Wifi ISP (Hardware Help!)

Hey all,

ive been doing some research through this newsgroup on wifi (long
range) hardware and everyone seems to point me to the airpoint XO
products but i was hoping somebody could give me a answer on that
range of those

the website smartbridges.com claims a range of 32km's, is there any
truth to it?

what range should i expect in a urban city environment (buildings here
and there)

if the hardware isnt suitable for a Long range wifi service which
hardware would be better suited? (already looked at canopy)

area im trying to cover is 5-10km

its Essential to cover the 5-10km's data rate isnt all that important
so a 900mhz waverider hardware kit should work too right? any comments
on that?


waiting to hear from you all thanks everyone.

jaykay

(E-Mail Removed) (Jk) wrote:

>
>ive been doing some research through this newsgroup on wifi (long
>range) hardware and everyone seems to point me to the airpoint XO
>products but i was hoping somebody could give me a answer on that
>range of those
>
>the website smartbridges.com claims a range of 32km's, is there any
>truth to it?
>
>what range should i expect in a urban city environment (buildings here
>and there)
>

You need to specify whether you are trying to do point to point or overall
coverage. There is no way you will get 32km omni coverage out of a single
antenna using 802.11 gear. You should be able to get a point to point that long
using high gain parabolic antennas.

You will get zero coverage if you have any building blockage. You will get very
little penetration in an urban environment. Ie, you will need an external
antenna at both locations.

Try this web site for some great calculators:

http://www.ecommwireless.com/calculations.html

Specifically, look at the Simple Wireless Network Link Analysis and Fresnel Zone
Calculator links...

Jk wrote:

> Hey all,
>
> ive been doing some research through this newsgroup on wifi (long
> range) hardware and everyone seems to point me to the airpoint XO
> products but i was hoping somebody could give me a answer on that
> range of those
>
> the website smartbridges.com claims a range of 32km's, is there any
> truth to it?
>
> what range should i expect in a urban city environment (buildings here
> and there)
>
> if the hardware isnt suitable for a Long range wifi service which
> hardware would be better suited? (already looked at canopy)
>
> area im trying to cover is 5-10km

You might want to read some books on using WiFi for such purposes. However,
32 Km seems a bit far, without using some extremely (huge) antenna. This
will also bring significant aiming difficulties. O'Reilly has some good
books on WiFi.




--

Fundamentalism is fundamentally wrong.

To reply to this message, replace everything to the left of "@" with
james.knott.

(E-Mail Removed) (Jk) wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed). com>...

> the website smartbridges.com claims a range of 32km's, is there any
> truth to it?

32Km / 20 miles is about the theoretical maximum for any level-ground
line of sight transmission, due to curvature of the Earth. Cisco and
other makers claim similar numbers for their top-end wireless bridges,
but that's a blue-sky number under absolutely perfect conditions,
professionally mounted dish antennae on tall masts, etc.

If 802.11b doesn't suit your needs, your other options for those sorts
of distances are microwave, or a traditional telco connection.

And, reiterating the previous poster, this is for a
building-to-building connection, not blanket coverage. Your radius
with this equipment for providing service to individual users is at
best a couple of hundred feet around each device.

-Gabriel

In article <(E-Mail Removed)> ,
Gabriel <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
:(E-Mail Removed) (Jk) wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed). com>...

:> the website smartbridges.com claims a range of 32km's, is there any
:> truth to it?

:32Km / 20 miles is about the theoretical maximum for any level-ground
:line of sight transmission, due to curvature of the Earth. Cisco and
ther makers claim similar numbers for their top-end wireless bridges,
:but that's a blue-sky number under absolutely perfect conditions,
rofessionally mounted dish antennae on tall masts, etc.

Quoting myself quoting another site:

http://groups.google.ca/groups?selm=...c.umanitoba.ca

http://www.ronen.ampr.org/wlan.html

Today the 100KM Haifa Tel Aviv test was made and the results were more
then expected

The link was Full Quality stable (3 leds on the BreezeCom Units)


The Cisco 1400 outdoor 802.11a wireless bridge is, as you
indicated, rated in about the 20 mile range; the spec is 23 miles
at 9 Mbps using 28 dBi dishes.
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/...08018495c.html

I don't know how the ampr people are managing to do so much better
with their BeezeComs. See, though, my earlier posting for
a credible claim of 35 miles.
--
Suppose there was a test you could take that would report whether
you had Free Will or were Pre-Destined. Would you take the test?

thanks everyone for the input

if i install an airpoint xo access point with a powerfull
omnidirectional antenna and then give all my clients 802.11b pcmcia
cards which include a external antenna (antenna will be installed
outdoors) will that work?


im trying to do a point to multipoint installation.

In article <(E-Mail Removed) >,
Jk <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
:if i install an airpoint xo access point with a powerfull
mnidirectional antenna and then give all my clients 802.11b pcmcia
:cards which include a external antenna (antenna will be installed
utdoors) will that work?

:im trying to do a point to multipoint installation.

I do not know anything about the airport xo series.

If you follow the Cisco 1400 link I gave (which is for 802.11a,
not 802.11b), then you may note that the -N version it is rated
for point-to-multipoint to 7 km (4 miles) at 54 Mbps,
18 km (11 miles) at 9 Mbps. But that assumes a 28 dBi dish at
each of the sites, with a "sector antenna" at the main location.

So, assuming line of site (with room for fresnel zones) is available,
what you are asking for is technically possible... but it might not
be cheap.

--
Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct,
not tried it. -- Donald Knuth

(E-Mail Removed) (Jk) wrote:

>if i install an airpoint xo access point with a powerfull
>omnidirectional antenna and then give all my clients 802.11b pcmcia
>cards which include a external antenna (antenna will be installed
>outdoors) will that work?

The question can't be answered in general. You will need to do a site survey for
each location you want to serve, make sure you have line of sight (including
allowances for the fresnel effect) and run the calculations for the antennas
involved.

thanks for the info mr.roberson

i looked up the cisco 1400 but the problem is that its not going to be
cheap, the antenna (24dbi dish) was listed @ 900$ which is insanely
expensive.

i found this outdoor ap from senao (senao.com.tw) and it seems to be a
good product (200mw, company claims a 25km link range) any ideas on
that ?

thanks all.

sjk

(E-Mail Removed) (Walter Roberson) wrote in message news:<bt0te4$289$(E-Mail Removed)>...
> In article <(E-Mail Removed)> ,
> Gabriel <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> :(E-Mail Removed) (Jk) wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed). com>...
>
> :> the website smartbridges.com claims a range of 32km's, is there any
> :> truth to it?
>
> :32Km / 20 miles is about the theoretical maximum for any level-ground
> :line of sight transmission, due to curvature of the Earth. Cisco and
> ther makers claim similar numbers for their top-end wireless bridges,
> :but that's a blue-sky number under absolutely perfect conditions,
> rofessionally mounted dish antennae on tall masts, etc.
>
> Quoting myself quoting another site:
>
> http://groups.google.ca/groups?selm=...c.umanitoba.ca
>
> http://www.ronen.ampr.org/wlan.html
>
> Today the 100KM Haifa Tel Aviv test was made and the results were more
> then expected
>
> The link was Full Quality stable (3 leds on the BreezeCom Units)
>
>
> The Cisco 1400 outdoor 802.11a wireless bridge is, as you
> indicated, rated in about the 20 mile range; the spec is 23 miles
> at 9 Mbps using 28 dBi dishes.
> http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/...08018495c.html
>
> I don't know how the ampr people are managing to do so much better
> with their BeezeComs. See, though, my earlier posting for
> a credible claim of 35 miles.

My post specifically referred to level-ground installations, and for a
reason. If you have two sea-level installations 20 miles apart, you
need a 115' tall mast to get 60% fresnel clearance above the curvature
of the Earth. For 25 miles you need a 150' tall mast. In uneven or
elevated terrain, much longer distances are possible, but there's no
point in discussing such a scenario in the abstract; telling the guy
to do a survey is the only useful advice to be offered.

-Gabriel