Wanadoo / BT broadand problem - no ADSL carrier?

I've got a problem with broadband from Wanadoo: there appears to be no ADSL
carrier. It's probably partly a political demarcation problem as to how much
is Wanadoo's and how much is BT's responsibility.


A customer ordered broadband from Wanadoo over a BT line. He opted for
wires-only because I was getting him a router.

Using this router (Dlink G604) or my own Netgear DG834GT, the ADSL light
flashes continuously, the line speed in the config screen says 0 kbps (ie
it's not picking up the ADSL carrier) and the Netgear's log shows perpetual
LCP is down / LCP is coming up cycles. Because no carrier is detected, there
is no attenutation or noise margin information listed.

To the best of the customer's knowledge, there is only one BT socket on this
line. It has a fax machine and the router connected to it via microfilter.
I've tried with the fax machine disconnected: just router -> microfilter ->
BT master socket.

Wanadoo are being a little less helpful than I suspect they would be if it
was their own equipment (modem or router). However they've got BT to do line
checks which come back with no fault found. BT have also checked the line
from an analogue point of view.

I've swapped out:

- ADSL lead
- microfilter
- router

Wanadoo tried to escalate the problem to BT but I've just heard that BT
responded by saying that since their tests came back with no fault found,
they'd probably charge if the customer wanted an on-site visit by one of
their (BT's) broadband experts.

I'm bit at a loss as to how to proceed. I understand that any request for
assistance for a broadband BT engineer to call has to be initiated by the
ISP rather than the customer. Is this the case?



What makes the problem worse is that I did all the setup and investigation
work back in June and left it that Wanadoo would initiate a BT visit, then I
heard no more from the customer till today, so I thought that everything
must have been sorted by BT a long time ago. The customer's apparently been
away on holiday a lot this summer and is only now revisiting the problem. If
it was me, I'd be champing at the bit every few days, but he seems to be
more laid-back!

In article <43443cd7$0$15061$(E-Mail Removed)>,
Martin Underwood says...
> To the best of the customer's knowledge, there is only one BT socket on this
> line. It has a fax machine and the router connected to it via microfilter.
> I've tried with the fax machine disconnected: just router -> microfilter ->
> BT master socket.
>
first things first

have you tried it with a different filter?

FR

"Martin Underwood" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:43443cd7$0$15061$(E-Mail Removed)...
> I've got a problem with broadband from Wanadoo: there appears to be no
> ADSL
> carrier. It's probably partly a political demarcation problem as to how
> much
> is Wanadoo's and how much is BT's responsibility.
>
>
> A customer ordered broadband from Wanadoo over a BT line. He opted for
> wires-only because I was getting him a router.
>
> Using this router (Dlink G604) or my own Netgear DG834GT, the ADSL light
> flashes continuously, the line speed in the config screen says 0 kbps (ie
> it's not picking up the ADSL carrier) and the Netgear's log shows
> perpetual
> LCP is down / LCP is coming up cycles. Because no carrier is detected,
> there is no attenutation or noise margin information listed.
>
> To the best of the customer's knowledge, there is only one BT socket on
> this
> line. It has a fax machine and the router connected to it via microfilter.
> I've tried with the fax machine disconnected: just router ->
> microfilter ->
> BT master socket.
>
> Wanadoo are being a little less helpful than I suspect they would be if it
> was their own equipment (modem or router). However they've got BT to do
> line checks which come back with no fault found. BT have also checked the
> line from an analogue point of view.
>
> I've swapped out:
>
> - ADSL lead
> - microfilter
> - router
>
> Wanadoo tried to escalate the problem to BT but I've just heard that BT
> responded by saying that since their tests came back with no fault found,
> they'd probably charge if the customer wanted an on-site visit by one of
> their (BT's) broadband experts.
>
> I'm bit at a loss as to how to proceed. I understand that any request for
> assistance for a broadband BT engineer to call has to be initiated by the
> ISP rather than the customer. Is this the case?
>
>
>
> What makes the problem worse is that I did all the setup and investigation
> work back in June and left it that Wanadoo would initiate a BT visit, then
> I
> heard no more from the customer till today, so I thought that everything
> must have been sorted by BT a long time ago. The customer's apparently
> been
> away on holiday a lot this summer and is only now revisiting the problem.
> If
> it was me, I'd be champing at the bit every few days, but he seems to be
> more laid-back!
>
>
>
>

Have you tried just a standard adsl modem on thsi line.

Big Brian wrote in
fjX0f.74070$(E-Mail Removed):

> "Martin Underwood" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:43443cd7$0$15061$(E-Mail Removed)...

>> Using this router (Dlink G604) or my own Netgear DG834GT, the ADSL
>> light flashes continuously, the line speed in the config screen says
>> 0 kbps (ie it's not picking up the ADSL carrier) and the Netgear's
>> log shows perpetual LCP is down / LCP is coming up cycles. Because no
>> carrier is detected, there is no attenutation or noise margin information
>> listed.
>
> Have you tried just a standard adsl modem on thsi line.

No. I don't have a standard ADSL modem to try. I might get myself one for
just this sort of testing.

Flying Rat wrote in
(E-Mail Removed):

> In article <43443cd7$0$15061$(E-Mail Removed)>,
> Martin Underwood says...
>> To the best of the customer's knowledge, there is only one BT socket
>> on this line. It has a fax machine and the router connected to it
>> via microfilter. I've tried with the fax machine disconnected: just
>> router -> microfilter -> BT master socket.
>>
> first things first
>
> have you tried it with a different filter?

Yes: that's one of the things that I said I'd swapped out. I tried with I
think three different filters: the one that came with the Dlink, the one
that came with my Netgear and another one that I had used for connecting one
of my phones. All to no avail.

I might try with no filter at all - just a BT-to-RJ11 adaptor and the
RJ11-RJ11 ADSL cable that came with the router. That way there should be no
losses in a filter.

I wonder if the signal attenuation is so great that its insufficient to be
detected by the router - but the initial line test should have picked this
up. BT's line checker is saying "Our initial test on your line indicates
that you may be able to have Broadband from BT with speeds up to 512Kb,
which is up to 10 times faster than dial-up. At the moment, your telephone
line is unable to support our 2Mb speed broadband package. Also, due to the
length of your line, an engineer visit may be required to set up your
broadband service." I think (but I may be wrong) it used to say that the
line was OK up to 1 Mb, with no caveat about an engineed visit being
necessary.


When BT check the line remotely can they actually check wiring right from
the exchange to the connected device (router or modem) or are they really
just checking that the exchange equipment is wokring OK?

Martin Underwood wrote:
> Flying Rat wrote in
> (E-Mail Removed):
>
>> In article <43443cd7$0$15061$(E-Mail Removed)>,
>> Martin Underwood says...
>>> To the best of the customer's knowledge, there is only one BT socket
>>> on this line. It has a fax machine and the router connected to it
>>> via microfilter. I've tried with the fax machine disconnected: just
>>> router -> microfilter -> BT master socket.
>>>
>> first things first
>>
>> have you tried it with a different filter?
>
> Yes: that's one of the things that I said I'd swapped out. I tried
> with I think three different filters: the one that came with the
> Dlink, the one that came with my Netgear and another one that I had
> used for connecting one of my phones. All to no avail.
>
> I might try with no filter at all - just a BT-to-RJ11 adaptor and the
> RJ11-RJ11 ADSL cable that came with the router. That way there should
> be no losses in a filter.
>
> I wonder if the signal attenuation is so great that its insufficient
> to be detected by the router - but the initial line test should have
> picked this up. BT's line checker is saying "Our initial test on your
> line indicates that you may be able to have Broadband from BT with
> speeds up to 512Kb, which is up to 10 times faster than dial-up. At
> the moment, your telephone line is unable to support our 2Mb speed
> broadband package. Also, due to the length of your line, an engineer
> visit may be required to set up your broadband service." I think (but
> I may be wrong) it used to say that the line was OK up to 1 Mb, with
> no caveat about an engineed visit being necessary.
>
>
> When BT check the line remotely can they actually check wiring right
> from the exchange to the connected device (router or modem) or are
> they really just checking that the exchange equipment is wokring OK?

Yes, the only way a line can be tested for ADSL is by getting a BT
engineer to site & testing with their equipment (it is also possible to
do this remorely BUT it is not so accurate)..

It's becoming more & more regular for an ISP to drag it's feet in
regards to getting BT to visit, but it is the only way to get it sorted
if you've checked everything at your friends. One thing they don't have
a dial up alarm modem (will need to get the feed filtered) or an
external hardwired bell (which will need to be disconnected) do they??

Martin Underwood wrote:
> Flying Rat wrote in
> (E-Mail Removed):
>
>> In article <43443cd7$0$15061$(E-Mail Removed)>,
>> Martin Underwood says...
>>> To the best of the customer's knowledge, there is only one BT socket
>>> on this line. It has a fax machine and the router connected to it
>>> via microfilter. I've tried with the fax machine disconnected: just
>>> router -> microfilter -> BT master socket.
>>>
>> first things first
>>
>> have you tried it with a different filter?
>
> Yes: that's one of the things that I said I'd swapped out. I tried with I
> think three different filters: the one that came with the Dlink, the one
> that came with my Netgear and another one that I had used for connecting one
> of my phones. All to no avail.
>
> I might try with no filter at all - just a BT-to-RJ11 adaptor and the
> RJ11-RJ11 ADSL cable that came with the router. That way there should be no
> losses in a filter.
>
> I wonder if the signal attenuation is so great that its insufficient to be
> detected by the router - but the initial line test should have picked this
> up. BT's line checker is saying "Our initial test on your line indicates
> that you may be able to have Broadband from BT with speeds up to 512Kb,
> which is up to 10 times faster than dial-up. At the moment, your telephone
> line is unable to support our 2Mb speed broadband package. Also, due to the
> length of your line, an engineer visit may be required to set up your
> broadband service." I think (but I may be wrong) it used to say that the
> line was OK up to 1 Mb, with no caveat about an engineed visit being
> necessary.
>
>
> When BT check the line remotely can they actually check wiring right from
> the exchange to the connected device (router or modem) or are they really
> just checking that the exchange equipment is wokring OK?
>
>

If the master socket has the removable section of faceplate have you
tried pluging in to the test socket behind it and checked if there are
any extensions wired off the face plate.

If you are using a known good router/cable/microfilter combination and
there is nothing else internally wired to the line and no signal at
the test socket then I would think it unlikely a BT visit will incur a
charge.

JP

John P wrote in
(E-Mail Removed):

> If the master socket has the removable section of faceplate have you
> tried pluging in to the test socket behind it and checked if there are
> any extensions wired off the face plate.

I'll take the faceplate off and confirm that there's no other wiring
connected. If the socket has no half-height faceplate, it's not a master
socket, is it, so that will be a good way to confirm that it's the one and
only socket on the line - which is what the customer believes.

> If you are using a known good router/cable/microfilter combination and
> there is nothing else internally wired to the line and no signal at
> the test socket then I would think it unlikely a BT visit will incur a
> charge.

Hope not - for the customer's sake.


BTW, what's the legal position about removing the faceplate on a master
socket? Is that strictly speaking something that only BT are allowed to do?

Martin Underwood wrote:
> John P wrote in
> (E-Mail Removed):
>
>> If the master socket has the removable section of faceplate have you
>> tried pluging in to the test socket behind it and checked if there are
>> any extensions wired off the face plate.
>
> I'll take the faceplate off and confirm that there's no other wiring
> connected. If the socket has no half-height faceplate, it's not a master
> socket, is it, so that will be a good way to confirm that it's the one and
> only socket on the line - which is what the customer believes.

Not true - older master sockets can have a one piece faceplate.

>
>> If you are using a known good router/cable/microfilter combination and
>> there is nothing else internally wired to the line and no signal at
>> the test socket then I would think it unlikely a BT visit will incur a
>> charge.
>
> Hope not - for the customer's sake.
>
>
> BTW, what's the legal position about removing the faceplate on a master
> socket? Is that strictly speaking something that only BT are allowed to do?
>
>

Removing the half plate type is OK - thats the reason they are like
that to give the customer a place to do their own wiring from.

JP

On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 21:10:35 GMT, "Big Brian"
<(E-Mail Removed)> scrawled:

>Have you tried just a standard adsl modem on thsi line.
>
A router has a standard modem built in. You mean a USB modem?
--
Stuart @ SJW Electrical

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