Why Can't I run two DSL lines in the same CAT5E cable??

There are two DSL lines on my property and they both work fine but
each on each side of the yard.

I decided to run them together in a single CAT5E cable to my two DSL
modems using 4 wires of one DSL line and 4 wires for the other one.

One line works perfect until I connect the other 4 wires for the 2n
line then each DSL line dies! I can connect one or the other but not
both. I would like to know why?

Sure I can run two separate CAT5E cables and wire them to 568A or B
standards but would I dont see why I couldnt run each DSL line in the
same cable?

Thanks!
Thomas Redman
Los Angeles, CA

On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 18:29:27 -0700, Tom <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

This question has nothing to do with wireless.
You might get a better answer in a DSL related newsgroup.

>There are two DSL lines on my property and they both work fine but
>each on each side of the yard.
>
>I decided to run them together in a single CAT5E cable to my two DSL
>modems using 4 wires of one DSL line and 4 wires for the other one.
>
>One line works perfect until I connect the other 4 wires for the 2n
>line then each DSL line dies! I can connect one or the other but not
>both. I would like to know why?

Think about how the DSL lines run from the CO (central office) to your
MPOE (minimum point of entry) or demarc. You have at least 10,000 ft
of twisted pair, unshielded wire, in the same bundle, going between
the CO and your MPOE. Yet, you seem to be having a problem running
perhaps a few feet of wire between the MPOE and your DSL modems. The
telco can make it work over 10,000ft, and you can't over a few
additional feet. My guess(tm) is that you did something wrong with
the wiring, splitter, DSL filters, color code, terminations,
connectors, or whatever is between the MPOE and your DSL modems.

>Sure I can run two separate CAT5E cables and wire them to 568A or B
>standards but would I dont see why I couldnt run each DSL line in the
>same cable?

Duz it work when you run two seperate cables?

Incidentally, I suggest 568B color coding to avoid insanity. Most of
the patch cables come wired 568B (even though 568A is the official
standard).

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558 (E-Mail Removed)
# http://802.11junk.com (E-Mail Removed)
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

Tom wrote:
> There are two DSL lines on my property and they both work fine but
> each on each side of the yard.
>
> I decided to run them together in a single CAT5E cable to my two DSL
> modems using 4 wires of one DSL line and 4 wires for the other one.
>
clarify -
are these the raw DSL lines coming from the demarc ?
ie - there are just 2-wires -
with the high freq DSL signal riding on the same pair as your telco voice
line.

SO - I'm not exactly sure what "4 wires" you are talking about,
unless you just extended the usual blue + blu/wht and the org + org/wht, etc

On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 20:06:33 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 18:29:27 -0700, Tom <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>This question has nothing to do with wireless.
>You might get a better answer in a DSL related newsgroup.
>
>>There are two DSL lines on my property and they both work fine but
>>each on each side of the yard.
>>
>>I decided to run them together in a single CAT5E cable to my two DSL
>>modems using 4 wires of one DSL line and 4 wires for the other one.
>>
>>One line works perfect until I connect the other 4 wires for the 2n
>>line then each DSL line dies! I can connect one or the other but not
>>both. I would like to know why?
>
>Think about how the DSL lines run from the CO (central office) to your
>MPOE (minimum point of entry) or demarc. You have at least 10,000 ft
>of twisted pair, unshielded wire, in the same bundle, going between
>the CO and your MPOE. Yet, you seem to be having a problem running
>perhaps a few feet of wire between the MPOE and your DSL modems. The
>telco can make it work over 10,000ft, and you can't over a few
>additional feet. My guess(tm) is that you did something wrong with
>the wiring, splitter, DSL filters, color code, terminations,
>connectors, or whatever is between the MPOE and your DSL modems.
>
>>Sure I can run two separate CAT5E cables and wire them to 568A or B
>>standards but would I dont see why I couldnt run each DSL line in the
>>same cable?
>
>Duz it work when you run two seperate cables?
>
>Incidentally, I suggest 568B color coding to avoid insanity. Most of
>the patch cables come wired 568B (even though 568A is the official
>standard).


Exactly the telco runs over a thousand feet of twisted wire and I'm
only running 400 ft across my property and I have this problem.

I am going with two CAT5E cables as that solves the problem but
was just trying to figure out what could be the problem.

Thank you!
Tom

Tom <(E-Mail Removed)> fired this volley in
news:(E-Mail Removed):

> There are two DSL lines on my property and they both work fine but
> each on each side of the yard.
>
> I decided to run them together in a single CAT5E cable to my two DSL
> modems using 4 wires of one DSL line and 4 wires for the other one.

Tom, my DSL comes in on one twisted pair, not four wires.

I think you're mis-wiring something.

LLoyd

> Sure I can run two separate CAT5E cables and wire them to 568A or B
> standards but would I dont see why I couldnt run each DSL line in the
> same cable?

DSL needs only one pair, not two. That's two wires, not four, for each DSL
set up.

You should be able to run this type of setup with absolutely no trouble at
all. If you have trouble then it's either bad wiring or bad wire.

There are 4 twisted pairs in a CAT5 bundle. Each based on a color:
blue/blue-white, orange/orange-white, green/green-white, brown/brown-white.
You should be able to put one DSL pair on, say, blue and the other on orange
(or whatever combo you'd like). Just make sure you're sticking with one
color/color-white pair for each line. Do not split pairs and do not
combine pairs.

Test your pairs and make sure you don't have a short somewhere. That would
certainly cause the sort of trouble you're seeing.

-Bill Kearney

Tom wrote:
> I dont see why I couldnt run each DSL line in the
> same cable

You certainly can.

IF..IF...you indeed have TWO telco dial-tone/DSL circuits where you have
two separate accounts from the telco with two telephone numbers and two
DSL assignments, THEN you can extend them up to several hundred feet.

Is that really what you have going on there? If it is, then you have
a wiring problem.

Keep the first telco circuit on the White/Blue pairs and second circuit
on the white-orange pairs and it will work.

On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 21:04:13 -0700, Tom <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Exactly the telco runs over a thousand feet of twisted wire and I'm
>only running 400 ft across my property and I have this problem.
>
>I am going with two CAT5E cables as that solves the problem but
>was just trying to figure out what could be the problem.

400ft of CAT5 should not be a problem. I suggest you try an
experiment first. Take a 500ft roll of CAT5 and just connect the ends
to the MPOE and the cable modem(s). The idea is to test the system
before laying the cable. It also avoids any problems with noise
pickup (fluorescent ballasts, xfomers, motors, etc). If it works on
the spool, then try rolling it out. It *SHOULD* work.

Also, various modems have internal diagnostics which include S/N
ratio, line levels, and error rate. Try it with the modem plugged
into the MPOE (no CAT5), and then again at the end of the CAT5 spool.
Also, I've seen CAT5 with broken wires in the spool, but only once.
Check continuity with an ohms guesser.

Of course there's the obvious problem of pair selection. Don't create
a wiring maze where you end up with split pairs. You only need two
pairs out of the 4 pair cable. Don't double up pairs as that will
increase the crosstalk.

That which is most obviously correct, beyond any need of checking, is
usually the problem. This should be easy (famous last words).

--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
> Why two pairs, Jeff? My DSL comes in on a POTS line on one pair.

The OP appears to indicate he has two DSL circuits.

On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 17:17:19 -0000, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
<lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:

>Jeff Liebermann <(E-Mail Removed)> fired this volley in
>news:(E-Mail Removed) :
>
>> Of course there's the obvious problem of pair selection. Don't create
>> a wiring maze where you end up with split pairs. You only need two
>> pairs out of the 4 pair cable. Don't double up pairs as that will
>> increase the crosstalk.

>Why two pairs, Jeff? My DSL comes in on a POTS line on one pair.
>LLoyd

Yep. However, he has two phone lines. (See title of article).
One pair for each phone line.



--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558