Want to start WISP

My townhome community is locked into one broadband service provider
that has unreliable service and terrible customer service. There are
over 300 units in this development. I did my homework and priced
dual/bonded T1 curcuits ranging from about 1K per month (3Mbps). I
have a place in mind outside the parimeter of this complex where I'd
like to mount an antenna.

I need to make a deal with a restaurant owner to mount an antenna on
their roof. What I'm thinking is to offer them free wireless internet
for their customers, and maybe some computer services at no charge.
Has anyone had experience in making such a deal? Or, what are some
popular alternatives? My townhome HOA won't permit me to install a T1
circuit or antennas outside.

Thanks for any insight you may have.

Rick

"Rick Magoon" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
> My townhome community is locked into one broadband service provider
> that has unreliable service and terrible customer service. There are
> over 300 units in this development. I did my homework and priced
> dual/bonded T1 curcuits ranging from about 1K per month (3Mbps). I
> have a place in mind outside the parimeter of this complex where I'd
> like to mount an antenna.
>
> I need to make a deal with a restaurant owner to mount an antenna on
> their roof. What I'm thinking is to offer them free wireless internet
> for their customers, and maybe some computer services at no charge.
> Has anyone had experience in making such a deal? Or, what are some
> popular alternatives? My townhome HOA won't permit me to install a T1
> circuit or antennas outside.
>
> Thanks for any insight you may have.
>
> Rick


alt.internet.wireless is more focused on consumer devices.
Try your WISP questions here.
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/dslalt

Rick Magoon wrote:

> My townhome community is locked into one broadband service provider
> that has unreliable service and terrible customer service. There are
> over 300 units in this development. I did my homework and priced
> dual/bonded T1 curcuits ranging from about 1K per month (3Mbps). I
> have a place in mind outside the parimeter of this complex where I'd
> like to mount an antenna.
>
> I need to make a deal with a restaurant owner to mount an antenna on
> their roof. What I'm thinking is to offer them free wireless internet
> for their customers, and maybe some computer services at no charge.
> Has anyone had experience in making such a deal? Or, what are some
> popular alternatives? My townhome HOA won't permit me to install a T1
> circuit or antennas outside.
>
> Thanks for any insight you may have.
>
> Rick

Seems a reasonable offer for your access point location, I'd make sure
you get to advertise in his business who the provider is and how they
can contact you. But a couple of points come to mind. First, if the HOA
won't allow antennas, how are you going to have customers? Second, you
didn't mention your whereabouts and your Google posting headers don't
reveal much, but in the United States a HOA cannot prohibit *customers*
from having reasonable outdoor WISP antennas. The law I'm referring to
is discussed at:
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

Other concerns would be, do you have the skillset to install and operate
this WISP? Why do you think there'll be enough customers for it to be
profitable for you?

Rôgêr <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<dNqdnT5ZLY98H9_cRVn-(E-Mail Removed)>...
> Rick Magoon wrote:
>
> > My townhome community is locked into one broadband service provider
> > that has unreliable service and terrible customer service. There are
> > over 300 units in this development. I did my homework and priced
> > dual/bonded T1 curcuits ranging from about 1K per month (3Mbps). I
> > have a place in mind outside the parimeter of this complex where I'd
> > like to mount an antenna.
> >
> > I need to make a deal with a restaurant owner to mount an antenna on
> > their roof. What I'm thinking is to offer them free wireless internet
> > for their customers, and maybe some computer services at no charge.
> > Has anyone had experience in making such a deal? Or, what are some
> > popular alternatives? My townhome HOA won't permit me to install a T1
> > circuit or antennas outside.
> >
> > Thanks for any insight you may have.
> >
> > Rick
>
> Seems a reasonable offer for your access point location, I'd make sure
> you get to advertise in his business who the provider is and how they
> can contact you. But a couple of points come to mind. First, if the HOA
> won't allow antennas, how are you going to have customers? Second, you
> didn't mention your whereabouts and your Google posting headers don't
> reveal much, but in the United States a HOA cannot prohibit *customers*
> from having reasonable outdoor WISP antennas. The law I'm referring to
> is discussed at:
> http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html
>
> Other concerns would be, do you have the skillset to install and operate
> this WISP? Why do you think there'll be enough customers for it to be
> profitable for you?

I'm located in the United States, more specifically south of Denver
Colorado. The FCC guidelines link you posted cleared many questions I
had. It appears the town home and apartment residents have exclusive
use of their balconies. I need to research NLOS type antennas that
would be permissible for this application. Any insight would be
appreciated. The access point will be about 1-2 miles away from any
given resident.

I have about 300-500 potential residents that are currently locked
into one service provider. I'm not too concerned about subscriber
numbers, as this will most likely not be an issue if service is
reliable. I may even start with a T1 running around $500 per month
and seeking about 20 subscribers, then upgrade over time. I'm not too
concerned about making a profit right away, but would like to break
even soon after implementation.

My experience is mostly with higher end of OSI model and large SAN/NAS
architecture and implementations. Although I've never been too
involved with layer 1 through 3 of IP networking (and radio), I feel
I'm poised to pick this up quickly. I do plan on seeking a wireless
consultant to clarify some questions and help with a site survey.

Thanks for your help.

Rick

"Rick Magoon" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
> My townhome community is locked into one broadband service provider
> that has unreliable service and terrible customer service. There are
> over 300 units in this development. I did my homework and priced
> dual/bonded T1 curcuits ranging from about 1K per month (3Mbps). I
> have a place in mind outside the parimeter of this complex where I'd
> like to mount an antenna.
>
> I need to make a deal with a restaurant owner to mount an antenna on
> their roof. What I'm thinking is to offer them free wireless internet
> for their customers, and maybe some computer services at no charge.
> Has anyone had experience in making such a deal? Or, what are some
> popular alternatives? My townhome HOA won't permit me to install a T1
> circuit or antennas outside.
>
> Thanks for any insight you may have.
>
> Rick
That is very interesting Rick, please keep us posted in THIS newsgroup as it
is of interest to some of us in here.

I am considering a similar plan in a small rural Texas community that is
flat, not many trees and no DSL/Cable.

So I and maybe some others would appreciate you keeping us up to date with
your progress.

Thanks,

There are many ways to do what you are trying to do.

the question is how much do you have to spend

--
wifi_hunte
brought to you by http://www.wifi-forum.com

On 10 Sep 2004 19:36:39 -0700, (E-Mail Removed) (Rick Magoon) wrote:

>I did my homework and priced
>dual/bonded T1 curcuits ranging from about 1K per month (3Mbps). I
>have a place in mind outside the parimeter of this complex where I'd
>like to mount an antenna.

>On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 18:11:29 GMT, "bobe" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>That is very interesting Rick, please keep us posted in THIS newsgroup as it
>is of interest to some of us in here.
>
>I am considering a similar plan in a small rural Texas community that is
>flat, not many trees and no DSL/Cable.

Here is an excellent effort in Colorado. The OP's neighborhood.
http://www.rric.net/

They used wireless to microwave the data link to the area, and
installed a private DSLAM for the community.

All pretty ordinary stuff for the wireless link, breezecom stuff.
You will be surprised how far your bandwidth goes. Dual bonded T-1
lines would serve a pile of customers.

Rick Magoon wrote:
<snip>
> I'm located in the United States, more specifically south of Denver
> Colorado. The FCC guidelines link you posted cleared many questions I
> had. It appears the town home and apartment residents have exclusive
> use of their balconies. I need to research NLOS type antennas that
> would be permissible for this application. Any insight would be
> appreciated. The access point will be about 1-2 miles away from any
> given resident.

For NLOS, there's a couple of good choices but are a bit spendy.
WaveRider and Alvarion have 900MHz units on the market. Probably some
others too. Both inside and outside antennas are available. There's some
OFDM equipment being advertised as NLOS, I'm a bit skeptical but haven't
tried it yet. Maybe you could use a cheaper WiFi access point and CPE
for the customers facing toward your tower and 900MHz for the ones that
are obstructed ... just a thought. It pays to test. I have a few
customers that are totally NLOS with WiFi equipment. It's not supposed
to work, but it does anyway.

Rôgêr <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<C6Odna7_dqf6d97cRVn-(E-Mail Removed)>...
> Rick Magoon wrote:
> <snip>
> > I'm located in the United States, more specifically south of Denver
> > Colorado. The FCC guidelines link you posted cleared many questions I
> > had. It appears the town home and apartment residents have exclusive
> > use of their balconies. I need to research NLOS type antennas that
> > would be permissible for this application. Any insight would be
> > appreciated. The access point will be about 1-2 miles away from any
> > given resident.
>
> For NLOS, there's a couple of good choices but are a bit spendy.
> WaveRider and Alvarion have 900MHz units on the market. Probably some
> others too. Both inside and outside antennas are available. There's some
> OFDM equipment being advertised as NLOS, I'm a bit skeptical but haven't
> tried it yet. Maybe you could use a cheaper WiFi access point and CPE
> for the customers facing toward your tower and 900MHz for the ones that
> are obstructed ... just a thought. It pays to test. I have a few
> customers that are totally NLOS with WiFi equipment. It's not supposed
> to work, but it does anyway.

Both those products look very good. The Alvarion BreezeMax product
that scales to WiMAX looks more appealing, but price may be the
factor. It appears to run at 3.5 MHz. The WaveRider also looks good
at 900MHz, a local ISP called Suburban Broadband uses these devices in
the area. Now, I wish I can test different devices without paying up
front. I also notice the CPE is expensive for WaveRider, I wonder
what BreezeMax is. Suburban Broadband is charging $300 per unit for
WaveRider CPE. Also, would anyone know what would be a good,
inexpensive billing management system?

Thanks.

Rick

"(E-Mail Removed)" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed)>. ..
> On 10 Sep 2004 19:36:39 -0700, (E-Mail Removed) (Rick Magoon) wrote:
>
> >I did my homework and priced
> >dual/bonded T1 curcuits ranging from about 1K per month (3Mbps). I
> >have a place in mind outside the parimeter of this complex where I'd
> >like to mount an antenna.
>
> >On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 18:11:29 GMT, "bobe" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> >That is very interesting Rick, please keep us posted in THIS newsgroup as it
> >is of interest to some of us in here.
> >
> >I am considering a similar plan in a small rural Texas community that is
> >flat, not many trees and no DSL/Cable.
>
> Here is an excellent effort in Colorado. The OP's neighborhood.
> http://www.rric.net/
>
> They used wireless to microwave the data link to the area, and
> installed a private DSLAM for the community.
>
> All pretty ordinary stuff for the wireless link, breezecom stuff.
> You will be surprised how far your bandwidth goes. Dual bonded T-1
> lines would serve a pile of customers.


How many customers would a Dual-Bonded T1 serve? I was thinking of 50
customers safely. Also, what would be the technical support overhead
for 50 customers?

I found a location, and it looks like a deal is looming. It's a
restaurant that's a taller point than our development. There are
about 500 households here locked into a crappy service. I'm pretty
sure I'm looking at 900mHz or other frequency that doesn't require
license. I'm thinking to start with T1... then upgrading after
signing on certain amount of customers or bandwidth utilization.

I checked out the WaveRider at 900mHz, and it looks very good but
pricey. Does anyone have opinions about this unit?
http://www.waverider.com/

One property manager reported she wants about 800 per month for roof
lease and facility fees. She claims this is market rate.... Does
this seem high?

Any additional help/insight is always welcome....

I'll continue to post my findings.

Thanks.

Rick