always comes up at the
> beginning (I hear TweakUI 1.33 will disable that pest?), and I always just
> cancel the box ... that should not be a problem, right?
>
> Release and renew does not get the same IP, and Subnet that my WinXP Pro
> laptop shows in ipconfig. It shows some weird-ass values ... (maybe from
> the
> days of running the modem ??).
>
> By the way, trying to access the DLink Router by putting it's default
> gateway into a browser window results in "access denied".
>
> A more techy friend suggests turning DHCP off in the Win98 box and putting
> in a 'similar" IP to the one that my XP machine is picking up (last digits
> are made different), and giving it the same subnet and default gateway.
> Also
> put in some DNS servers that ipconfig /all shows in my XP machine. Still
> no
> joy. (Does the above approach: no DHCP, giving it a IP of my choosing ...
> look legit?)
>
> I try the DLink NIC ... it gives a carbon copy result ... same thing.
>
> I have done a "remove" of each card in Device Manager and
> re-discovery/install a couple of times to see if this would help.
>
> Does it sound like (a) Win98SE is somehow hosed on the Crapard Bell ? (b)
> normal networking teething problems for Win98SE ?
>
> Thanks !
>
> -RS-
>
>
>

Instead of clicking CANCEL at the logon prompt try entering a name (anything
will - no passsword required) and click OK

whats yer IP address exactly?

Regards
Sonny

bottom-posted:

"RS" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>I have been trying to help a senior citizen friend living in a basement
>apt.
> get a computer he was given, working on the internet. So far no success.
> Here's the situation:
>
> Computer is some sort of Packard Bell PII Win98SE machine with video
> card,
> sound card and modem. Never had a NIC before, but has a modem, and had
> Kazaa
> and a bunch of other games and stuff that I have removed. Internet is
> going
> to come in via a new SMC NIC that I have purchased for him.
>
> Upstairs is some business belonging to friends of a friend. In the
> basement
> is a wiring closet with a DLINK Broadband Wireless Router, a Linksys
> Switch
> ... and some other telephony stuff on the wall. In the basement, near
> where
> he has a table with the computer on it, there is a LAN plug near the
> telephone jack and cable TV connector. The LAN is live, as my XP Pro
> laptop
> gets web pages with no problem ...
>
> He also has a fresh copy of Norton NAV 2005 that I *should* have installed
> right off the bat, but wanted to get onto the internet first so as to
> activate and update it, etc.
>
> The SMC NIC has a CD that one is told to run first before putting in the
> NIC. This was done. During reboot, Win98 found the NIC and asked for the
> Win98SE CD. It began copying files ..BUT froze the whole system just when
> it
> looked like it was going to finish copying and go to the next step.
> Several
> attempts were made, but no joy ... same problem. I deleted all *.tmp
> files
> and internet files, but no change. A call to SMC suggested trying the NIC
> in another machine to narrow down the problem (i.e., if the NIC itself is
> bad, take it back to the store). They suggested it might be a windows
> problem.
>
> I installed NAV 2005. It found a trojan during it's preliminary scan in
> DOS
> mode. I left it running, asking my friend to tell me if it found anything
> else. He later said if found 7 bad somethings (Files, viruses ... not
> sure).
>
> A couple of days pass ...
>
> Meanwhile I check the SMC NIC in a WinXP machine and after running the CD
> and putting in the NIC, WinXP, had no idea that said NIC existed !! I
> began
> to suspect the NIC. Next time I visit him I take along a known good DLink
> NIC.
>
> First though, I put back in the SMC NIC and low and behold, it finishes
> copying the needed files off the Win98SE CD ... does not freeze, passes GO
> ... but does not collect the $200 ...
>
> The NIC looks fine in Device Manager. But I cannot get web pages. I note
> that the old Packard Bell takes a lot longer to boot up now. I figure it
> must be due to NAV 2005 running on a 233 MHz machine !
>
> I try various things like Release/Renew in winipcfg, numerous rebootings.
> There is a Windows Networking Login window that always comes up at the
> beginning (I hear TweakUI 1.33 will disable that pest?), and I always just
> cancel the box ... that should not be a problem, right?
>
> Release and renew does not get the same IP, and Subnet that my WinXP Pro
> laptop shows in ipconfig. It shows some weird-ass values ... (maybe from
> the
> days of running the modem ??).
>
> By the way, trying to access the DLink Router by putting it's default
> gateway into a browser window results in "access denied".
>
> A more techy friend suggests turning DHCP off in the Win98 box and putting
> in a 'similar" IP to the one that my XP machine is picking up (last digits
> are made different), and giving it the same subnet and default gateway.
> Also
> put in some DNS servers that ipconfig /all shows in my XP machine. Still
> no
> joy. (Does the above approach: no DHCP, giving it a IP of my choosing ...
> look legit?)
>
> I try the DLink NIC ... it gives a carbon copy result ... same thing.
>
> I have done a "remove" of each card in Device Manager and
> re-discovery/install a couple of times to see if this would help.
>
> Does it sound like (a) Win98SE is somehow hosed on the Crapard Bell ? (b)
> normal networking teething problems for Win98SE ?
>
> Thanks !
>
> -RS-

I have found that when you have "period" PC, it is sometimes better to equip
it with "period" peripherals of the same period. For example, if you choose
to return the "new" DLink NIC, replace it with an older model NIC from eBay.
I bet your DLink NIC is a PCI card, and is "Plug & Pray" compatible. The
drivers might be expecting a more modern platform??? If you've got an ISA
slot, maybe an old ISA NIC card would actually work better - assuming you
could find the original drivers!

Your Win98Se doesn't sound particularly stable. Do you have the stuff to
re-install it from scratch? That's a lot of work, but often clears up
problems cause by years of downloading spyware, installing and un-installing
strange and unusual software. You know what I mean!

Carey Holtzman's page has a lot of good tips in addition to #3!

Lastly, estimate the value of your time and see if it exceeds the value of a
$499 brand new PC from Dell!!

bottom post


"Moshup Trail" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> bottom-posted:
>
> "RS" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>I have been trying to help a senior citizen friend living in a basement
>>apt.
>> get a computer he was given, working on the internet. So far no success.
>> Here's the situation:
>>
>> Computer is some sort of Packard Bell PII Win98SE machine with video
>> card,
>> sound card and modem. Never had a NIC before, but has a modem, and had
>> Kazaa
>> and a bunch of other games and stuff that I have removed. Internet is
>> going
>> to come in via a new SMC NIC that I have purchased for him.
>>
>> Upstairs is some business belonging to friends of a friend. In the
>> basement
>> is a wiring closet with a DLINK Broadband Wireless Router, a Linksys
>> Switch
>> ... and some other telephony stuff on the wall. In the basement, near
>> where
>> he has a table with the computer on it, there is a LAN plug near the
>> telephone jack and cable TV connector. The LAN is live, as my XP Pro
>> laptop
>> gets web pages with no problem ...
>>
>> He also has a fresh copy of Norton NAV 2005 that I *should* have
>> installed
>> right off the bat, but wanted to get onto the internet first so as to
>> activate and update it, etc.
>>
>> The SMC NIC has a CD that one is told to run first before putting in the
>> NIC. This was done. During reboot, Win98 found the NIC and asked for the
>> Win98SE CD. It began copying files ..BUT froze the whole system just when
>> it
>> looked like it was going to finish copying and go to the next step.
>> Several
>> attempts were made, but no joy ... same problem. I deleted all *.tmp
>> files
>> and internet files, but no change. A call to SMC suggested trying the
>> NIC
>> in another machine to narrow down the problem (i.e., if the NIC itself is
>> bad, take it back to the store). They suggested it might be a windows
>> problem.
>>
>> I installed NAV 2005. It found a trojan during it's preliminary scan in
>> DOS
>> mode. I left it running, asking my friend to tell me if it found anything
>> else. He later said if found 7 bad somethings (Files, viruses ... not
>> sure).
>>
>> A couple of days pass ...
>>
>> Meanwhile I check the SMC NIC in a WinXP machine and after running the CD
>> and putting in the NIC, WinXP, had no idea that said NIC existed !! I
>> began
>> to suspect the NIC. Next time I visit him I take along a known good
>> DLink
>> NIC.
>>
>> First though, I put back in the SMC NIC and low and behold, it finishes
>> copying the needed files off the Win98SE CD ... does not freeze, passes
>> GO
>> ... but does not collect the $200 ...
>>
>> The NIC looks fine in Device Manager. But I cannot get web pages. I note
>> that the old Packard Bell takes a lot longer to boot up now. I figure it
>> must be due to NAV 2005 running on a 233 MHz machine !
>>
>> I try various things like Release/Renew in winipcfg, numerous rebootings.
>> There is a Windows Networking Login window that always comes up at the
>> beginning (I hear TweakUI 1.33 will disable that pest?), and I always
>> just
>> cancel the box ... that should not be a problem, right?
>>
>> Release and renew does not get the same IP, and Subnet that my WinXP Pro
>> laptop shows in ipconfig. It shows some weird-ass values ... (maybe from
>> the
>> days of running the modem ??).
>>
>> By the way, trying to access the DLink Router by putting it's default
>> gateway into a browser window results in "access denied".
>>
>> A more techy friend suggests turning DHCP off in the Win98 box and
>> putting
>> in a 'similar" IP to the one that my XP machine is picking up (last
>> digits
>> are made different), and giving it the same subnet and default gateway.
>> Also
>> put in some DNS servers that ipconfig /all shows in my XP machine. Still
>> no
>> joy. (Does the above approach: no DHCP, giving it a IP of my choosing ...
>> look legit?)
>>
>> I try the DLink NIC ... it gives a carbon copy result ... same thing.
>>
>> I have done a "remove" of each card in Device Manager and
>> re-discovery/install a couple of times to see if this would help.
>>
>> Does it sound like (a) Win98SE is somehow hosed on the Crapard Bell ? (b)
>> normal networking teething problems for Win98SE ?
>>
>> Thanks !
>>
>> -RS-
>
> I have found that when you have "period" PC, it is sometimes better to
> equip it with "period" peripherals of the same period. For example, if
> you choose to return the "new" DLink NIC, replace it with an older model
> NIC from eBay. I bet your DLink NIC is a PCI card, and is "Plug & Pray"
> compatible. The drivers might be expecting a more modern platform??? If
> you've got an ISA slot, maybe an old ISA NIC card would actually work
> better - assuming you could find the original drivers!
>
> Your Win98Se doesn't sound particularly stable. Do you have the stuff to
> re-install it from scratch? That's a lot of work, but often clears up
> problems cause by years of downloading spyware, installing and
> un-installing strange and unusual software. You know what I mean!
>
> Carey Holtzman's page has a lot of good tips in addition to #3!
>
> Lastly, estimate the value of your time and see if it exceeds the value of
> a $499 brand new PC from Dell!!
>
>

ok ...i got part way thru reading this when i saw this

/snip
I try various things like Release/Renew in winipcfg, numerous rebootings.
>> There is a Windows Networking Login window that always comes up at the
>> beginning (I hear TweakUI 1.33 will disable that pest?), and I always
>> just
>> cancel the box ... that should not be a problem, right
snip/

if you cancel the logon to microsoft networks ( you network client), you
will not connect to the internet....

(if using tweakui , you can make it logon automatically)

In article <#(E-Mail Removed)>, "Haggis"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>ok ...i got part way thru reading this when i saw this
>
>/snip
>I try various things like Release/Renew in winipcfg, numerous rebootings.
>>> There is a Windows Networking Login window that always comes up at the
>>> beginning (I hear TweakUI 1.33 will disable that pest?), and I always
>>> just
>>> cancel the box ... that should not be a problem, right
>snip/
>
>if you cancel the logon to microsoft networks ( you network client), you
>will not connect to the internet....
>
>(if using tweakui , you can make it logon automatically)

That's not how it works in my experience. You can't access other
computers on a local area network if you cancel the login, but
Internet access works fine.
--
Best Wishes,
Steve Winograd, MS-MVP (Windows Networking)

Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group
for everyone to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions
addressed directly to me in E-mail or news groups.

Microsoft Most Valuable Professional - Windows Networking
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com

Steve Winograd's Networking FAQ
http://www.bcmaven.com/networking/faq.htm

/snip
>>
>>if you cancel the logon to microsoft networks ( you network client), you
>>will not connect to the internet....
>>
>>(if using tweakui , you can make it logon automatically)

ah geez , now you made me think Steve :>

and yes , you are quite correct (me bad)

thks :>



>
> That's not how it works in my experience. You can't access other
> computers on a local area network if you cancel the login, but
> Internet access works fine.
> --
> Best Wishes,
> Steve Winograd, MS-MVP (Windows Networking)
>
> Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group
> for everyone to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions
> addressed directly to me in E-mail or news groups.
>
> Microsoft Most Valuable Professional - Windows Networking
> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
>
> Steve Winograd's Networking FAQ
> http://www.bcmaven.com/networking/faq.htm

"Steve Winograd [MVP]" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> In article <#(E-Mail Removed)>, "Haggis"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>ok ...i got part way thru reading this when i saw this
>>
>>/snip
>>I try various things like Release/Renew in winipcfg, numerous rebootings.
>>>> There is a Windows Networking Login window that always comes up at the
>>>> beginning (I hear TweakUI 1.33 will disable that pest?), and I always
>>>> just
>>>> cancel the box ... that should not be a problem, right
>>snip/
>>
>>if you cancel the logon to microsoft networks ( you network client), you
>>will not connect to the internet....
>>
>>(if using tweakui , you can make it logon automatically)
>
> That's not how it works in my experience. You can't access other
> computers on a local area network if you cancel the login, but
> Internet access works fine.
> --
> Best Wishes,
> Steve Winograd, MS-MVP (Windows Networking)
>
> Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group
> for everyone to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions
> addressed directly to me in E-mail or news groups.
>
> Microsoft Most Valuable Professional - Windows Networking
> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
>
> Steve Winograd's Networking FAQ
> http://www.bcmaven.com/networking/faq.htm


oh yes ...have you tried a different PCI slot ?

Thanks to all so far ....

Someone has tried the "cancel network logon box" for me on their Win98SE
machine ... and they still got web pages ... as most of you have indicated
should happen.

This is a PII machine, after all ... not some PI or older. I find it hard to
beleive it would not find the (particularly) DLink NIC, which Device Manager
thinks is all hunky dory ....

Why try a different PCI slot when Device Manager is thus all satisfied with
this perfectly good NIC ??

It points to at least Winsock being hosed ... and when I visit my friend and
his computer I will try that "Tip #3" thing in an earlier post (link to
downloadable tools to analyze the health of Winsock).

-Ron-

"Haggis" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> "Steve Winograd [MVP]" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > In article <#(E-Mail Removed)>, "Haggis"
> > <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >>ok ...i got part way thru reading this when i saw this
> >>
> >>/snip
> >>I try various things like Release/Renew in winipcfg, numerous
rebootings.
> >>>> There is a Windows Networking Login window that always comes up at
the
> >>>> beginning (I hear TweakUI 1.33 will disable that pest?), and I always
> >>>> just
> >>>> cancel the box ... that should not be a problem, right
> >>snip/
> >>
> >>if you cancel the logon to microsoft networks ( you network client), you
> >>will not connect to the internet....
> >>
> >>(if using tweakui , you can make it logon automatically)
> >
> > That's not how it works in my experience. You can't access other
> > computers on a local area network if you cancel the login, but
> > Internet access works fine.
> > --
> > Best Wishes,
> > Steve Winograd, MS-MVP (Windows Networking)
> >
> > Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group
> > for everyone to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions
> > addressed directly to me in E-mail or news groups.
> >
> > Microsoft Most Valuable Professional - Windows Networking
> > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
> >
> > Steve Winograd's Networking FAQ
> > http://www.bcmaven.com/networking/faq.htm
>
>
> oh yes ...have you tried a different PCI slot ?
>
>