WHY WINS

Hi

I have clients connecting SBS server with VPN SW client. They receive
message that they are connected to domain. They can ping the server. However,
they can't see network shares or use excange whitout if I manually set in NIC
adapter TCP/IP settings WINS server address. I have used WINS in because
browsing is usually problen whitout it.

Physically workstations are out of my reach, all over the country.
DHCP-server is firewall. How can I implemet this VPN without manually change
dynamic TCP/IP setting to use WINS server?

Thanks,

Juha

Is the SBS server configured to use WINS? Usually the VPN client gets the
WINS server address which is configured on the VPN server.

A remote user usually can't browse if it doesn't have the correct WINS
server address. It needs WINS to resolve names to IP addresses. A remote
user can't use broadcasts for this, because they don't cross the WAN link.

"Juha" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:46549F1E-7305-4391-81DA-(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hi
>
> I have clients connecting SBS server with VPN SW client. They receive
> message that they are connected to domain. They can ping the server.
> However,
> they can't see network shares or use excange whitout if I manually set in
> NIC
> adapter TCP/IP settings WINS server address. I have used WINS in because
> browsing is usually problen whitout it.
>
> Physically workstations are out of my reach, all over the country.
> DHCP-server is firewall. How can I implemet this VPN without manually
> change
> dynamic TCP/IP setting to use WINS server?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Juha

Bill,
You said, "A remote user usually can't browse if it doesn't have the
correct WINS server address. It needs WINS to resolve names to IP
addresses."

I just started learning Windows networking from an Osborn MCSE study
guide. In the section on installing the DHCP server service, right
after setting up scope clients to use DNS it says, "If your
organization is still supporting older, legacy clients and servers
that require NetBIOS name resolution and you are using WINS, you can
enter the IP address of your WINS servers and click Add and Next."

This makes it sound like WINS has been obsoleted by DNS but your
statement suggests that this conclusion is incorrect. I think this is
an important point so I hope you can help clear up my confusion.
Bob

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 11:52:54 +1100, "Bill Grant"
<not.available@online> wrote:

> Is the SBS server configured to use WINS? Usually the VPN client gets the
>WINS server address which is configured on the VPN server.
>
> A remote user usually can't browse if it doesn't have the correct WINS
>server address. It needs WINS to resolve names to IP addresses. A remote
>user can't use broadcasts for this, because they don't cross the WAN link.
>
>"Juha" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news:46549F1E-7305-4391-81DA-(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Hi
>>
>> I have clients connecting SBS server with VPN SW client. They receive
>> message that they are connected to domain. They can ping the server.
>> However,
>> they can't see network shares or use excange whitout if I manually set in
>> NIC
>> adapter TCP/IP settings WINS server address. I have used WINS in because
>> browsing is usually problen whitout it.
>>
>> Physically workstations are out of my reach, all over the country.
>> DHCP-server is firewall. How can I implemet this VPN without manually
>> change
>> dynamic TCP/IP setting to use WINS server?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Juha
>

That is a popular misconception. The important bit, which you quote, is
support for legacy systems (like NT or Samba).

In addition, many applications require Netbios names and the computer
browser service. You may find that your shared printers or your anti-virus
software rely on this, and without WINS support it will fail in a routed
network or a WAN. It can operate without WINS on a single segment, because
broadcasts can do the job of resolving Netbios names..

"Bob Simon" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Bill,
> You said, "A remote user usually can't browse if it doesn't have the
> correct WINS server address. It needs WINS to resolve names to IP
> addresses."
>
> I just started learning Windows networking from an Osborn MCSE study
> guide. In the section on installing the DHCP server service, right
> after setting up scope clients to use DNS it says, "If your
> organization is still supporting older, legacy clients and servers
> that require NetBIOS name resolution and you are using WINS, you can
> enter the IP address of your WINS servers and click Add and Next."
>
> This makes it sound like WINS has been obsoleted by DNS but your
> statement suggests that this conclusion is incorrect. I think this is
> an important point so I hope you can help clear up my confusion.
> Bob
>
> On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 11:52:54 +1100, "Bill Grant"
> <not.available@online> wrote:
>
>> Is the SBS server configured to use WINS? Usually the VPN client gets
>> the
>>WINS server address which is configured on the VPN server.
>>
>> A remote user usually can't browse if it doesn't have the correct WINS
>>server address. It needs WINS to resolve names to IP addresses. A remote
>>user can't use broadcasts for this, because they don't cross the WAN link.
>>
>>"Juha" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>news:46549F1E-7305-4391-81DA-(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> I have clients connecting SBS server with VPN SW client. They receive
>>> message that they are connected to domain. They can ping the server.
>>> However,
>>> they can't see network shares or use excange whitout if I manually set
>>> in
>>> NIC
>>> adapter TCP/IP settings WINS server address. I have used WINS in because
>>> browsing is usually problen whitout it.
>>>
>>> Physically workstations are out of my reach, all over the country.
>>> DHCP-server is firewall. How can I implemet this VPN without manually
>>> change
>>> dynamic TCP/IP setting to use WINS server?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Juha
>>
>

So, if there are no legacy computers but only Windows 2003 servers and
XP clients, can all NetBIOS names be resolved by DNS?


On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 10:43:29 +1100, "Bill Grant"
<not.available@online> wrote:

> That is a popular misconception. The important bit, which you quote, is
>support for legacy systems (like NT or Samba).
>
> In addition, many applications require Netbios names and the computer
>browser service. You may find that your shared printers or your anti-virus
>software rely on this, and without WINS support it will fail in a routed
>network or a WAN. It can operate without WINS on a single segment, because
>broadcasts can do the job of resolving Netbios names..
>
>"Bob Simon" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news:(E-Mail Removed).. .
>> Bill,
>> You said, "A remote user usually can't browse if it doesn't have the
>> correct WINS server address. It needs WINS to resolve names to IP
>> addresses."
>>
>> I just started learning Windows networking from an Osborn MCSE study
>> guide. In the section on installing the DHCP server service, right
>> after setting up scope clients to use DNS it says, "If your
>> organization is still supporting older, legacy clients and servers
>> that require NetBIOS name resolution and you are using WINS, you can
>> enter the IP address of your WINS servers and click Add and Next."
>>
>> This makes it sound like WINS has been obsoleted by DNS but your
>> statement suggests that this conclusion is incorrect. I think this is
>> an important point so I hope you can help clear up my confusion.
>> Bob
>>
>> On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 11:52:54 +1100, "Bill Grant"
>> <not.available@online> wrote:
>>
>>> Is the SBS server configured to use WINS? Usually the VPN client gets
>>> the
>>>WINS server address which is configured on the VPN server.
>>>
>>> A remote user usually can't browse if it doesn't have the correct WINS
>>>server address. It needs WINS to resolve names to IP addresses. A remote
>>>user can't use broadcasts for this, because they don't cross the WAN link.
>>>
>>>"Juha" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>news:46549F1E-7305-4391-81DA-(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> I have clients connecting SBS server with VPN SW client. They receive
>>>> message that they are connected to domain. They can ping the server.
>>>> However,
>>>> they can't see network shares or use excange whitout if I manually set
>>>> in
>>>> NIC
>>>> adapter TCP/IP settings WINS server address. I have used WINS in because
>>>> browsing is usually problen whitout it.
>>>>
>>>> Physically workstations are out of my reach, all over the country.
>>>> DHCP-server is firewall. How can I implemet this VPN without manually
>>>> change
>>>> dynamic TCP/IP setting to use WINS server?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Juha
>>>
>>
>

No, DNS cannot resolve Netbios names without WINS. They are different and
incompatible systems. WINS is a "flat" database. All machines using a WINS
server must have unique names. DNS is a heirachical system and names can be
reused. fred.mydomain.com is not the same machine as fred.sales.mydomain.com
, but WINS would complain about a duplicate name, because it only uses
"fred".

Integrating WINS and DNS is possible (and beyond the scope of a
newsgroup post) but it is just that - integration. DNS cannot do it alone. A
WINS server must exist fot the DNS server to integrate with (which is why
the DHCP server asks for the WINS server IP address to use).

In theory a W2k/W2k3 network with only W2k/XP clients can operate
without WINS. In practice, you almost always find that something doesn't
work, because it depends on Netbios names or the computer browser service
(which is an NT legacy service using Netbios names).

Netbios names include a 16th character which can define special
functions (like 1B for the master browser and 1C for a domain controller).
These cannot be handled by DNS. AD is integrated with DNS and uses DNS to
access domain resources. NT used Netbios special names for that.

"Bob Simon" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> So, if there are no legacy computers but only Windows 2003 servers and
> XP clients, can all NetBIOS names be resolved by DNS?
>
>
> On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 10:43:29 +1100, "Bill Grant"
> <not.available@online> wrote:
>
>> That is a popular misconception. The important bit, which you quote, is
>>support for legacy systems (like NT or Samba).
>>
>> In addition, many applications require Netbios names and the computer
>>browser service. You may find that your shared printers or your anti-virus
>>software rely on this, and without WINS support it will fail in a routed
>>network or a WAN. It can operate without WINS on a single segment, because
>>broadcasts can do the job of resolving Netbios names..
>>
>>"Bob Simon" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>news:(E-Mail Removed). ..
>>> Bill,
>>> You said, "A remote user usually can't browse if it doesn't have the
>>> correct WINS server address. It needs WINS to resolve names to IP
>>> addresses."
>>>
>>> I just started learning Windows networking from an Osborn MCSE study
>>> guide. In the section on installing the DHCP server service, right
>>> after setting up scope clients to use DNS it says, "If your
>>> organization is still supporting older, legacy clients and servers
>>> that require NetBIOS name resolution and you are using WINS, you can
>>> enter the IP address of your WINS servers and click Add and Next."
>>>
>>> This makes it sound like WINS has been obsoleted by DNS but your
>>> statement suggests that this conclusion is incorrect. I think this is
>>> an important point so I hope you can help clear up my confusion.
>>> Bob
>>>
>>> On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 11:52:54 +1100, "Bill Grant"
>>> <not.available@online> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Is the SBS server configured to use WINS? Usually the VPN client gets
>>>> the
>>>>WINS server address which is configured on the VPN server.
>>>>
>>>> A remote user usually can't browse if it doesn't have the correct
>>>> WINS
>>>>server address. It needs WINS to resolve names to IP addresses. A remote
>>>>user can't use broadcasts for this, because they don't cross the WAN
>>>>link.
>>>>
>>>>"Juha" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>>news:46549F1E-7305-4391-81DA-(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>> Hi
>>>>>
>>>>> I have clients connecting SBS server with VPN SW client. They receive
>>>>> message that they are connected to domain. They can ping the server.
>>>>> However,
>>>>> they can't see network shares or use excange whitout if I manually set
>>>>> in
>>>>> NIC
>>>>> adapter TCP/IP settings WINS server address. I have used WINS in
>>>>> because
>>>>> browsing is usually problen whitout it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Physically workstations are out of my reach, all over the country.
>>>>> DHCP-server is firewall. How can I implemet this VPN without manually
>>>>> change
>>>>> dynamic TCP/IP setting to use WINS server?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Juha
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

Bill,
Thanks!

I now see that my previous questions have missed the essential point.
This is not really about DNS and WINS servers, it's about DNS names
and NetBIOS names. Would it be correct to summarize the current
situation this way? "Microsoft is moving away from NetBIOS names in
favor of DNS names but this transition is incomplete."

Also, does Network Neighborhood depend on the computer browser service
you mentioned? I think NN is a great feature and would not want to
give it up. I presume from your previous answer that it is not
possible to configure browser to function using only DNS, right?
Bob


On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 17:35:45 +1100, "Bill Grant"
<not.available@online> wrote:

> No, DNS cannot resolve Netbios names without WINS. They are different and
>incompatible systems. WINS is a "flat" database. All machines using a WINS
>server must have unique names. DNS is a heirachical system and names can be
>reused. fred.mydomain.com is not the same machine as fred.sales.mydomain.com
>, but WINS would complain about a duplicate name, because it only uses
>"fred".
>
> Integrating WINS and DNS is possible (and beyond the scope of a
>newsgroup post) but it is just that - integration. DNS cannot do it alone. A
>WINS server must exist fot the DNS server to integrate with (which is why
>the DHCP server asks for the WINS server IP address to use).
>
> In theory a W2k/W2k3 network with only W2k/XP clients can operate
>without WINS. In practice, you almost always find that something doesn't
>work, because it depends on Netbios names or the computer browser service
>(which is an NT legacy service using Netbios names).
>
> Netbios names include a 16th character which can define special
>functions (like 1B for the master browser and 1C for a domain controller).
>These cannot be handled by DNS. AD is integrated with DNS and uses DNS to
>access domain resources. NT used Netbios special names for that.
>
>"Bob Simon" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news:(E-Mail Removed).. .
>> So, if there are no legacy computers but only Windows 2003 servers and
>> XP clients, can all NetBIOS names be resolved by DNS?
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 10:43:29 +1100, "Bill Grant"
>> <not.available@online> wrote:
>>
>>> That is a popular misconception. The important bit, which you quote, is
>>>support for legacy systems (like NT or Samba).
>>>
>>> In addition, many applications require Netbios names and the computer
>>>browser service. You may find that your shared printers or your anti-virus
>>>software rely on this, and without WINS support it will fail in a routed
>>>network or a WAN. It can operate without WINS on a single segment, because
>>>broadcasts can do the job of resolving Netbios names..
>>>
>>>"Bob Simon" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>news:(E-Mail Removed) ...
>>>> Bill,
>>>> You said, "A remote user usually can't browse if it doesn't have the
>>>> correct WINS server address. It needs WINS to resolve names to IP
>>>> addresses."
>>>>
>>>> I just started learning Windows networking from an Osborn MCSE study
>>>> guide. In the section on installing the DHCP server service, right
>>>> after setting up scope clients to use DNS it says, "If your
>>>> organization is still supporting older, legacy clients and servers
>>>> that require NetBIOS name resolution and you are using WINS, you can
>>>> enter the IP address of your WINS servers and click Add and Next."
>>>>
>>>> This makes it sound like WINS has been obsoleted by DNS but your
>>>> statement suggests that this conclusion is incorrect. I think this is
>>>> an important point so I hope you can help clear up my confusion.
>>>> Bob
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 11:52:54 +1100, "Bill Grant"
>>>> <not.available@online> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Is the SBS server configured to use WINS? Usually the VPN client gets
>>>>> the
>>>>>WINS server address which is configured on the VPN server.
>>>>>
>>>>> A remote user usually can't browse if it doesn't have the correct
>>>>> WINS
>>>>>server address. It needs WINS to resolve names to IP addresses. A remote
>>>>>user can't use broadcasts for this, because they don't cross the WAN
>>>>>link.
>>>>>
>>>>>"Juha" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>>>news:46549F1E-7305-4391-81DA-(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have clients connecting SBS server with VPN SW client. They receive
>>>>>> message that they are connected to domain. They can ping the server.
>>>>>> However,
>>>>>> they can't see network shares or use excange whitout if I manually set
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> NIC
>>>>>> adapter TCP/IP settings WINS server address. I have used WINS in
>>>>>> because
>>>>>> browsing is usually problen whitout it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Physically workstations are out of my reach, all over the country.
>>>>>> DHCP-server is firewall. How can I implemet this VPN without manually
>>>>>> change
>>>>>> dynamic TCP/IP setting to use WINS server?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Juha
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

That is about right. Yes, NN depends on the computer browser service which
uses Netbios names. There is not really a replacement for the browser
service in a DNS only setup.

"Bob Simon" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Bill,
> Thanks!
>
> I now see that my previous questions have missed the essential point.
> This is not really about DNS and WINS servers, it's about DNS names
> and NetBIOS names. Would it be correct to summarize the current
> situation this way? "Microsoft is moving away from NetBIOS names in
> favor of DNS names but this transition is incomplete."
>
> Also, does Network Neighborhood depend on the computer browser service
> you mentioned? I think NN is a great feature and would not want to
> give it up. I presume from your previous answer that it is not
> possible to configure browser to function using only DNS, right?
> Bob
>
>
> On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 17:35:45 +1100, "Bill Grant"
> <not.available@online> wrote:
>
>> No, DNS cannot resolve Netbios names without WINS. They are different
>> and
>>incompatible systems. WINS is a "flat" database. All machines using a WINS
>>server must have unique names. DNS is a heirachical system and names can
>>be
>>reused. fred.mydomain.com is not the same machine as
>>fred.sales.mydomain.com
>>, but WINS would complain about a duplicate name, because it only uses
>>"fred".
>>
>> Integrating WINS and DNS is possible (and beyond the scope of a
>>newsgroup post) but it is just that - integration. DNS cannot do it alone.
>>A
>>WINS server must exist fot the DNS server to integrate with (which is why
>>the DHCP server asks for the WINS server IP address to use).
>>
>> In theory a W2k/W2k3 network with only W2k/XP clients can operate
>>without WINS. In practice, you almost always find that something doesn't
>>work, because it depends on Netbios names or the computer browser service
>>(which is an NT legacy service using Netbios names).
>>
>> Netbios names include a 16th character which can define special
>>functions (like 1B for the master browser and 1C for a domain controller).
>>These cannot be handled by DNS. AD is integrated with DNS and uses DNS to
>>access domain resources. NT used Netbios special names for that.
>>
>>"Bob Simon" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>news:(E-Mail Removed). ..
>>> So, if there are no legacy computers but only Windows 2003 servers and
>>> XP clients, can all NetBIOS names be resolved by DNS?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 10:43:29 +1100, "Bill Grant"
>>> <not.available@online> wrote:
>>>
>>>> That is a popular misconception. The important bit, which you quote,
>>>> is
>>>>support for legacy systems (like NT or Samba).
>>>>
>>>> In addition, many applications require Netbios names and the
>>>> computer
>>>>browser service. You may find that your shared printers or your
>>>>anti-virus
>>>>software rely on this, and without WINS support it will fail in a routed
>>>>network or a WAN. It can operate without WINS on a single segment,
>>>>because
>>>>broadcasts can do the job of resolving Netbios names..
>>>>
>>>>"Bob Simon" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>>news:(E-Mail Removed) m...
>>>>> Bill,
>>>>> You said, "A remote user usually can't browse if it doesn't have the
>>>>> correct WINS server address. It needs WINS to resolve names to IP
>>>>> addresses."
>>>>>
>>>>> I just started learning Windows networking from an Osborn MCSE study
>>>>> guide. In the section on installing the DHCP server service, right
>>>>> after setting up scope clients to use DNS it says, "If your
>>>>> organization is still supporting older, legacy clients and servers
>>>>> that require NetBIOS name resolution and you are using WINS, you can
>>>>> enter the IP address of your WINS servers and click Add and Next."
>>>>>
>>>>> This makes it sound like WINS has been obsoleted by DNS but your
>>>>> statement suggests that this conclusion is incorrect. I think this is
>>>>> an important point so I hope you can help clear up my confusion.
>>>>> Bob
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 11:52:54 +1100, "Bill Grant"
>>>>> <not.available@online> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Is the SBS server configured to use WINS? Usually the VPN client
>>>>>> gets
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>WINS server address which is configured on the VPN server.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A remote user usually can't browse if it doesn't have the correct
>>>>>> WINS
>>>>>>server address. It needs WINS to resolve names to IP addresses. A
>>>>>>remote
>>>>>>user can't use broadcasts for this, because they don't cross the WAN
>>>>>>link.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Juha" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:46549F1E-7305-4391-81DA-(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have clients connecting SBS server with VPN SW client. They
>>>>>>> receive
>>>>>>> message that they are connected to domain. They can ping the server.
>>>>>>> However,
>>>>>>> they can't see network shares or use excange whitout if I manually
>>>>>>> set
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> NIC
>>>>>>> adapter TCP/IP settings WINS server address. I have used WINS in
>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>> browsing is usually problen whitout it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Physically workstations are out of my reach, all over the country.
>>>>>>> DHCP-server is firewall. How can I implemet this VPN without
>>>>>>> manually
>>>>>>> change
>>>>>>> dynamic TCP/IP setting to use WINS server?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Juha
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>