wifi antenna in the mountains

I've spent a dozen hours looking for a solution to my situation, and
I'm only finding parts of the answer. Here's the deal.

I live in a beautiful canyon 4 miles from the valley/city. A peak 600
feet from my house has line of sight to the city where there are WISP
towers. Likewise, I have line of site from my front door to the peak
600 feet away. I can build a biquad antenna and put it on that point
and it receives a signal (tested with my laptop), but I'm stuck after
that.

Obstacle 1. There's no electrical power plug on the peak.
a. I'm not comfortable running power/conduit that distance (and I'm
sure there are ordanances against that)
b. The distance is too far for Power Over Ethernet

Obstacle 2. How to get the signal from the bi-quad to my home:
a. The distance is too far for Cat5 cable, and there's no way to power
any in-line repeaters
b. I could run fiber cable, but that requires power at the antenna
c. I could run old ThickNet 10-base-5 cable, but that requires power at
the antenna

So, a couple exotic ideas I have:
Is it possible to build a bi-quad that captures the signal without
power or only with simple batteries, then use a cantenna at my house
pointed to the bi-quad?
Can I build some sort of reflector on the point such as a mirror or
metal sheet, then locate the bi-quad at my house and point it at the
reflector?

Are there other viable options? Looking for some creative ideas here.

Thanks in advance

Why not just get satellite internet? Is this a hobby project? Anyways, it
seems that power is your problem here. I am interested inseeing what people
come up with.

K

"getwilde" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...
> I've spent a dozen hours looking for a solution to my situation, and
> I'm only finding parts of the answer. Here's the deal.
>
> I live in a beautiful canyon 4 miles from the valley/city. A peak 600
> feet from my house has line of sight to the city where there are WISP
> towers. Likewise, I have line of site from my front door to the peak
> 600 feet away. I can build a biquad antenna and put it on that point
> and it receives a signal (tested with my laptop), but I'm stuck after
> that.
>
> Obstacle 1. There's no electrical power plug on the peak.
> a. I'm not comfortable running power/conduit that distance (and I'm
> sure there are ordanances against that)
> b. The distance is too far for Power Over Ethernet
>
> Obstacle 2. How to get the signal from the bi-quad to my home:
> a. The distance is too far for Cat5 cable, and there's no way to power
> any in-line repeaters
> b. I could run fiber cable, but that requires power at the antenna
> c. I could run old ThickNet 10-base-5 cable, but that requires power at
> the antenna
>
> So, a couple exotic ideas I have:
> Is it possible to build a bi-quad that captures the signal without
> power or only with simple batteries, then use a cantenna at my house
> pointed to the bi-quad?
> Can I build some sort of reflector on the point such as a mirror or
> metal sheet, then locate the bi-quad at my house and point it at the
> reflector?
>
> Are there other viable options? Looking for some creative ideas here.
>
> Thanks in advance
>

"Me" <(E-Mail Removed)> schreef in bericht
news:qabff.3606$(E-Mail Removed).. .
> Why not just get satellite internet? Is this a hobby project? Anyways,
> it seems that power is your problem here. I am interested inseeing what
> people come up with.
>
> K
I agree. Is solar and/or wind power and a car battery a viable option?

Paul

Paul wrote:
> "Me" <(E-Mail Removed)> schreef in bericht
> news:qabff.3606$(E-Mail Removed).. .
>
>>Why not just get satellite internet? Is this a hobby project? Anyways,
>>it seems that power is your problem here. I am interested inseeing what
>>people come up with.
>>
>>K
>
> I agree. Is solar and/or wind power and a car battery a viable option?
>
> Paul
>
>
Sheesh, how about just using a passive repeater ??

youcantoo wrote:
> Paul wrote:
>
>> "Me" <(E-Mail Removed)> schreef in bericht
>> news:qabff.3606$(E-Mail Removed).. .
>>
>>> Why not just get satellite internet? Is this a hobby project?
>>> Anyways, it seems that power is your problem here. I am interested
>>> inseeing what people come up with.
>>>
>>> K
>>
>>
>> I agree. Is solar and/or wind power and a car battery a viable option?
>>
>> Paul
>>
> Sheesh, how about just using a passive repeater ??

Exactly what I was thinking. getwilde, just take two decent antennas,
grid parabolics would be nice and not necessarily all that expensive,
and hook them up with a bit of coax running from one antenna to the
other. Aim one at your house, one at the WISP. No electronics involved
so no need of elecjuicity.

Me wrote:

> Why not just get satellite internet? Is this a hobby project? Anyways,
> it
> seems that power is your problem here. I am interested inseeing what
> people come up with.

Ack! As a satellite internet user, I'd jump through more hoops than the OP
is facing to get service from a WISP!

> "getwilde" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...
>>
>> I live in a beautiful canyon 4 miles from the valley/city. A peak 600
>> feet from my house has line of sight to the city where there are WISP
>> towers. Likewise, I have line of site from my front door to the peak
>> 600 feet away. I can build a biquad antenna and put it on that point
>> and it receives a signal (tested with my laptop), but I'm stuck after
>> that.
>>
>> Obstacle 1. There's no electrical power plug on the peak.

OK, that's an obstacle. You could probably solve it with a solar panel and
a battery - but theft could be a problem. It would still be my choice.

>> Obstacle 2. How to get the signal from the bi-quad to my home:
>> a. The distance is too far for Cat5 cable

No, it isn't. I know the standard specifies 100m, but Jeff will tell you he
runs it 1000'

--
derek

getwilde wrote:
> I've spent a dozen hours looking for a solution to my situation, and
> I'm only finding parts of the answer. Here's the deal.
>
> I live in a beautiful canyon 4 miles from the valley/city. A peak 600
> feet from my house has line of sight to the city where there are WISP
> towers. Likewise, I have line of site from my front door to the peak
> 600 feet away. I can build a biquad antenna and put it on that point
> and it receives a signal (tested with my laptop), but I'm stuck after
> that.
>
> Obstacle 1. There's no electrical power plug on the peak.
> a. I'm not comfortable running power/conduit that distance (and I'm
> sure there are ordanances against that)
> b. The distance is too far for Power Over Ethernet
>
> Obstacle 2. How to get the signal from the bi-quad to my home:
> a. The distance is too far for Cat5 cable, and there's no way to power
> any in-line repeaters
> b. I could run fiber cable, but that requires power at the antenna
> c. I could run old ThickNet 10-base-5 cable, but that requires power at
> the antenna
>
> So, a couple exotic ideas I have:
> Is it possible to build a bi-quad that captures the signal without
> power or only with simple batteries, then use a cantenna at my house
> pointed to the bi-quad?
> Can I build some sort of reflector on the point such as a mirror or
> metal sheet, then locate the bi-quad at my house and point it at the
> reflector?
>
> Are there other viable options? Looking for some creative ideas here.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
You should investigate placing a decent gain passive radiator on the
high spot and a good gain antenna at the home , some simple testing with
the laptop will confirm this suggestion but do remember the passive
needs specific high gain and careful installation , good luck

getwilde <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> 600 feet away. I can build a biquad antenna and put it on that point
> and it receives a signal (tested with my laptop), but I'm stuck after
> that.

> Obstacle 1. There's no electrical power plug on the peak.

You could do something solar powered on the peak.

Cringely has a writeup about using passive repeaters in the same situation,
with no power required.
http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20010628.html
http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20010712.html
Some people question that he actually accomplished this.

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5

On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 00:41:07 +1000, ReginaldP
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>You should investigate placing a decent gain passive radiator on the
>high spot and a good gain antenna at the home , some simple testing with
>the laptop will confirm this suggestion but do remember the passive
>needs specific high gain and careful installation , good luck

Do you have any idea how large the passive reflector will need to be
at 600ft in order to make this useable? At 2.4GHz, the highest gain
antenna is about 24dBi with a 7 degree beamwidth. At 600ft, that beam
is 74ft wide. With a 45 degree tilt angle, that's a 103 x 103 ft
diameter reflector. Anything less will result in corresponding loss
of signal. Half the size = 1/4th the area = -12dB loss.

I can work the numbers in detail if you want, but such arrangements
never work at 2.4Ghz. See references under "periscope antennas".

--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Oh, now you've got me excited. I figured juice would be required
between antennas (but I'm still trying to learn all of the principles
involved). If I were to build a passive setup like Roger explains, do
I decrease range by not having power? The 4 or 5 miles to the Acess
Point worries me a bit.

So, am I thinking about this right...? To increase range: Is adding an
amplifier at my house the best way to increase the outgoing signal,
even though it will be passing through the passive antenna? Likewise,
if the grid parabolic pointed at the WISP is larger, is that the best
way to increase incoming reception? (Assuming I build the whole setup
well)

Incidentally, yes, solar and a car battery are options, but a huge
hassle if I can avoid them (and I would run the risk of having them
stolen at some point). But if I were told that power at the middle
antenna is the only way to insure good range, then I'd definitely
explore that further. I'd even be willing to march up there every few
weeks to replace batteries (skip the solar power thing altogether), if
power requirements were low enough to make a small battery rack an
option.