Warning about LLU

LLU* (Local Loop Unbundling) ISPs present the customer with a very
attractive cost if they take up the option of subscribing to Internet and
voice services using their own network based on LLU. Customers however are
not told that, because the service is on the service provider's own network,
if they wish to transfer their service to an alternative supplier later it
is likely to cost them as much as £150 or more


http://tinyurl.com/2edtuw

"Uncle Nobby" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:45ef59cf.0@entanet...
> LLU* (Local Loop Unbundling) ISPs present the customer with a very
> attractive cost if they take up the option of subscribing to Internet and
> voice services using their own network based on LLU. Customers however are
> not told that, because the service is on the service provider's own
> network, if they wish to transfer their service to an alternative supplier
> later it is likely to cost them as much as £150 or more
>
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2edtuw
>

What are you basing that figure on? BT charge to switch from an LLU ISP
back to an ADSL one is £45+VAT, most ISPs pass this on at cost. I can't
imagine moving to another LLU supplier or cable costs any more.

"steeler" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:OGIHh.45801$(E-Mail Removed). ..
>
> "Uncle Nobby" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:45ef59cf.0@entanet...
>> LLU* (Local Loop Unbundling) ISPs present the customer with a very
>> attractive cost if they take up the option of subscribing to Internet and
>> voice services using their own network based on LLU. Customers however
>> are not told that, because the service is on the service provider's own
>> network, if they wish to transfer their service to an alternative
>> supplier later it is likely to cost them as much as £150 or more
>>
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/2edtuw
>>
>
> What are you basing that figure on? BT charge to switch from an LLU ISP
> back to an ADSL one is £45+VAT, most ISPs pass this on at cost. I can't
> imagine moving to another LLU supplier or cable costs any more.

The figures aren't mine, but from what I am aware is that you are not on the
BT IP stream network.
So if you change form a LLU to a non LLU supplier you have to pay for the
unhook from LLU and set up to BT IP stream, you can't do a straight migrate
hence the extra costs involved.

Uncle Nobby wrote:

> "steeler" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > "Uncle Nobby" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> >
> >> LLU* (Local Loop Unbundling) ISPs present the customer with a very
> >> attractive cost if they take up the option of subscribing to Internet and
> >> voice services using their own network based on LLU. Customers however
> >> are not told that, because the service is on the service provider's own
> >> network, if they wish to transfer their service to an alternative
> >> supplier later it is likely to cost them as much as £150 or more
> >>
> >>
> >> http://tinyurl.com/2edtuw
> >
> > What are you basing that figure on? BT charge to switch from an LLU ISP
> > back to an ADSL one is £45+VAT, most ISPs pass this on at cost. I can't
> > imagine moving to another LLU supplier or cable costs any more.
>
> The figures aren't mine, but from what I am aware is that you are not on the
> BT IP stream network.
> So if you change form a LLU to a non LLU supplier you have to pay for the
> unhook from LLU and set up to BT IP stream, you can't do a straight migrate
> hence the extra costs involved.

No.

The worst situation in the past was a cease and reprovide which costs about £47.
I've had an LLU MAC to move from Plusnet's LLU provider (Tiscali) back to a BT
based ISP and it went just fine.

The new Ofcom rules for migration mean AIUI that there should be no
restrictions. Not all ISPs accept LLU MACs though. You may have to settle for a
decent one instead of a cheap and nasty one.

You may of course find yourself locked into a long contract with an LLU
provided. The term "caveat emptor" covers that.

Graham

"Eeyore" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
>
> Uncle Nobby wrote:
>
>> "steeler" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> > "Uncle Nobby" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> >
>> >> LLU* (Local Loop Unbundling) ISPs present the customer with a very
>> >> attractive cost if they take up the option of subscribing to Internet
>> >> and
>> >> voice services using their own network based on LLU. Customers however
>> >> are not told that, because the service is on the service provider's
>> >> own
>> >> network, if they wish to transfer their service to an alternative
>> >> supplier later it is likely to cost them as much as £150 or more
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> http://tinyurl.com/2edtuw
>> >
>> > What are you basing that figure on? BT charge to switch from an LLU
>> > ISP
>> > back to an ADSL one is £45+VAT, most ISPs pass this on at cost. I
>> > can't
>> > imagine moving to another LLU supplier or cable costs any more.
>>
>> The figures aren't mine, but from what I am aware is that you are not on
>> the
>> BT IP stream network.
>> So if you change form a LLU to a non LLU supplier you have to pay for the
>> unhook from LLU and set up to BT IP stream, you can't do a straight
>> migrate
>> hence the extra costs involved.
>
> No.

You may have had a good experience but from forums and broadband sites it
isn't typical.
I have seen where many ISP's wouldn't accept a MAC from a LLU, it may have
changed now with the new regulations.
I have read that changing from on IP stream provider to another was a simple
operation, however changing from LLU to IP stream isn't, relatively, hence
the cost.

On 08 Mar 2007, Eeyore <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>The new Ofcom rules for migration mean AIUI that there should be no
>restrictions. Not all ISPs accept LLU MACs though.

There's been (or will be, cannot remember the date of implementation) a
change such that a 'cease' has a fee attached, whereas it was free in
the years up to 2006. It makes sense, in a way, because it reverses
the 'activation' (though why they didn't just force the activation
to have a portion set aside for cancellation, and get interest on
it for all the years it will sit in a BTW account, I don't know!)

So now/in future a cease and new activation will cost something like
35 (+VAT?) + 35 (+VAT) (or whatever the figures are, not just 40+VAT
or a small migration fee, something like 11.00 +VAT, which many ISPs
absorb anyway).

NoNeedToKnow wrote:
> On 08 Mar 2007, Eeyore <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> The new Ofcom rules for migration mean AIUI that there should be no
>> restrictions. Not all ISPs accept LLU MACs though.
>
> There's been (or will be, cannot remember the date of implementation) a
> change such that a 'cease' has a fee attached, whereas it was free in
> the years up to 2006. It makes sense, in a way, because it reverses
> the 'activation' (though why they didn't just force the activation
> to have a portion set aside for cancellation, and get interest on
> it for all the years it will sit in a BTW account, I don't know!)
>
> So now/in future a cease and new activation will cost something like
> 35 (+VAT?) + 35 (+VAT) (or whatever the figures are, not just 40+VAT
> or a small migration fee, something like 11.00 +VAT, which many ISPs
> absorb anyway).

1st May.

"Uncle Nobby" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:45f0099c.0@entanet...
>
> "Eeyore" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>
>>
>> Uncle Nobby wrote:
>>
>>> "steeler" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>> > "Uncle Nobby" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>> >
>>> >> LLU* (Local Loop Unbundling) ISPs present the customer with a very
>>> >> attractive cost if they take up the option of subscribing to Internet
>>> >> and
>>> >> voice services using their own network based on LLU. Customers
>>> >> however
>>> >> are not told that, because the service is on the service provider's
>>> >> own
>>> >> network, if they wish to transfer their service to an alternative
>>> >> supplier later it is likely to cost them as much as £150 or more
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> http://tinyurl.com/2edtuw
>>> >
>>> > What are you basing that figure on? BT charge to switch from an LLU
>>> > ISP
>>> > back to an ADSL one is £45+VAT, most ISPs pass this on at cost. I
>>> > can't
>>> > imagine moving to another LLU supplier or cable costs any more.
>>>
>>> The figures aren't mine, but from what I am aware is that you are not on
>>> the
>>> BT IP stream network.
>>> So if you change form a LLU to a non LLU supplier you have to pay for
>>> the
>>> unhook from LLU and set up to BT IP stream, you can't do a straight
>>> migrate
>>> hence the extra costs involved.
>>
>> No.
>
> You may have had a good experience but from forums and broadband sites it
> isn't typical.
> I have seen where many ISP's wouldn't accept a MAC from a LLU, it may have
> changed now with the new regulations.
> I have read that changing from on IP stream provider to another was a
> simple operation, however changing from LLU to IP stream isn't,
> relatively, hence the cost.

I am not disagreeing with any of that. Merely that I believe that the
connection charge if they refuse the LLU MAC is around the £50 mark.

Uncle Nobby wrote:

> "Eeyore" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > Uncle Nobby wrote:
> >
> >> So if you change form a LLU to a non LLU supplier you have to pay for the
> >> unhook from LLU and set up to BT IP stream, you can't do a straight
> >> migrate hence the extra costs involved.
> >
> > No.
>
> You may have had a good experience

I wouldn't say that about my LLU connection !


> but from forums and broadband sites it isn't typical.
> I have seen where many ISP's wouldn't accept a MAC from a LLU

That's what I already said but you snipped it ! Why did you do that ?


> it may have changed now with the new regulations. I have read that changing
> from on IP stream provider to another was a simple operation, however changing
> from LLU to IP stream isn't, relatively, hence the cost.

Wrong. There's no difference at all. Provided your 'new' ISP accepts LLU MACS.
That excludes most of the shitty ones though. That may disappoint you since it
seems you want to have to have something to complain about.

Graham

NoNeedToKnow wrote:

> On 08 Mar 2007, Eeyore <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> >The new Ofcom rules for migration mean AIUI that there should be no
> >restrictions. Not all ISPs accept LLU MACs though.
>
> There's been (or will be, cannot remember the date of implementation) a
> change such that a 'cease' has a fee attached, whereas it was free in
> the years up to 2006. It makes sense, in a way, because it reverses
> the 'activation'

Do tell exactly what part of the word "sense" you had in mind when you typed
that !

Precisely why there should be *any* activation or cease fee puzzles me.

Since when did you have to pay for someone to stop providing anything ?

Graham