Win98 computer cannot be seen on a network by XP and Vista Computers - PLEASE HELP!

Hi,

I am trying to network four computers together in my home. I have a D-Link
Router providing wireless for one of the computers (a laptop). In the four
computers, there is two ones running Vista, one running XP (the laptop), and
one running 98. So far the vista and xp computers can see each other and
access each others files. The computer running 98 cannot see the others. The
others also cannot see the 98 computer. The D-Link router shares a DSL
internet connection and the 98 computer can access the internet. At first,
NEBEUI was not installed. After install, same trouble. I was thinking it
might be the McAfee firewalls running on the Vista and XP computers (The
firewall could not be installed on Win98). Does another protocol need to be
installed?

I would like to know some answers. One of the vista computers was bought to
replace the one with 98 and I would like to transfer my files.

Ian Glen
(E-Mail Removed)

Additional Information:

-All computers connected by Ethernet

-Computers cannot be access 98 computer by \\192.168.0.108 or \\Sony

-All computers can ping the 98 computer successfully

-98 computer can be detected by using IP scanning software, but no Computer
Name or MAC Address can be found

-If 98 computer runs Personal Server Software, other computers can access
the files in the server root

On Sun, 2 Nov 2008 19:04:02 -0500, "Ian" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I am trying to network four computers together in my home. I have a D-Link
>Router providing wireless for one of the computers (a laptop). In the four
>computers, there is two ones running Vista, one running XP (the laptop), and
>one running 98. So far the vista and xp computers can see each other and
>access each others files. The computer running 98 cannot see the others. The
>others also cannot see the 98 computer. The D-Link router shares a DSL
>internet connection and the 98 computer can access the internet. At first,
>NEBEUI was not installed. After install, same trouble. I was thinking it
>might be the McAfee firewalls running on the Vista and XP computers (The
>firewall could not be installed on Win98). Does another protocol need to be
>installed?
>
>I would like to know some answers. One of the vista computers was bought to
>replace the one with 98 and I would like to transfer my files.
>
>Ian Glen
>(E-Mail Removed)
>
>Additional Information:
>
>-All computers connected by Ethernet
>
>-Computers cannot be access 98 computer by \\192.168.0.108 or \\Sony
>
>-All computers can ping the 98 computer successfully
>
>-98 computer can be detected by using IP scanning software, but no Computer
>Name or MAC Address can be found
>
>-If 98 computer runs Personal Server Software, other computers can access
>the files in the server root

Don't install NetBEUI! TCP/IP the only protocol needed on all
computers, and installing another protocol could make things worse.

It isn't possible for Win98 to access a computer running Vista. Win98
can access XP. XP can access Win98 and Vista. Vista can access Win98
and XP.

Configure each computer's firewall program to allow access by other
computers on the local area network.

On Win98, make sure that Client for Microsoft Networks and File and
Printer Sharing are enabled.
--
Best Wishes,
Steve Winograd, MS-MVP (Windows Networking)

Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group
for everyone to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions
addressed directly to me in E-mail or news groups.

Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com

Wow!

I recently bought a new laptop that came with Vista and wanted to transfer
files from my older desktop running Win98FE. After lots of struggling and a
zillion reboots, I could get the Vista laptop to see the Win98, but not the
other way around. Now I see that's normal.

But it sure doesn't make Vista look very good. I was already thinking
seriously about adding XP to the laptop. Now it seems even more
worthwhile.


Is there a reasonable, practical reason why Vista isn't visible to a Win98
machine over a network?

DougVL




"Steve Winograd" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Sun, 2 Nov 2008 19:04:02 -0500, "Ian" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> >Hi,
> >
> >I am trying to network four computers together in my home. I have a
D-Link
> >Router providing wireless for one of the computers (a laptop). In the
four
> >computers, there is two ones running Vista, one running XP (the laptop),
and
> >one running 98. So far the vista and xp computers can see each other and
> >access each others files. The computer running 98 cannot see the others.
The
> >others also cannot see the 98 computer. The D-Link router shares a DSL
> >internet connection and the 98 computer can access the internet. At
first,
> >NEBEUI was not installed. After install, same trouble. I was thinking it
> >might be the McAfee firewalls running on the Vista and XP computers (The
> >firewall could not be installed on Win98). Does another protocol need to
be
> >installed?
> >
> >I would like to know some answers. One of the vista computers was bought
to
> >replace the one with 98 and I would like to transfer my files.
> >
> >Ian Glen
> >(E-Mail Removed)
> >
> >Additional Information:
> >
> >-All computers connected by Ethernet
> >
> >-Computers cannot be access 98 computer by \\192.168.0.108 or \\Sony
> >
> >-All computers can ping the 98 computer successfully
> >
> >-98 computer can be detected by using IP scanning software, but no
Computer
> >Name or MAC Address can be found
> >
> >-If 98 computer runs Personal Server Software, other computers can access
> >the files in the server root
>
> Don't install NetBEUI! TCP/IP the only protocol needed on all
> computers, and installing another protocol could make things worse.
>
> It isn't possible for Win98 to access a computer running Vista. Win98
> can access XP. XP can access Win98 and Vista. Vista can access Win98
> and XP.
>
> Configure each computer's firewall program to allow access by other
> computers on the local area network.
>
> On Win98, make sure that Client for Microsoft Networks and File and
> Printer Sharing are enabled.
> --
> Best Wishes,
> Steve Winograd, MS-MVP (Windows Networking)
>
> Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group
> for everyone to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions
> addressed directly to me in E-mail or news groups.
>
> Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program
> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com

On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 13:35:59 -0500, "DougVL" <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>Wow!
>
>I recently bought a new laptop that came with Vista and wanted to transfer
>files from my older desktop running Win98FE. After lots of struggling and a
>zillion reboots, I could get the Vista laptop to see the Win98, but not the
>other way around. Now I see that's normal.
>
>But it sure doesn't make Vista look very good. I was already thinking
>seriously about adding XP to the laptop. Now it seems even more
>worthwhile.
>
>
>Is there a reasonable, practical reason why Vista isn't visible to a Win98
>machine over a network?
>
>DougVL

Some reasons I've heard from people at Microsoft and elsewhere:

1. Microsoft ended support for Windows 98 on July 11, 2006, well
before Vista was released.

2. Compatibility with Windows 98 wasn't a design goal in Vista.

3. Security was a key design goal in Vista. Win98 doesn't support
some Vista security protocols, such as NTLMv2 challenge/response
session security, when part of a workgroup network.

I'll let you judge whether those explanations are reasonable and
practical.
--
Best Wishes,
Steve Winograd, MS-MVP (Windows Networking)

Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group
for everyone to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions
addressed directly to me in E-mail or news groups.

Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com

On Dec 18, 3:09*am, Steve Winograd <bc0705...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 13:35:59 -0500, "DougVL" <sword...@netonecom.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >Wow!
>
> >I recently bought a new laptop that came with Vista and wanted to transfer
> >files from my older desktop running Win98FE. *After lots of strugglingand a
> >zillion reboots, I could get the Vista laptop to see the Win98, but not the
> >other way around. *Now I see that's normal.
>
> >But it sure doesn't make Vista look very good. *I was already thinking
> >seriously about adding XP to the laptop. * Now it seems even more
> >worthwhile.
>
> >Is there a reasonable, practical reason why Vista isn't visible to a Win98
> >machine over a network?
>
> >DougVL
>
> Some reasons I've heard from people at Microsoft and elsewhere:
>
> 1. Microsoft ended support for Windows 98 on July 11, 2006, well
> before Vista was released.
>
> 2. Compatibility with Windows 98 wasn't a design goal in Vista.
>
> 3. Security was a key design goal in Vista. *Win98 doesn't support
> some Vista security protocols, such as NTLMv2 challenge/response
> session security, when part of a workgroup network.
>
> I'll let you judge whether those explanations are reasonable and
> practical.
> --
> Best Wishes,
> Steve Winograd, MS-MVP (Windows Networking)
>
> Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group
> for everyone to see. *I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions
> addressed directly to me in E-mail or news groups.
>
> Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Programhttp://mvp.support.microsoft.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Well, I can sure tell that security was a design goal. My new laptop
PC is constantly downloading security updates. Apparently the design
is an ongoing process. I wonder how long it'll be ongoing. Probably
until they can't support it any more.
If Vista is incompatible with Win98 on a network, how many other
systems became incompatible too? Unix? Macintosh? A business with a
big network and a variety of computers could get a nasty surprise. I
can't see why they couldn't at least put in a 'switch' so you/I could
enable Vista to work with Win98 if it were necessary - like in a home
system where security isn't such a great concern.
Oh, well, Microsoft obviously knows best.

DougVL

"Steve Winograd" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Sun, 2 Nov 2008 19:04:02 -0500, "Ian" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>
> It isn't possible for Win98 to access a computer running Vista. Win98
> can access XP. XP can access Win98 and Vista. Vista can access Win98
> and XP.
>
I am trying to network a Vista machine and a Windows 98 machine (wireless
adapters with a Netgear router attached to a cable modem). I have one
printer attached to the Vista machine. Are you implying that it will be
impossible for the W98 machine to use the printer?


--
Henry Goodman
email henry.dot.goodman.at.virgin.net

On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 22:04:32 -0000, "Henry Goodman"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>"Steve Winograd" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news:(E-Mail Removed).. .
>> On Sun, 2 Nov 2008 19:04:02 -0500, "Ian" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>
>> It isn't possible for Win98 to access a computer running Vista. Win98
>> can access XP. XP can access Win98 and Vista. Vista can access Win98
>> and XP.
>>
>I am trying to network a Vista machine and a Windows 98 machine (wireless
>adapters with a Netgear router attached to a cable modem). I have one
>printer attached to the Vista machine. Are you implying that it will be
>impossible for the W98 machine to use the printer?

Yes.
--
Best Wishes,
Steve Winograd, MS-MVP (Windows Desktop Experience)

Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group
for everyone to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions
addressed directly to me in E-mail or news groups.

Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com

Hey Steve, isn't there a few hacks [which affect VISTA Security though] such
as:

http://forums.techguy.org/networking...in-98-win.html
http://forums.techarena.in/windows-v...ork/768471.htm

--
~
--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org/ref/windows-main.htm
Windows Diagnostics, Security, Networking
http://peoplescounsel.org
The *REAL WORLD* of Law, Justice, and Government
_______



"Steve Winograd" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 22:04:32 -0000, "Henry Goodman"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> >"Steve Winograd" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> >news:(E-Mail Removed).. .
> >> On Sun, 2 Nov 2008 19:04:02 -0500, "Ian" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> It isn't possible for Win98 to access a computer running Vista. Win98
> >> can access XP. XP can access Win98 and Vista. Vista can access Win98
> >> and XP.
> >>
> >I am trying to network a Vista machine and a Windows 98 machine (wireless
> >adapters with a Netgear router attached to a cable modem). I have one
> >printer attached to the Vista machine. Are you implying that it will be
> >impossible for the W98 machine to use the printer?
>
> Yes.
> --
> Best Wishes,
> Steve Winograd, MS-MVP (Windows Desktop Experience)
>
> Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group
> for everyone to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions
> addressed directly to me in E-mail or news groups.
>
> Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program
> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com

On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 03:57:44 -0500, "MEB" <MEB@not@here> wrote:
>> >"Steve Winograd" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> >> It isn't possible for Win98 to access a computer running Vista. Win98
>> >> can access XP. XP can access Win98 and Vista. Vista can access Win98
>> >> and XP.
>
>Hey Steve, isn't there a few hacks [which affect VISTA Security though] such
>as:
>
>http://forums.techguy.org/networking...in-98-win.html
>http://forums.techarena.in/windows-v...ork/768471.htm

I've tried those hacks, which allow Win98 and Vista to use the same
level of network security. However, I've never seen anyone report
success in accessing Vista's shares from Win98 in a workgroup network.
In my tests, the Win98 system hangs, as some people described in the
links that you gave.

I've asked networking people at Microsoft if it's possible for Win98
to access Vista's shares, and no one has been able to tell me how to
do it. It's officially unsupported.
--
Best Wishes,
Steve Winograd, MS-MVP (Windows Desktop Experience)

Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group
for everyone to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions
addressed directly to me in E-mail or news groups.

Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com

"Steve Winograd" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 03:57:44 -0500, "MEB" <MEB@not@here> wrote:
> >> >"Steve Winograd" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> >> >> It isn't possible for Win98 to access a computer running Vista.
Win98
> >> >> can access XP. XP can access Win98 and Vista. Vista can access
Win98
> >> >> and XP.
> >
> >Hey Steve, isn't there a few hacks [which affect VISTA Security though]
such
> >as:
> >
>
>http://forums.techguy.org/networking...s-win-98-win.h
tml
> >http://forums.techarena.in/windows-v...ork/768471.htm
>
> I've tried those hacks, which allow Win98 and Vista to use the same
> level of network security. However, I've never seen anyone report
> success in accessing Vista's shares from Win98 in a workgroup network.
> In my tests, the Win98 system hangs, as some people described in the
> links that you gave.
>
> I've asked networking people at Microsoft if it's possible for Win98
> to access Vista's shares, and no one has been able to tell me how to
> do it. It's officially unsupported.
> --
> Best Wishes,
> Steve Winograd, MS-MVP (Windows Desktop Experience)
>
> Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group
> for everyone to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions
> addressed directly to me in E-mail or news groups.
>
> Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program
> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com

Right, I completely understand. However, it seems that MOST of what we do
in our personal systems is unsupported.
Perhaps that's why Microsoft is losing its market share to more open
"people supported" OSs. Moreover, this is likely part of WHY Microsoft had
to extend, AGAIN, the manufacturers' ability to install WinXP PRO until the
middle of this year or so.
VISTA as a Microsoft networkable ONLY product was a bad idea. Forcing
NTLMv2 [which has already been shown as flawed and hackable anyway] for
connections shows, once again, that Microsoft's "idea guys and gals" are as
*out of touch* with the wants and needs of the world as Microsoft has been
for the last 10 years or so. Whereas, the other OSs strive for
inter/extra-operability [though Apple needs some work].
Perhaps these 5000 people Microsoft is firing will be the ones that have
helped drive Microsoft into the ground... likely not....

Of course we could also discuss Windows7, and the public's perception ...

--
~
--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org/ref/windows-main.htm
Windows Diagnostics, Security, Networking
http://peoplescounsel.org
The *REAL WORLD* of Law, Justice, and Government
_______