VoIP over ADSL WAN Network Configuration. How?

Hi there!

I was wondering, how does the network configuration (OSI) of a WAN
ADSL-link that includes VoIP and Data simultaneously looks like. I am
sure there are many possibilities, but I am interested on how does
Internet Providers usualy build it.
Do they use one extra ATM-PVC for VoIP?
Is there an extra PPPoE session for VoIP?
Is there a ADSL "fast path" link needed for VoIP?
Or nothing of above is needed, and all works fine on the same ATM-PVC,
PPPoE session and on a interlieved ADSL-path? If so, how can you ensure
VoIP-QoS working on TCP/IP with other concurrent data services?

Could anyone give me a help?

Thanks in advance!

Alexandre


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"Alexandre Heil Franca" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:2b279522095033c22d634c38c9a53cba.18582@mygate .mailgate.org...
> Hi there!
>
> I was wondering, how does the network configuration (OSI) of a WAN
> ADSL-link that includes VoIP and Data simultaneously looks like. I am
> sure there are many possibilities, but I am interested on how does
> Internet Providers usualy build it.
> Do they use one extra ATM-PVC for VoIP?
> Is there an extra PPPoE session for VoIP?
> Is there a ADSL "fast path" link needed for VoIP?
> Or nothing of above is needed, and all works fine on the same ATM-PVC,
> PPPoE session and on a interlieved ADSL-path? If so, how can you ensure
> VoIP-QoS working on TCP/IP with other concurrent data services?


You're being overcomplicated. You simply plug your voip servers into your
network. It is handy to QoS down the broadband line from both ends but it
will work fine if you don't as long as you don't cane the line.

Regards
Andrew

Alexandre Heil Franca wrote:

> Hi there!
>
> I was wondering, how does the network configuration (OSI) of a WAN
> ADSL-link that includes VoIP and Data simultaneously looks like. I am
> sure there are many possibilities, but I am interested on how does
> Internet Providers usualy build it.
> Do they use one extra ATM-PVC for VoIP?
> Is there an extra PPPoE session for VoIP?
> Is there a ADSL "fast path" link needed for VoIP?
> Or nothing of above is needed, and all works fine on the same ATM-PVC,
> PPPoE session and on a interlieved ADSL-path? If so, how can you ensure
> VoIP-QoS working on TCP/IP with other concurrent data services?
>
> Could anyone give me a help?
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Alexandre

You are being overly complicated as andrew said.

Its simply a method of digitizing microphone and sending
it to a remote end. There are standards for that as well.
You can buy VoIP phones that just does that.
Alternatively you can use PC and software.
There are service providers that connect you between
users on the net with directories. One of many is skpe
which has around 25 million users.
Their niche is to do the interconnecting between users
free of charge with PC / microphone software so if you have
broadband and your friend has broadband, neither pays - but
at the same time allow real outgoing national and international
calls at totally low ridiculous prices
http://www.skype.com/products/skypeo...all_rates.html
except of course to those idiotic countries where
they haven't fully opened up the telecom infrastructure
to private competition and lower costs.

"7" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:bYLNd.9392$(E-Mail Removed) k
>
> You are being overly complicated as andrew said.
>
> Its simply a method of digitizing microphone and sending
> it to a remote end. There are standards for that as well.
> You can buy VoIP phones that just does that.
> Alternatively you can use PC and software.
> There are service providers that connect you between
> users on the net with directories. One of many is skpe
> which has around 25 million users.
> Their niche is to do the interconnecting between users
> free of charge with PC / microphone software so if you have
> broadband and your friend has broadband, neither pays - but
> at the same time allow real outgoing national and international
> calls at totally low ridiculous prices
> http://www.skype.com/products/skypeo...all_rates.html
> except of course to those idiotic countries where
> they haven't fully opened up the telecom infrastructure
> to private competition and lower costs.


Hi! Thanks, for you reply.

Yes I may be trying to make thinks too complicated, but I think you
could be doing exactely the opposit...
So simple isn't it eihter. Telcos optimize its infrastructure to offer
VoIP in high quality (as a substitute for POTS), and if they don't care
about QoS in the last mile, it could bring no advantage.
If you start a download concurring to your speech, how does the network
garanttes you get no interruptions or jtter in your voice stream?
Is there any kind of QoS at IP or Ethernet level?

Alexandre


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

"Alexandre Heil Franca" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:dc83e7754d083fbbfe23ae811a54975d.18582@mygate .mailgate.org...
> "7" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:bYLNd.9392$(E-Mail Removed) k

> Yes I may be trying to make thinks too complicated, but I think you
> could be doing exactely the opposit...
> So simple isn't it eihter. Telcos optimize its infrastructure to offer
> VoIP in high quality (as a substitute for POTS), and if they don't care
> about QoS in the last mile, it could bring no advantage.

In general we prioritise VOIP over certain routes within our network. I
don't think any of the residential VOIP providers are selling this as a high
quality thing -- more as a cost saver. The quality of most codecs used for
VoB is around that of GSM and subject to the odd bit of jitter and daleks
from time to time.

> If you start a download concurring to your speech, how does the network
> garanttes you get no interruptions or jtter in your voice stream?
> Is there any kind of QoS at IP or Ethernet level?

QoS on the upstream is down to the end user. We cannot prioritise their
traffic for them. QoS on the downstream is enabled at our end.

Regards
Andrew

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Alexandre Heil Franca wrote:

> "7" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:bYLNd.9392$(E-Mail Removed) k
>>
>> You are being overly complicated as andrew said.
>>
>> Its simply a method of digitizing microphone and sending
>> it to a remote end. There are standards for that as well.
>> You can buy VoIP phones that just does that.
>> Alternatively you can use PC and software.
>> There are service providers that connect you between
>> users on the net with directories. One of many is skpe
>> which has around 25 million users.
>> Their niche is to do the interconnecting between users
>> free of charge with PC / microphone software so if you have
>> broadband and your friend has broadband, neither pays - but
>> at the same time allow real outgoing national and international
>> calls at totally low ridiculous prices
>> http://www.skype.com/products/skypeo...all_rates.html
>> except of course to those idiotic countries where
>> they haven't fully opened up the telecom infrastructure
>> to private competition and lower costs.
>
>
> Hi! Thanks, for you reply.
>
> Yes I may be trying to make thinks too complicated, but I think you
> could be doing exactely the opposit...
> So simple isn't it eihter. Telcos optimize its infrastructure to offer
> VoIP in high quality (as a substitute for POTS), and if they don't care
> about QoS in the last mile, it could bring no advantage.
> If you start a download concurring to your speech, how does the network
> garanttes you get no interruptions or jtter in your voice stream?
> Is there any kind of QoS at IP or Ethernet level?
>
> Alexandre

Again you are complicating the issues.
ADSL is getting bigger in terms of the data bandwidth all the time.
You can get hardware codecs down to 16kbit rates. Software I'm not
sure of but even if it was 64kbit then thats same as telephone quality
and since broadband gives you more than that, where do you start having
to worry about issues like speed? It all happens in real time
and if you are sensible about it (i.e. not downloading
from ten different sites whilst using VoIP) then you won't get
into trouble.

Andrew Crane wrote:
> "Alexandre Heil Franca" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:dc83e7754d083fbbfe23ae811a54975d.18582@mygate .mailgate.org...

[snip]

>> If you start a download concurring to your speech, how does the
>> network garanttes you get no interruptions or jtter in your voice
>> stream?
>> Is there any kind of QoS at IP or Ethernet level?
>
> QoS on the upstream is down to the end user. We cannot prioritise
> their traffic for them. QoS on the downstream is enabled at our end.

IME unless you're really hammering the line with a massive download during
a call, there isn't usually much of a problem. Certainly using Sipgate
(with an external ATA, not a softphone) I've carried on a 15 minute
conversation to a US landline while downloading several smallish (no
larger than 4 to 5MB) files without any degradation to the quality of the
phone call, which was excellent throughout.

Ivor

Andrew Crane wrote:

>
> QoS on the upstream is down to the end user. We cannot prioritise their
> traffic for them. QoS on the downstream is enabled at our end.

Do you mean you do QoS downstream per customer for voip or within your
network generally - as you say in your other post?

I noticed that my dabs value connexant PCI modem can do per cell QoS - if
only BT would allow another vpi/vci and do QoS at their end, things could
be quite nice.

Andy.