WiFi Router X 2 = Repeater?

I was thinking about this the other night. If it's dumb question
I'm sure that everyone will rush to helpfully point this out, but
can't you make a repeater out of two WiFi routers?

If a distant wireless Internet AP is out of range of part of your
network and you can't move the access point, can't you take a
router located just within range, configure it to client mode on
the AP's channel (say 11), then run an ethernet cable from its
output to the "Internet in" port (or perhaps one of the switched
ports, I'm not sure) of a _second_ router configured as an AP on a
different channel (say 6) and then have that be the Internet
access point serving your more remote wireless computers?

Just asking here; as a thought problem, it's been nagging at me so
badly I was preparing to go buy more routers simply to test it
out, but I thought I'd save some money and ask here first. Thanks
for any clarification and help.

Fire away!

Always Thinkin' wrote:
> I was thinking about this the other night. If it's dumb question
> I'm sure that everyone will rush to helpfully point this out, but
> can't you make a repeater out of two WiFi routers?
>
> If a distant wireless Internet AP is out of range of part of your
> network and you can't move the access point, can't you take a
> router located just within range, configure it to client mode on
> the AP's channel (say 11), then run an ethernet cable from its
> output to the "Internet in" port (or perhaps one of the switched
> ports, I'm not sure) of a _second_ router configured as an AP on a
> different channel (say 6) and then have that be the Internet
> access point serving your more remote wireless computers?
>
> Just asking here; as a thought problem, it's been nagging at me so
> badly I was preparing to go buy more routers simply to test it
> out, but I thought I'd save some money and ask here first. Thanks
> for any clarification and help.
>
> Fire away!

Don't know about that situation exactly, but you can do it a whole lot
simpler.. output of one wap/router hardwired to the wan in of the second
device, same ssid and same channel, and wala, you essentially have a bigger
area covered and don't have to mess around with channels...Need 3/4/5/etc,
just daisy chain em to make it as big as needed.

"Peter Pan" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Always Thinkin' wrote:
>> I was thinking about this the other night. If it's dumb question
>> I'm sure that everyone will rush to helpfully point this out, but
>> can't you make a repeater out of two WiFi routers?
>>
>> If a distant wireless Internet AP is out of range of part of your
>> network and you can't move the access point, can't you take a
>> router located just within range, configure it to client mode on
>> the AP's channel (say 11), then run an ethernet cable from its
>> output to the "Internet in" port (or perhaps one of the switched
>> ports, I'm not sure) of a _second_ router configured as an AP on a
>> different channel (say 6) and then have that be the Internet
>> access point serving your more remote wireless computers?
>>
>> Just asking here; as a thought problem, it's been nagging at me so
>> badly I was preparing to go buy more routers simply to test it
>> out, but I thought I'd save some money and ask here first. Thanks
>> for any clarification and help.
>>
>> Fire away!
>
> Don't know about that situation exactly, but you can do it a whole lot
> simpler.. output of one wap/router hardwired to the wan in of the second
> device, same ssid and same channel, and wala, you essentially have a
> bigger area covered and don't have to mess around with channels...Need
> 3/4/5/etc, just daisy chain em to make it as big as needed.
actually, you should use the same SSID but not the same channel...

You can get wireless repeaters which stay just about in range of each
other and forward the signal.
http://wi-fi-hotspot.blogspot.com

"Always Thinkin'" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>I was thinking about this the other night. If it's dumb question
> I'm sure that everyone will rush to helpfully point this out, but
> can't you make a repeater out of two WiFi routers?
>
> If a distant wireless Internet AP is out of range of part of your
> network and you can't move the access point, can't you take a
> router located just within range, configure it to client mode on
> the AP's channel (say 11), then run an ethernet cable from its
> output to the "Internet in" port (or perhaps one of the switched
> ports, I'm not sure) of a _second_ router configured as an AP on a
> different channel (say 6) and then have that be the Internet
> access point serving your more remote wireless computers?
>
> Just asking here; as a thought problem, it's been nagging at me so
> badly I was preparing to go buy more routers simply to test it
> out, but I thought I'd save some money and ask here first. Thanks
> for any clarification and help.
>
> Fire away!

Sure, that would work.

Your described setup isn't really "repeating", but rather using one of the
two remote routers as a "client" and the second as only an "access point".
The same thing could also be done with a wireless-ethernet bridge "client"
plugged into an access point. In fact, doing something similiar to that
here. The "wireless client" is simply replacing a CAT5 run, thats all, for
a second AP -- which is still more efficient than "repeating" SSID's.

I used to "repeat", but after looking at how truely ugly repeating is with
SNMP applications, opted to just run addition AP's as just that --
additional AP's.

Best to get the additional AP's as far out from other AP's in order to
reduce RFI from one another. With my DLink's, I do this and also use the
same SSID/channel, which allows my laptop and other mobile devices to
seamlessly "jump to the strongest AP" without interruption. (Doesn't even
need to redo DHCP when it jumps over.)

"Eric" <n...@nospam.nnn> writes:

> Sure, that would work.

> Your described setup isn't really "repeating",
> but rather using one of the two remote routers
> as a "client" and the second as only an "access point".

Yes, that's right, that's what I meant.

The original, too-distant, host AP is connected wirelessly to a second router configured as a client (or a bridge, I'm unsure of the proper terminology) on the same channel (naturally), then that router is connected by cable to a third router that becomes the wireless AP for the "near" wireless devices that we desire to connect to the net through that distant first router. I'm assuming this third router must operate on a different channel from the original AP.

I tried to get some help on this elsewhere, but I was told the idea wouldn't work well because it would only communicate in half-duplex mode. ???

It's sort of hard to explain all this clearly without diagrams, though I don't think it's really complex once you "see" it mentally. 8-)

Thanks for any additional clarification & tips!


-=-
This message was sent via two or more anonymous remailing services.

On Fri, 26 May 2006 01:41:07 -0700, "Peter Pan"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Always Thinkin' wrote:
>> I was thinking about this the other night. If it's dumb question
>> I'm sure that everyone will rush to helpfully point this out, but
>> can't you make a repeater out of two WiFi routers?

>Don't know about that situation exactly, but you can do it a whole lot
>simpler.. output of one wap/router hardwired to the wan in of the second
>device, same ssid and same channel, and wala, you essentially have a bigger
>area covered and don't have to mess around with channels...Need 3/4/5/etc,
>just daisy chain em to make it as big as needed.
>
I have a DLink G604T which has always had a flaky ADSL modem,
disconnects, hard lockups etc etc. I've just replaced it with a
Linksys WAG54GX2 and I'd like to set up the scenario above so I can
extend the wan into the rest of our house.

Any chance you could give a little more detailed info on exactly what
I need to change in the Dlink to get it to act as you state?

Many thanks,
Regards, Jeff.

GuitarMan wrote:
> "Peter Pan" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Always Thinkin' wrote:
>>> I was thinking about this the other night. If it's dumb question
>>> I'm sure that everyone will rush to helpfully point this out, but
>>> can't you make a repeater out of two WiFi routers?
>>>
>>> If a distant wireless Internet AP is out of range of part of your
>>> network and you can't move the access point, can't you take a
>>> router located just within range, configure it to client mode on
>>> the AP's channel (say 11), then run an ethernet cable from its
>>> output to the "Internet in" port (or perhaps one of the switched
>>> ports, I'm not sure) of a _second_ router configured as an AP on a
>>> different channel (say 6) and then have that be the Internet
>>> access point serving your more remote wireless computers?
>>>
>>> Just asking here; as a thought problem, it's been nagging at me so
>>> badly I was preparing to go buy more routers simply to test it
>>> out, but I thought I'd save some money and ask here first. Thanks
>>> for any clarification and help.
>>>
>>> Fire away!
>>
>> Don't know about that situation exactly, but you can do it a whole
>> lot simpler.. output of one wap/router hardwired to the wan in of
>> the second device, same ssid and same channel, and wala, you
>> essentially have a bigger area covered and don't have to mess around
>> with channels...Need 3/4/5/etc, just daisy chain em to make it as
>> big as needed.
> actually, you should use the same SSID but not the same channel...

Same ssid's and same channel means it doesn't have to switch, and will
always stay on the same one, no matter where he is. (multiple ap's with the
same just make a bigger footprint, rather than seperate footprints requiring
the client to switch)

Jeff Hartley wrote:
> On Fri, 26 May 2006 01:41:07 -0700, "Peter Pan"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> Always Thinkin' wrote:
>>> I was thinking about this the other night. If it's dumb question
>>> I'm sure that everyone will rush to helpfully point this out, but
>>> can't you make a repeater out of two WiFi routers?
>
>> Don't know about that situation exactly, but you can do it a whole
>> lot simpler.. output of one wap/router hardwired to the wan in of
>> the second device, same ssid and same channel, and wala, you
>> essentially have a bigger area covered and don't have to mess around
>> with channels...Need 3/4/5/etc, just daisy chain em to make it as
>> big as needed.
>>
> I have a DLink G604T which has always had a flaky ADSL modem,
> disconnects, hard lockups etc etc. I've just replaced it with a
> Linksys WAG54GX2 and I'd like to set up the scenario above so I can
> extend the wan into the rest of our house.
>
> Any chance you could give a little more detailed info on exactly what
> I need to change in the Dlink to get it to act as you state?
>
> Many thanks,
> Regards, Jeff.

I hate to tell you, but I have never had any success with D-Link stuff...
(personally I'd toss it).. Have three Linksys wrt54g's (not the gs model,
got the g's at walmart for about $48 bucks each). Have one in the house (sat
in, no dsl or cable here in the boonies), and a hardwire to the garage
(along with power/phone/cable TV/intercom etc, where I have a second) and
then from there to an outbuilding(cabin) (a few hundred feet back on the
property, with power/phone/cable/etc .../hardwired from the garage, I call
it the back 4, cuz I have a 5 acre chunk, and the house is on the front 1)..
Why the same ssid and channel? Don't care which I connect to, I just want to
connect and stay connected from my laptop as I walk around. Why three
wrt54g's? cuz they are everything in one box (wap and router), and having
three the same means I can swap em for debugging... The wag is a wap only
(no router).. and the specifics are to go from the output of one router to
the input of the next wap/router (since you don't have the router part,
wouldn't work for you).
Help any?

"Always Thinkin'" <Anonymous-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:9F2TZM7A38863.6185300926@anonymous...
> "Eric" <n...@nospam.nnn> writes:
>
>> Sure, that would work.
>
>> Your described setup isn't really "repeating",
>> but rather using one of the two remote routers
>> as a "client" and the second as only an "access point".
>
> Yes, that's right, that's what I meant.
>
> The original, too-distant, host AP is connected wirelessly to a second
> router configured as a client (or a bridge, I'm unsure of the proper
> terminology) on the same channel (naturally), then that router is
> connected by cable to a third router that becomes the wireless AP for the
> "near" wireless devices that we desire to connect to the net through that
> distant first router. I'm assuming this third router must operate on a
> different channel from the original AP.
>
> I tried to get some help on this elsewhere, but I was told the idea
> wouldn't work well because it would only communicate in half-duplex mode.
> ???

Yeah, "repeating" gets you into half-duplex, cutting your pipe in half. I
had an AP running as a "repeater" for my WLAN for a time, but after looking
at with SNMP tools saw how really ugly it is -- and just ran CAT5 to it.
For internet-only traffic, it may not be too noticable, but becomes a
bottleneck for WLAN traffic.

Your remote "router to router" (acting like a wireless-ethernet bridge
"client" to "access point") shouldn't cut the pipe in half though since its
not a "repeater" and there is more hardware dedicated. Its just a
stand-alone "AP", with the CAT5 replaced by another piece of wireless h/w...