Win98SE: wifi connects to router but not to internet (2 diff. mfgr.cards), troubleshoot how?

I've had the same problem with two wifi cards, one Netgear and one
LinkSys. Both cards can find the router but neither card can connect to
the internet. This happens at my local library and where I work. I used
to be able to connect but installed some programs and several windows
updates (taking advantage of the high speed) and now I can't get through
to the Internet.

How would I go about diagnosing this problem? Any suggestions?

TIA,
Mike

mscir <(E-Mail Removed)> hath wroth:

>I've had the same problem with two wifi cards, one Netgear and one
>LinkSys. Both cards can find the router but neither card can connect to
>the internet. This happens at my local library and where I work. I used
>to be able to connect but installed some programs and several windows
>updates (taking advantage of the high speed) and now I can't get through
>to the Internet.
>
>How would I go about diagnosing this problem? Any suggestions?

I'll assume you're using Windoze XP Home as Windoze users never like
to admit that they're using a Microsoft product.

Try:
http://www.snapfiles.com/get/winsockxpfix.html
A trashed Winsock or LSP stack is common after removing a worm or
spyware. This returns it back to the default. Programs that add
themselves to the LSP such as Google Desktop Search will need to be
reinstalled. Before installing this, be sure to create a restore
point with:
Start -> programs -> Accessories -> Systems Tools -> System Restore
so that you can put it back where it was if something screws up.

--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

mscir <(E-Mail Removed)> hath wroth:

>I've had the same problem with two wifi cards, one Netgear and one
>LinkSys. Both cards can find the router but neither card can connect to
>the internet. This happens at my local library and where I work. I used
>to be able to connect but installed some programs and several windows
>updates (taking advantage of the high speed) and now I can't get through
>to the Internet.
>
>How would I go about diagnosing this problem? Any suggestions?

Ignore my other posting. I didn't see the Win98SE in the Subject
line. (Hint: Include any useful info in the body as I have my news
reader set to not display all the header junk).

The XP Winsock fix I posted won't work with Win98SE. There are
similar tools for Win98SE for editing the LSP.
http://www.cexx.org/lspfix.htm

For testing, first try to connect to any wireless network other than
the library and your work. A coffee shop with internet access is
fine. Even a for pay one that displays a splash screen will work. The
idea is to see if there's anything unique about the library or the
office wireless.

Next, try conencting with an ethernet CAT5 cable into the office LAN.
The library probably won't let you plug in. If you have a home
router, try that also. If that works, then there's nothing wrong with
your IP stack and whatever is happening is probably a wireless
configuration issue.

If wired works, but wireless does not, then check that:
1. You do NOT have a fixed IP address plugged into the wireless
settings.
Control Panel -> Network ->
Rigth click on the Wireless Icon. Select TCP/IP properties. Make
sure it says to have the IP address assigned by the ISP. Same with
the DNS servers. Nothing should be filled in for the Gateway. If
you've made changes, reboot and try again.

2. Check if you're getting a valid IP address from the library or
office.
Start -> Run -> command <enter>
and run:
IPCONFIG
I don't know how you're library or office is configured so I can't
tell you exactly what to expect. If it's 0.0.0.0 wait a little while
longer. If it's 169.254.xxx.xxx, the DHCP server failed to deliver an
IP address. If you're trying this at the office, you *MAY* get the
same IP address range with wired as you do wireless. Check the wired
settings and see if they're similar.

3. If you get 169.254.xxx.xxx, then there's something wrong with your
wireless client setup. Having two wireless drivers installed on
Win98SE is not a great idea. Win98SE is limited to no more than 4
network devices. Pick one of your unspecified Netgear or Linksys
devices (they do have model numbers) and uninstall the other driver.
One at a time please. Use whatever utility they have to do a site
survey. If you have saved profiles, then ignore or rebuild them. In
other words, pretend it's a new installation and search for a
connection. It is sees some access points, it's gonna work. If the
site survey tool sees nothing, then the board is broken. Uninstall
the driver and start over with the other card.

That should do for now.

--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

<snip>

Thanks very much for all of the information and links Jeff. I'll include
relevant information in the body of the messages from now on, that's
very good advice, apologies.

I uninstalled a lot of software, ran the fixes you gave me links to,
cleaned the registry with 3 cleaners, reinstalled TCP/IP, and now even
though the s/w that talks with the wifi card says there's no internet
connection, the browsers can get through to the internet!

At this point I don't know if it's a Windows configuration problem or if
it's a bad m/b or pcmcia slot. As long as it keeps working I don't care.

Thanks again for the very informative post.
Mike

On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 16:53:22 -0800, mscir <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

Could I trouble you to disclose the model number of which PCMCIA cards
you're using? Also any hardware and software versions?

Incidentally, I asked a few questions in my previous posting. You
didn't answer any of them. What you've done so far is of less
interest than the results of some basic diagnostics. I'll try to be a
bit more systematic this time. Try the following *IN ORDER GIVEN* and
please disclose the results.

>I uninstalled a lot of software, ran the fixes you gave me links to,
>cleaned the registry with 3 cleaners, reinstalled TCP/IP, and now even
>though the s/w that talks with the wifi card says there's no internet
>connection, the browsers can get through to the internet!

Slow down. TCP/IP is built in layers. The browser is at the very top
layer and has to have everything underneath working before it can
function. Let's start at the *BOTTOM* layer and work upwards.

1. Is the card being recognized by Windoze 98SE? Try:
Control Panel -> System -> List of devices?
Do you see any yellow or red alerts? Any "unknown devices"? Do you
see the wireless card list with properties showing that it's
functional?

2. MAC layer requires the client software that came with the card to
find the card. That will usually show up as an icon in the system
tray (lower right). Is there such an icon? When you double click it,
it should startup the wireless config program. Does the program
recognize the card? Can you configure it with this program?

3. It takes two to tango. The wireless utility should have a "site
survey" or "access point discovery" feature. Do you see any other
access points?

4. The MAC layer also deals with encryption. You have not specified
whether the device uses encryption or what type. I suspect that the
library system does not. Is that the way you have it setup? Check
the log or status output from the wireless utility. Any errors in
encryption or authentication?

5. If you think you have the MAC layer working, we can blunder onward
to the IP layer. The IP address should be delivered by DHCP from the
access point. Run:
IPCONFIG
If the IP address is 169.254.xxx.xxx, it's not working. Run:
IPCONFIG /RELEASE
(wait about 10 seconds)
IPCONFIG /RENEW
IPCONFIG
If it hangs or returns 169.254.xxx.xxx after about 60 seconds,
something is seriously broken at the IP layer. I'm not sure what to
do if that happens. Probably reinstall TCP/IP. Do NOT do this unless
you've tried everything else first:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q181599/
It often makes things worse instead of better.

6. Once you have a valid IP address, the rest should be easy. Try
pinging something like:
ping www.yahoo.com
If that does NOT work, try it by IP address.
ping 66.94.240.47
If it works by IP address but not by name, then we have some kind of
DNS client problem. Time to reinstall TCP/IP.

I can go on but this should be a good start.



--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558 (E-Mail Removed)
# http://802.11junk.com (E-Mail Removed)
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

mscir <(E-Mail Removed)> hath wroth:

>I uninstalled a lot of software, ran the fixes you gave me links to,
>cleaned the registry with 3 cleaners, reinstalled TCP/IP, and now even
>though the s/w that talks with the wifi card says there's no internet
>connection, the browsers can get through to the internet!

After writing all that troubleshooting info, I then re-read your
comments in the morning and find that you already have it working.
Sorry. Maybe I need a vacation (or remedial reading lessons).

--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 16:53:22 -0800, mscir <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> Could I trouble you to disclose the model number of which PCMCIA cards
> you're using? Also any hardware and software versions?
>
> 1. Is the card being recognized by Windoze 98SE? Try:
> Control Panel -> System -> List of devices?
> Do you see any yellow or red alerts? Any "unknown devices"? Do you
> see the wireless card list with properties showing that it's
> functional?
>
> 2. MAC layer requires the client software that came with the card to
> find the card. That will usually show up as an icon in the system
> tray (lower right). Is there such an icon? When you double click it,
> it should startup the wireless config program. Does the program
> recognize the card? Can you configure it with this program?
>
> 3. It takes two to tango. The wireless utility should have a "site
> survey" or "access point discovery" feature. Do you see any other
> access points?
>
> 4. The MAC layer also deals with encryption. You have not specified
> whether the device uses encryption or what type. I suspect that the
> library system does not. Is that the way you have it setup? Check
> the log or status output from the wireless utility. Any errors in
> encryption or authentication?
>
> 5. If you think you have the MAC layer working, we can blunder onward
> to the IP layer. The IP address should be delivered by DHCP from the
> access point. Run:
> IPCONFIG
> If the IP address is 169.254.xxx.xxx, it's not working. Run:
> IPCONFIG /RELEASE
> (wait about 10 seconds)
> IPCONFIG /RENEW
> IPCONFIG
> If it hangs or returns 169.254.xxx.xxx after about 60 seconds,
> something is seriously broken at the IP layer. I'm not sure what to
> do if that happens. Probably reinstall TCP/IP. Do NOT do this unless
> you've tried everything else first:
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q181599/
> It often makes things worse instead of better.
>
> 6. Once you have a valid IP address, the rest should be easy. Try
> pinging something like:
> ping www.yahoo.com
> If that does NOT work, try it by IP address.
> ping 66.94.240.47
> If it works by IP address but not by name, then we have some kind of
> DNS client problem. Time to reinstall TCP/IP.
>
> I can go on but this should be a good start.

Hi Jeff,

I'm very happy to work on this issue with you, as long as your patience
holds out - and learn as much as I can.

To answer your questions:

> 1. Do you see any yellow or red alerts?
NO

> 2. Is there such an icon?
YES, it brings up the program and the program is 100% functional.

> 3. Do you see any other access points?
YES, I can do a site survery (showing all of the wireless networks the
antenna can detect) and for example, at a local coffee shop I see 5
networks.

> 4. The MAC layer also deals with encryption. Any errors in encryption
> or authentication?
I can detect both encrypted and un-encrypted networks, and I have
connected with the un-encrpyted networks in the Library and at my
workplace. I tried connecting to an encrypted network from the coffee
shop and entered a gibberish passphrase, the site refused to let me
connect, which was the correct behavior. This never happens at my
workplace or at the Library, so I don't think there are any errors.

> 5. IPCONFIG /RELEASE (wait about 10 seconds) IPCONFIG /RENEW
The network was down at the Library this morning so I couldn't test the
IPCONFIG /RELEASE, IPCONFIG /RENEW, I'll do this at work tonight.

> 6. Once you have a valid IP address... Try pinging... yahoo.com
I'll try that tonight too.

Thanks very much for your help, I'm taking notes.

Here are the specs you asked for:

Windows 98 SE

Linksys WPC55AG Dual-Band Wireless A+G Notebook Adapter
Hardware version: 001
Device Status: This Device is working properly
Disable in this hardware profile is unchecked
Exists in all hardware profiles is checked
Use automatic (memory) settings is checked
Conflicting device list: No conflicts.

PCMCIA Socket
Texas Instruments
Hardware version: 000
Texas Instruments PCI-1211 Cardbus Controller
Device Status: This Device is working properly
Disable in this hardware profile is unchecked
Exists in all hardware profiles is checked
Use automatic (memory) settings is checked
Conflicting device list: No conflicts.

Adapter Software
WLAN Monitor version 1.2
WPC55AG Utility with CCX & WPA
Version 1.2.5.2

On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 11:47:30 -0800, mscir <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>I'm very happy to work on this issue with you, as long as your patience
>holds out - and learn as much as I can.

My patience is find but I think I'm catching a cold or flu. Standard
recovery proceedure is to hibernate for a few days.

You might wanna look at the CNET review on the WPC55AG card.
http://reviews-zdnet.com.com/Linksys...-21128291.html
The last user comment is rather interesting.
"Tryed it on 2 my note books win98 & xp. Got verry poor range on
both a & b networks. Had issues on my win98 notbook with it
corupting my winsock when it could not find a conneciton. Would
not recomend to anyone."

Hint: Ignore any negative comments that don't supply details on why
they don't like the product.


> > 3. Do you see any other access points?
>YES, I can do a site survery (showing all of the wireless networks the
>antenna can detect) and for example, at a local coffee shop I see 5
>networks.

OK. Then the card and driver are deemed working.

>I can detect both encrypted and un-encrypted networks, and I have
>connected with the un-encrpyted networks in the Library and at my
>workplace.

You really shouldn't run an unencrypted network at the office.

>I tried connecting to an encrypted network from the coffee
>shop and entered a gibberish passphrase, the site refused to let me
>connect, which was the correct behavior. This never happens at my
>workplace or at the Library, so I don't think there are any errors.

That's perfectly normal. No problem.

>Here are the specs you asked for:
>
>Windows 98 SE
>
>Linksys WPC55AG Dual-Band Wireless A+G Notebook Adapter
>Hardware version: 001

There are apparently two hardware versions of this card. V1 and v1.1.
I'll *GUESS* that you have V1. The latest drivers 2.4.2.33 at:
| http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satel...=1121874578155
Is this what you're using? My guess(tm) is that the lack of a
connection indication is cureable with a driver update.

>Adapter Software
>WLAN Monitor version 1.2
>WPC55AG Utility with CCX & WPA
>Version 1.2.5.2

Hmmm, that version number doesn't match the number series from the
WPC55AG v1 drivers. To make matters worse, the WPC55AG v1.1 page at:
| http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satel...=1115416827328
returns nothing available to download for all items, so I can't look
at the version history to see if you have the latest version.

Are you sure you have the correct and latest version?

Other than that, everything apparently works except the connection
indication. That has to be the driver.

Sorry for my screwups. I'll take more time to read the posting before
I answer in the future.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558 (E-Mail Removed)
# http://802.11junk.com (E-Mail Removed)
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 11:47:30 -0800, mscir <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>I'm very happy to work on this issue with you, as long as your patience
>>holds out - and learn as much as I can.
>
> My patience is find but I think I'm catching a cold or flu. Standard
> recovery proceedure is to hibernate for a few days.

Sorry to hear about your flu, I wish you a speedy recovery!

Your checklist led directly to a solution, thank you Very Much!

Attempting to do some pings as you suggested, I kept getting error
10050. Researching this with google, I found the following discussion:

http://discussions.virtualdr.com/sho...hreadid=177436

in which the author had disabled ZoneAlarm but was having a similar
problem, then found that uninstalling ZoneAlarm fixed the problem.

I had ZoneAlarm installed but had removed it from the list of programs
that run when the computer starts, so it was NOT running and never had
been after the most recent boot, yet it was still blocking the card from
connecting to the internet!

I tried to uninstall ZoneAlarm after trying to connect with the wifi
s/w, but the ZoneAlarm uninstaller wouldn't let me, saying a program was
using its TrueVector component! Neither ZoneAlarm nor TrueVector were
listed in the Task List, and even after I stopped everything but
Explorer and Systray the uninstall refused to proceed!

I rebooted, didn't start the wifi s/w, and the ZoneAlarm uninstaller
completed without incident... then the wifi card connected to the
internet immediately!

Thanks Again for your patience and thoroughness, I seriously doubt I
would have been able to track this down if it hadn't been for your
checklist.

Good Luck with your flu,
Mike

mscir <(E-Mail Removed)> hath wroth:

>Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>Sorry to hear about your flu, I wish you a speedy recovery!

I'm not sure it's a cold, flu, allergic reaction, or my bad attitude.
12 hours later, I'm starting to feel normal again. My guess(tm) of
the moment is that something bit me and that was an allergic reaction.
I'll live although my brain feels like mush from the antihistamines.

>Your checklist led directly to a solution, thank you Very Much!

That's what I try to do. I try to think "what would cause this
problem" and list the possible culprits.

>Attempting to do some pings as you suggested, I kept getting error
>10050. Researching this with google, I found the following discussion:
>http://discussions.virtualdr.com/sho...hreadid=177436

Ahah! Like this?
http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;298100

>I had ZoneAlarm installed but had removed it from the list of programs
>that run when the computer starts, so it was NOT running and never had
>been after the most recent boot, yet it was still blocking the card from
>connecting to the internet!

Yep, I've seen this. It happened to me also. I use Startup Inspector
for Windoze to control what starts and clean out what's not suppose to
be there:
http://www.WindowsStartup.com
MSCONFIG on XP is almost impossible to use effectively because MS
didn't allow resizing the window. Incidentally, there are others that
do the same thing. They simply do not do a clean uninstall. I've
seen in with ZoneAlarm, Avast, Norton Systemworks 2004, McAfee
firewall, and Black Ice Defender. Some of these vendors offer
registry cleanup tools to help vaporize anything they leave behind.
Norton has something like 5 different tools to clean up their mess.

>I tried to uninstall ZoneAlarm after trying to connect with the wifi
>s/w, but the ZoneAlarm uninstaller wouldn't let me, saying a program was
>using its TrueVector component! Neither ZoneAlarm nor TrueVector were
>listed in the Task List, and even after I stopped everything but
>Explorer and Systray the uninstall refused to proceed!

Lovely.

>I rebooted, didn't start the wifi s/w, and the ZoneAlarm uninstaller
>completed without incident... then the wifi card connected to the
>internet immediately!

Bingo. I think you still have some junk left behind. Use MSCONFIG or
Startup Inspector for Windoze to see if there's anything belonging to
ZoneAlarm in the run list.

Before I forget, also create a "retore point" before doing anything
involving installs and removals so you can recover gracefully from
mistakes.
Start -> Programs -> Accessories -> Systems Tools -> System Restore

>Thanks Again for your patience and thoroughness, I seriously doubt I
>would have been able to track this down if it hadn't been for your
>checklist.

Y'er welcome. Glad to be of help.

--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558