WDS Bridges? New tack

Trying desperately to keep up, and running as fast as I can, herewith two
questions, with preamble...

Reading the wikipedia entry on wireless bridges apparently originated by
Jeff Lieberman, it appears a WDS bridge may accomplish my objective, which
is:

See and select from various wifi APs with my wifi card-enabled laptop using
some retransmission device at a higher location to enhance what my laptop
could otherwise do by itself if it were in range of said APs.

This device has to be free-standing, no physical connection between my
laptop or the APs. Ideally outdoor protected, but that can be worked out.
Power can be provided; ideally 12V, but that can be worked out. Whether by
my laptop's XP-provided, or the device-provided software, or some other
means, my computer must be able to identify and select from various APs,
whether of the same manufacture as the bridge or not.

Ideally, said device will have an amp in it to boost the signal, or have the
ability to daisychain an amp between the output and the antenna; somewhere
between 200 and 1000mw seems common.

I don't want to buy any more non-proven-to-purpose gear. I've got plenty of
money and agonizingly more than plenty of time invested in non-productive
solutions.

Question 1: Does a WDS bridge accomplish my end?

Question 2: And, if so, what do users of any of those have to recommend as
the choice of make and model?

Thanks.

Skip

--

The Society for the Preservation of Tithesis commends your ebriated
and scrutible use of delible and defatigable, which are gainly, sipid
and couth. We are gruntled and consolate that you have the ertia and
eptitude to choose such putably pensible tithesis, which we parage.

>>Stamp out Sesquipedalianism<<

"Skip Gundlach" <skipgundlach at gmail dotcom> wrote in message
news:37a54$43ecbb48$a227fd9e$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Trying desperately to keep up, and running as fast as I can, herewith two
> questions, with preamble...
>
> Reading the wikipedia entry on wireless bridges apparently originated by
> Jeff Lieberman, it appears a WDS bridge may accomplish my objective, which
> is:
>
> See and select from various wifi APs with my wifi card-enabled laptop
> using some retransmission device at a higher location to enhance what my
> laptop could otherwise do by itself if it were in range of said APs.
>
> This device has to be free-standing, no physical connection between my
> laptop or the APs. Ideally outdoor protected, but that can be worked out.
> Power can be provided; ideally 12V, but that can be worked out. Whether
> by my laptop's XP-provided, or the device-provided software, or some other
> means, my computer must be able to identify and select from various APs,
> whether of the same manufacture as the bridge or not.
>
> Ideally, said device will have an amp in it to boost the signal, or have
> the ability to daisychain an amp between the output and the antenna;
> somewhere between 200 and 1000mw seems common.
>
> I don't want to buy any more non-proven-to-purpose gear. I've got plenty
> of money and agonizingly more than plenty of time invested in
> non-productive solutions.
>
> Question 1: Does a WDS bridge accomplish my end?
>
> Question 2: And, if so, what do users of any of those have to recommend
> as the choice of make and model?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Skip
>
> --
>
> The Society for the Preservation of Tithesis commends your ebriated
> and scrutible use of delible and defatigable, which are gainly, sipid
> and couth. We are gruntled and consolate that you have the ertia and
> eptitude to choose such putably pensible tithesis, which we parage.
>
>>>Stamp out Sesquipedalianism<<
>
Apologies - I've had two glasses of wine (albeit large ones) and now I only
speak English (but both UK & US varieties).

I have a Linksys WRT54G v2 as my house's gateway router/WiFI AP, connected
to my cable broadband supply.

At the other end of my house, I have a second WRT54G, v1.

The router pair are in WDS running DD-WRT. Any WiFi device in range in my
property can connect to the WLAN.

Simple.

Hi, and thanks for the response. Your English is entirely acceptable :{))

----- Original Message -----
From: "__spc__" <s p a m t i m e @ n t l w o r l d . c o m>
> "Skip Gundlach" <skipgundlach at gmail dotcom> wrote in message
> news:37a54$43ecbb48$a227fd9e$(E-Mail Removed)...

(clip preamble)

>> Question 1: Does a WDS bridge accomplish my end?
>>
>> Question 2: And, if so, what do users of any of those have to recommend
>> as the choice of make and model?

> Apologies - I've had two glasses of wine (albeit large ones) and now I
> only speak English (but both UK & US varieties).
>
> I have a Linksys WRT54G v2 as my house's gateway router/WiFI AP, connected
> to my cable broadband supply.
>
> At the other end of my house, I have a second WRT54G, v1.
>
> The router pair are in WDS running DD-WRT. Any WiFi device in range in my
> property can connect to the WLAN.
>
> Simple.

So, "you" (the v2 connected to the ISP) are the equivalent of one of the APs
I might see, and I infer that I'd be seeing the v1, as the "translator"
letting my laptop talk (transparently) to your v2 which, if I were close
enough, I could do without the v1.(?)

However, I can't see the v2, in the usual location of my laptop. Thus the
separate device (your v1) needed. However, restating what you've said in my
situation's parameters, the v1 would be my high-mounted item and the v2
would be some AP within range of the v1. If the v1 weren't inherently
powerful enough, I could add amplification and antenna improvement.(?) My
laptop could see the v1, and v1 could see the v2.

The 64000 dollar question (does anyone remember that show??), I guess, would
be if the v1 can see not only your v2, but also other non-linksys APs in
your neighborhood (just to introduce a potential problem, as it seems most
manufacturers' equipment will cooperate, but not necessarily with someone
else'), say, for example, DLink v3, Belkin v4, Senao v5, and others. If
it's (only) the same maker or no-go, it doesn't meet the parameters. If it
sees several, but can't determine which to associate with, or
force-associates with (say) only the strongest, it doesn't meet the
parameters. If it has to specify in advance (without having those available
shown) a certain SSID/MAC, etc., it doesn't meet the parameters.

I'm not trying to be difficult - just precise, so please forgive me if this
comes across in any other way than seeking info. It would thrill me to no
end, given where I've been so far, if this were, in fact, the answer.

Thanks for the followup.

L8R

Skip

--

The Society for the Preservation of Tithesis commends your ebriated
and scrutible use of delible and defatigable, which are gainly, sipid
and couth. We are gruntled and consolate that you have the ertia and
eptitude to choose such putably pensible tithesis, which we parage.

>>Stamp out Sesquipedalianism<<

On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 11:11:49 -0500, "Skip Gundlach" <skipgundlach at
gmail dotcom> wrote:

>See and select from various wifi APs with my wifi card-enabled laptop using
>some retransmission device at a higher location to enhance what my laptop
>could otherwise do by itself if it were in range of said APs.

Various AP's??? Are these your AP's or do they belong to other people
and organizations? Never mind the politics, it's the setup that will
be a problem. WDS requires that the MAC addresses of all WDS bridges
that are participating in this adventure be entered into the WDS
configuration page. It's easy enough for you to enter everyone elses
MAC address into your WDS bridge. However, convincing the local
yaught club to do the same will be difficult (assuming they have WDS
compatible hardware).

What methinks you're trying to do is build a range extender from the
top of your mast, which I vaguely recall from a previous adventure. Is
this correct?

If so, methinks a repeater would be more useful. The real benifit of
a WDS bridge is that you can connect both wired and wireless devices
to the WDS bridge. You don't need or want the wired device
connections, just the wireless. That's an ordinary repeater.

The problem with repeaters is that the protocol for repeater operation
was not clearly defined in 802.11b specs. The result is an assortment
of proprietary and marginal implimentation. Chances are good that a
repeater will work, but only if everything is from the same chipset
(not necessarily from the same manufacturer). Any semblence to a crap
shoot is strictly coincidental.

>This device has to be free-standing, no physical connection between my
>laptop or the APs. Ideally outdoor protected, but that can be worked out.
>Power can be provided; ideally 12V, but that can be worked out. Whether by
>my laptop's XP-provided, or the device-provided software, or some other
>means, my computer must be able to identify and select from various APs,
>whether of the same manufacture as the bridge or not.

Well, permit me to ignore the power problem for now (because my office
resembles a train station on Fridays with people coming and going
continuously). I can do the calculations if you would like for some
number of watts of power necessary to run a solar wi-fi repeater.
There are also examples on the web. For example:
http://www.phaster.com/golden_hill_free_web/
http://www.zakongroup.com/technology...eless_network/
Search Google for "solar power wi-fi".

To the best of my memory, there's no such switching device that will
easily allow to you select a remote access point through a repeater.
However, there are a few ugly tricks that come close. If you setup
the repeater with an SSID=ANY the repeater will regurgitate literally
any SSID. All you need to do is change the SSID on your laptop and it
will connect to the remote system with that SSID. Just one big catch.
The repeater will repeat packets from literally any radio include
plenty that you don't want to hear or deal with. The amount of
traffic that is generated can be truely monumental. I was involved in
shutting down two such abominations in the downtown area specifically
because of all the interference they were creating. Not recommended
unless you have good defensive ordinance, a vicious dog, and an
attorney on permanent retainer.

>Ideally, said device will have an amp in it to boost the signal, or have the
>ability to daisychain an amp between the output and the antenna; somewhere
>between 200 and 1000mw seems common.

It's not bad enough that you want to generate huge amounts of useless
traffic. Now you also want to build an alligator (big mouth, small
ears)? I suggest you forget about using excessive power until you're
certain that you're going to need it. Altitude and antenna gain are
far more effective than power because they improve the path in BOTH
directions. Alligators only work in one direction.

>I don't want to buy any more non-proven-to-purpose gear. I've got plenty of
>money and agonizingly more than plenty of time invested in non-productive
>solutions.

Money is not a good substitute for engineering. I can't offer
anything that's been on the market long enought to be proven. In
fact, I can't even guarantee that any of the commodity hardware has
been around long enough to be proven. As soon as the product has been
proven to be functional and reliable, it gets replaced by a cheaper
equivalent, that has to fight the learning curve from scratch. Welcome
customer tested product development.

Fast, reliable, cheap. Pick two.

>Question 1: Does a WDS bridge accomplish my end?

Nope. Inability to enter the MAC address of your WDS bridge in the
terminating access point's setup is a problem. Also, no guarantee
that the terminating access point is WDS compatible or will work with
a random wi-fi repeater.

>Question 2: And, if so, what do users of any of those have to recommend as
>the choice of make and model?

How much money did you say you wanted to burn...er...spend? If you
want quality, then buy Cisco, 3com, Symbol, Intermec, Sonicwall, and
other boxes that sell for about $400 and up. However, I don't think
any of their products will do what you want. At best, something might
be thrown together out of a dual radio access point.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558 (E-Mail Removed)
# http://802.11junk.com (E-Mail Removed)
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS