Wi-Fi antenna brands/quality/reviews

Hello.

I've been searching around for awhile now, trying to find some good
information about antennas and have come up with pretty much nothing.

I've noticed there are a lot of places selling antennas for 802.11 systems
and the prices vary widely. Most seem to have similar or identical
specifications, yet the "same" item can range in price from about $20 to
$200.

For example, the following patch antennas have very similar characteristics
but different prices:

Cisco AIR-ANT3549 Patch antenna: $137.00 (www.infinity-micro.com)
Hyperlink HG2409P Patch antenna: $24.95 (www.hyperlinktech.com)

Some of the other places I've looked include: WinnCom (www.winncom.com),
Connectronics (www.connectronics.com), Wi-Fi Plus (www.wifi-plus), Symbol,
Cisco, Hawking (www.hawkingtech.com), Andrew (www.andrew.com), 3Com, Telex,
and many more...

So here is my question: Has anyone seen any *real* information or had any
experience with antenna manufacturers/distributors? I'm willing to pay more
for quality, but I can't seem to determine which products are actually good
and which are just "expensive".

Thanks!

Steve

all of these antennas cost about 5 $ to build by hand.
they all based on the same concept.
just make your own there are plenty of how tos with pics online.
dont waste your money
"Steven Scott" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:MTUae.30525$lv1.7224@fed1read06...
>
> Hello.
>
> I've been searching around for awhile now, trying to find some good
> information about antennas and have come up with pretty much nothing.
>
> I've noticed there are a lot of places selling antennas for 802.11 systems
> and the prices vary widely. Most seem to have similar or identical
> specifications, yet the "same" item can range in price from about $20 to
> $200.
>
> For example, the following patch antennas have very similar
> characteristics but different prices:
>
> Cisco AIR-ANT3549 Patch antenna: $137.00 (www.infinity-micro.com)
> Hyperlink HG2409P Patch antenna: $24.95 (www.hyperlinktech.com)
>
> Some of the other places I've looked include: WinnCom (www.winncom.com),
> Connectronics (www.connectronics.com), Wi-Fi Plus (www.wifi-plus), Symbol,
> Cisco, Hawking (www.hawkingtech.com), Andrew (www.andrew.com), 3Com,
> Telex, and many more...
>
> So here is my question: Has anyone seen any *real* information or had any
> experience with antenna manufacturers/distributors? I'm willing to pay
> more for quality, but I can't seem to determine which products are
> actually good and which are just "expensive".
>
> Thanks!
>
> Steve
>
>

On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 15:15:24 -0700, "Steven Scott"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>So here is my question: Has anyone seen any *real* information or had any
>experience with antenna manufacturers/distributors? I'm willing to pay more
>for quality, but I can't seem to determine which products are actually good
>and which are just "expensive".

Variations in quality of construction and materials will produce wide
variations in pricing. An indoor patch antenna does not need to have
anti-corrosion protection, corrosion proof materials, water proof
connectors, strong pipe mounts, and bullet proof packaging. A similar
gain outdoor antenna may be built quite differently. Cheapo patch
antennas might be built on hi-loss G10 circuit boards, while the more
expensive variety will use pricy TFE-epoxy boards.

So, what your requirements and how will the antenna(s) be used? Your
question is far too general for a specific answer.

As for distributors, I like:
http://www.ecomwireless.com
http://www.fab-corp.com
For patch antenna manufacturers, I've had good luck with Maxrad WISP
series:

http://www.maxrad.com/cgi/maxrad_pro...&catalog=10001

--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558

Thanks for the quick response. I'll take a look at the links you've sent
me - I appreciate it.

At the moment, the I'm trying to help cover my friend's house with a single
access point. There are a number of people in the house that will be using
the wireless for Internet browsing (6 roommates with laptops). I don't think
that a patch antenna would be the best choice here, it was just used as an
example.

My though is to use an 8dbi omni, mounted in the attic (inverted) and placed
in the center of the house. Output from the AP is 100mw (but I have 250mw
amp if I need it). The approximate size of the home is 30' x 90', two
stories.

I'm just wondering how much difference a "good" antenna makes over a "cheap"
one. I've not been able to find any reviews, comments or other
non-sales/useful information about different manufacturers or types. Each
company will give you their "pitch", but none of them can seem to back it up
with real data.

s.



"Jeff Liebermann" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 15:15:24 -0700, "Steven Scott"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>So here is my question: Has anyone seen any *real* information or had any
>>experience with antenna manufacturers/distributors? I'm willing to pay
>>more
>>for quality, but I can't seem to determine which products are actually
>>good
>>and which are just "expensive".
>
> Variations in quality of construction and materials will produce wide
> variations in pricing. An indoor patch antenna does not need to have
> anti-corrosion protection, corrosion proof materials, water proof
> connectors, strong pipe mounts, and bullet proof packaging. A similar
> gain outdoor antenna may be built quite differently. Cheapo patch
> antennas might be built on hi-loss G10 circuit boards, while the more
> expensive variety will use pricy TFE-epoxy boards.
>
> So, what your requirements and how will the antenna(s) be used? Your
> question is far too general for a specific answer.
>
> As for distributors, I like:
> http://www.ecomwireless.com
> http://www.fab-corp.com
> For patch antenna manufacturers, I've had good luck with Maxrad WISP
> series:
>
> http://www.maxrad.com/cgi/maxrad_pro...&catalog=10001
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
> 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558

Steven Scott <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> At the moment, the I'm trying to help cover my friend's house with a
> single access point. There are a number of people in the house that will
> be using the wireless for Internet browsing (6 roommates with laptops).

Six people using wireless simultaneously? Or surfing simultaneously? With
shared DSL, everyone can tell when a bittorrent is downloading. There is
only so much speed on the internet link, which you are sharing. You are
also sharing the wireless speed, if there's any gaming going on.

> My though is to use an 8dbi omni, mounted in the attic (inverted) and
> placed in the center of the house. Output from the AP is 100mw (but I
> have 250mw amp if I need it). The approximate size of the home is 30' x
> 90', two stories.

I cover a 65x105 house nicely with a Netgear at the one end with EZ-12
Windsurfer reflector on the one stock vertical antenna. In a townhouse,
the router is upstairs, and two PCs are downstairs. Here the router is
near the floor, on the second floor, at the back of the house. It has two
antennas, parallel to the floor, each with an EZ-10 corner reflector. The
performance is not so good on one of the PCs because it has an internal PCI
card with the antenna on the "wrong" side of the PC, shielded from the
router.

> I'm just wondering how much difference a "good" antenna makes over a
> "cheap" one. I've not been able to find any reviews, comments or other

Except for the Signal Seeker, most antennas are what they are, presuming
there's no outright fraud. Indoor mounting puts you at the low end of the
demand range. Outdoor applications are subject to widely varying long term
durability due to differing materials.

Jeff is more concerned with industrial quality. I like reflectors although
I do have one commercial antenna.

http://www.freeantennas.com EZ-12 is easy to make. Print it on some heavy
stock. I used photo paper. If you have twin antennas, you can make two,
in the size that it comes. If you have one antenna, you can enlarge it to
full sheet.

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5

On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 17:53:10 -0700, "Steven Scott"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>At the moment, the I'm trying to help cover my friend's house with a single
>access point. There are a number of people in the house that will be using
>the wireless for Internet browsing (6 roommates with laptops). I don't think
>that a patch antenna would be the best choice here, it was just used as an
>example.

Actually, I think a patch antenna would be an excellent choice.
They're cheap, about the right gain, and have a wide -3dB beamwidth.
The beamwidth is critical in "illuminating" the house. An antenna
with the same gain, but a narrower beamwidth can only light up parts
of the house.

>My though is to use an 8dbi omni, mounted in the attic (inverted) and placed
>in the center of the house.


In general, going through three or more walls is going to be a
problem. If there is metal in the walls (foil backed insulation),
it's impossible. For multiple floors, I always recommend one access
point per floor, using different channels (1,6,11), but the same SSID.
Well, actually I use different SSID's on different floors so its
possible to select which access point I'm using.

Also, high gain omni antennas are not a great idea for multiple
floors. The vertical radiation angle of your proposed 8dBi ommi is
about 20 degrees which means that clients above and below the
horizontal plane will have problems connecting. Certainly users
directly above and below the access point will have problems. Omnis
are also more susceptible to internal reflections and multipath.

>Output from the AP is 100mw (but I have 250mw
>amp if I need it). The approximate size of the home is 30' x 90', two
>stories.

General construction materials? Any metal in the walls or floors?
Approximate location of access point? How many walls must the signal
pentrate to the worst location?

>I'm just wondering how much difference a "good" antenna makes over a "cheap"
>one.

There are only three characteristics worth noteing.
1. Antenna Gain.
2. Antenna pattern (beamwidth).
3. VSWR over the bandwidth.
As far as these characteristics are concerned, there's no difference
between a "good" or "bad" antenna. However, variations in
construction methods and materials will have some effects. Whatever
you do, don't assume that higher gain equals higher quality.

>I've not been able to find any reviews, comments or other
>non-sales/useful information about different manufacturers or types. Each
>company will give you their "pitch", but none of them can seem to back it up
>with real data.

Well, antennas are fairly close to magic. It's not possible to "see"
RF. The published antenna patterns are often science fiction, where
the mounting location has a huge effect. Verifying test patterns with
field tests often discloses huge discrepancies with the computer
models and large experimental error. Even the computer models vary
substantially due to variations in assumptions and algorithms. Most
"reviews" mention the gain and that's about it. A few are misleading
such as those that advertise the antenna gain, but completely ignore
the losses in the attached coax cable. If you're interested, I can
point you to web sites that do a comparative analysis of different
antenna types but will require some expertise to understand. Start
here:
http://www.qsl.net/n1bwt/contents.htm



--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Well, antennas are fairly close to magic.

So Ed might be right?

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5

I'm new to all this

can one just "buy" a wifi antenna say for car use?

If yes... what do you recommend?

On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:45:57 +0000 (UTC),
(E-Mail Removed) wrote:

>Jeff Liebermann <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> Well, antennas are fairly close to magic.

>So Ed might be right?

Yes. Ed is a magician. Ever watch a magician in action? The
majority of the audience has no clue how it's done, instinctively know
that it's all a fake, and can rarely be convinced of anything beyond
its entertainment value. However, there is always a minority of
believers, that can be convinced of anything, and often can be made to
pay for it. Those are called customers and Ed knows how to make them
pay.

I somewhat envy Ed. I have no sales abilities. If I don't bury the
customers in technobabble, I bore them to death with detail. Clear
cut pronouncements of superiority ("this is the best") are replaced
with my attempts to quantify that intangibles. I'll often criticize
ALL the products on the assumption that the customer wants to be
informed or educated. I often have trouble giving things away.

My introduction into electronics and antennas in the late 1950's was
inspired partly by reading an article about someone getting charged
with fraud for selling "turn your house wiring into a giant 1000ft TV
antenna". What I couldn't understand was that it was an obvious
fraud, dangerous as implemented, yet the advertisements in Popular
Electronics continued every month, and people continued to buy it. At
first, I just wanted to understand how it works. Later, I decided my
goal in life was perform a similar fraud. Antennas seemed perfect.
You can't see the RF, you can touch the electrons, few people
understand how they work, and you can't live without them.

So, I study Ed system and try to understand his methods. He relies on
testimonials and a growing reputation. The comments from buyers on
eBay are 97.5% favorable. They like Ed and his products. He must be
doing something right? My basic problem is that I need an income when
I retire and antennas look like a good possibility.

I see all this as an indication that the world is ready for my line of
designer boutique antennas and radios. Instead of boring technical
specifications and reproducible tests, I plan to sell my antennas as
magic, amazing, miracle, turbo, accelerated, enhanced, self-boosted,
secret, and other superlatives. Instead of plain white fiberglass, my
antennas will be sculpted and embellished with "signal enhancing
semi-precious crystals and jewels". Instead of simple geometric
shapes, they will look like something out of a science fiction movie,
on the assumption that the weirder it looks, the better it works.

If I succeed, I can thank Ed for the inspiration, the proof that it
can be done, and the magic necessary to make it happen.


--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558

(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> I'm new to all this

> can one just "buy" a wifi antenna say for car use?

There are certainly some commercial mag-mount antennas intended for
automotive use. http://www.fab-corp.com/ click on "antennas omni" on the
left. The little 5.5dBi mag mount has too thin of a cable, so you don't
really get 5.5 dBi from it, but it's cheap, if you have a card that accepts
an external antenna. Inside the car, you could use any of the indoor
antennas. The ones intended for client use usually have little desk
stands.

You might be intrigued by making your own.
http://www.lincomatic.com/wireless/homebrewant.html
The patch panel is probably the cleanest design.
http://www.lincomatic.com/wireless/w...chantenna.html

Patches are directional enough to provide some good gain toward where you
are driving, if mounted correctly, and wide enough to just point in the
general direction. I assume you are thinking of something like parking in
front of a Starbucks while using your T-Mobile connection.

A USB adapter, either mini or full size, allows you to put the radio and
antenna in a better location than a card plugged into your laptop.
That eliminates the need for a card with an external connector.

I suppose you could mag mount one to the roof of the car... I'll let Jeff
model the reflections for that one ;-)

The USB mini that I have is a DWL-122. I just hang the USB cable over the
rearview mirror for a view out the front of the car. Sometimes I stick it
in a coffee can for improved range.
http://www.dlink.com/products/?sec=0&pid=334 That's a "g", My "b" seems
to have disappeared from the web site. The "b" were pretty cheap, down
around $10.
Mine, stuck in a coffee can:
http://www.rahul.net/dold/clarence/u...42-800x600.jpg

There are combination USB radio with antenna from Hawking and others.
http://www.hawkingtech.com/prodSpec.php?ProdID=208

--
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Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5