Vista not connecting through ADSL router to Orange broadband - possible MTU problems?

I'd be very grateful if someone could help me help a non-techy friend
out, who's desperate to get back online so she can finish her
coursework.
They live too far away to just drop by, so I'm doing it over the
phone.
Over the course of a three hour phone call, I established the
following:

She has Windows Vista Home Basic.
It is connected via a LAN cable to an Etec ADSL router.
It used to be connected via a USB modem (which is faulty and kept
crashing the PC)
She can get into the admin page of the router, which shows that it is
connected to the internet.
>From a command line on the PC, she can ping an IP address, for
example, BBC News on 212.58.226.29
The packets go fine.
If she types ping news.bbc.co.uk, it says it cannot find the server
If she types ping -l 1500 212.58.226.29 she gets 100% packet loss.
On the internet connection status, it says:

ipv4 connected
ipv6 limited

If she goes to the diagnostics, it says:
"The security policy settings on this computer might be blocking the
connection. The following policy might need to be adjusted to allow
windows to connect.
Policy provider: Windows firewall
Filter Name: query user
If the policy provider identified is windows firewall, click for
information about adjusting windows firewall settings
If a different policy provider has been identified, check the
providers document".

Insofar as the PC can talk to the router and the router can talk to
the internet and small packet pings work but bigger packets don't, I
thought it must be the MTU settings.
The router defaults were: mtu:1492 mru:1492 mss:1432
The router is running PPPoA on Orange broadband on the BT network I
believe.
I went and Googled extensively and found an alternative setting of
1420 in all boxes, which we applied and rebooted, but the result was
the same.
I then found these pages:
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/com...uy/cg1005.mspx
http://www.chris123nt.com/guides/5365/
http://tweakhound.com/vista/tweakguide/page_9.htm
In particular, the last two sites recommend disabling IPv6, which
makes sense as it was that which reported limited connectivity. So, we
made the box look like the "recommended" on on the tweakhound site,
and reset the mtu, mru and mss to default. Rebooted everything, but
again, pinging IP works, pinging IP with larger packets or by name
doesn't, and ip addresses in websites don't work.

To my limited experience, it seems a classic case of fragmented
packets and MTU problems. But having only used Vista for about 20
minutes, I'm now lost. We've been trying to resolve it since 8pm and
it's now coming up to midnight, so I'm really hoping one of you good
people can come up with a suggesting, bearing in mind that although
she's a bright lass, she's not a computer whizzkid, so registry edits
might be going a bit far.

Many many thanks.

"Jonathan" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...
> I'd be very grateful if someone could help me help a non-techy friend
> out, who's desperate to get back online so she can finish her
> coursework.
> They live too far away to just drop by, so I'm doing it over the
> phone.
> Over the course of a three hour phone call, I established the
> following:
>
> She has Windows Vista Home Basic.
> It is connected via a LAN cable to an Etec ADSL router.
> It used to be connected via a USB modem (which is faulty and kept
> crashing the PC)
> She can get into the admin page of the router, which shows that it is
> connected to the internet.
>>From a command line on the PC, she can ping an IP address, for
> example, BBC News on 212.58.226.29
> The packets go fine.
> If she types ping news.bbc.co.uk, it says it cannot find the server
> If she types ping -l 1500 212.58.226.29 she gets 100% packet loss.
> On the internet connection status, it says:
>
> ipv4 connected
> ipv6 limited
>
> If she goes to the diagnostics, it says:
> "The security policy settings on this computer might be blocking the
> connection. The following policy might need to be adjusted to allow
> windows to connect.
> Policy provider: Windows firewall
> Filter Name: query user
> If the policy provider identified is windows firewall, click for
> information about adjusting windows firewall settings
> If a different policy provider has been identified, check the
> providers document".
>
> Insofar as the PC can talk to the router and the router can talk to
> the internet and small packet pings work but bigger packets don't, I
> thought it must be the MTU settings.
> The router defaults were: mtu:1492 mru:1492 mss:1432
> The router is running PPPoA on Orange broadband on the BT network I
> believe.
> I went and Googled extensively and found an alternative setting of
> 1420 in all boxes, which we applied and rebooted, but the result was
> the same.
> I then found these pages:
> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/com...uy/cg1005.mspx
> http://www.chris123nt.com/guides/5365/
> http://tweakhound.com/vista/tweakguide/page_9.htm
> In particular, the last two sites recommend disabling IPv6, which
> makes sense as it was that which reported limited connectivity. So, we
> made the box look like the "recommended" on on the tweakhound site,
> and reset the mtu, mru and mss to default. Rebooted everything, but
> again, pinging IP works, pinging IP with larger packets or by name
> doesn't, and ip addresses in websites don't work.
>
> To my limited experience, it seems a classic case of fragmented
> packets and MTU problems. But having only used Vista for about 20
> minutes, I'm now lost. We've been trying to resolve it since 8pm and
> it's now coming up to midnight, so I'm really hoping one of you good
> people can come up with a suggesting, bearing in mind that although
> she's a bright lass, she's not a computer whizzkid, so registry edits
> might be going a bit far.

Disable the Windows firewall.
Ensure the DNS settings for the PC are the ISP DNS servers - or the
router IP if she doesn't know these.

It's a DNS problem - firewall or incorrect settings.

On 15 Jun, 00:00, "Alastair" <e...@address.invalid> wrote:

> Disable the Windows firewall.
> Ensure the DNS settings for the PC are the ISP DNS servers - or the
> router IP if she doesn't know these.
>
> It's a DNS problem - firewall or incorrect settings.

Yeah, but if that's the case, why won't it ping larger packets (when
mine will) and why won't it show web pages even when the IP address is
used instead of the domain name?
When domain name is used, it says the server cannot be found. But when
the IP address is used, it comes up with a blank page.
Which is what I had with MTU problems on another machine, but that was
cured just by resetting the router to default.
In this case, I know the router defaults work with XP, cos it's my old
router! But with Vista, it just won't work.

(E-Mail Removed) declared for all the world to hear...
> I'd be very grateful if someone could help me help a non-techy friend
> out, who's desperate to get back online so she can finish her
> coursework.
> They live too far away to just drop by, so I'm doing it over the
> phone.
> Over the course of a three hour phone call, I established the
> following:
>
> She has Windows Vista Home Basic.
> It is connected via a LAN cable to an Etec ADSL router.
> It used to be connected via a USB modem (which is faulty and kept
> crashing the PC)
> She can get into the admin page of the router, which shows that it is
> connected to the internet.
> >From a command line on the PC, she can ping an IP address, for
> example, BBC News on 212.58.226.29
> The packets go fine.
> If she types ping news.bbc.co.uk, it says it cannot find the server
> If she types ping -l 1500 212.58.226.29 she gets 100% packet loss.
> On the internet connection status, it says:
>
> ipv4 connected
> ipv6 limited
>
> If she goes to the diagnostics, it says:
> "The security policy settings on this computer might be blocking the
> connection. The following policy might need to be adjusted to allow
> windows to connect.
> Policy provider: Windows firewall
> Filter Name: query user
> If the policy provider identified is windows firewall, click for
> information about adjusting windows firewall settings
> If a different policy provider has been identified, check the
> providers document".
>
> Insofar as the PC can talk to the router and the router can talk to
> the internet and small packet pings work but bigger packets don't, I
> thought it must be the MTU settings.
> The router defaults were: mtu:1492 mru:1492 mss:1432
> The router is running PPPoA on Orange broadband on the BT network I
> believe.
> I went and Googled extensively and found an alternative setting of
> 1420 in all boxes, which we applied and rebooted, but the result was
> the same.
> I then found these pages:
> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/com...uy/cg1005.mspx
> http://www.chris123nt.com/guides/5365/
> http://tweakhound.com/vista/tweakguide/page_9.htm
> In particular, the last two sites recommend disabling IPv6, which
> makes sense as it was that which reported limited connectivity. So, we
> made the box look like the "recommended" on on the tweakhound site,
> and reset the mtu, mru and mss to default. Rebooted everything, but
> again, pinging IP works, pinging IP with larger packets or by name
> doesn't, and ip addresses in websites don't work.
>
> To my limited experience, it seems a classic case of fragmented
> packets and MTU problems. But having only used Vista for about 20
> minutes, I'm now lost. We've been trying to resolve it since 8pm and
> it's now coming up to midnight, so I'm really hoping one of you good
> people can come up with a suggesting, bearing in mind that although
> she's a bright lass, she's not a computer whizzkid, so registry edits
> might be going a bit far.

Can we try disabling windows firewall while we diagnose? WOuld also
check DNS is working ok.
--
Regards
Jon

"Jonathan" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...
> On 15 Jun, 00:00, "Alastair" <e...@address.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Disable the Windows firewall.
>> Ensure the DNS settings for the PC are the ISP DNS servers - or the
>> router IP if she doesn't know these.
>>
>> It's a DNS problem - firewall or incorrect settings.
>
> why won't it show web pages even when the IP address is
> used instead of the domain name?

HTTP 1.1?

"Jonathan" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...
> I'd be very grateful if someone could help me help a non-techy friend
> out, who's desperate to get back online so she can finish her
> coursework.
> They live too far away to just drop by, so I'm doing it over the
> phone.
> Over the course of a three hour phone call, I established the
> following:
>
> She has Windows Vista Home Basic.
> It is connected via a LAN cable to an Etec ADSL router.
> It used to be connected via a USB modem (which is faulty and kept
> crashing the PC)
> She can get into the admin page of the router, which shows that it is
> connected to the internet.
>>From a command line on the PC, she can ping an IP address, for
> example, BBC News on 212.58.226.29
> The packets go fine.
> If she types ping news.bbc.co.uk, it says it cannot find the server
> If she types ping -l 1500 212.58.226.29 she gets 100% packet loss.
> On the internet connection status, it says:
>
> ipv4 connected
> ipv6 limited
>
> If she goes to the diagnostics, it says:
> "The security policy settings on this computer might be blocking the
> connection. The following policy might need to be adjusted to allow
> windows to connect.
> Policy provider: Windows firewall
> Filter Name: query user
> If the policy provider identified is windows firewall, click for
> information about adjusting windows firewall settings
> If a different policy provider has been identified, check the
> providers document".
>
> Insofar as the PC can talk to the router and the router can talk to
> the internet and small packet pings work but bigger packets don't, I
> thought it must be the MTU settings.
> The router defaults were: mtu:1492 mru:1492 mss:1432
> The router is running PPPoA on Orange broadband on the BT network I
> believe.
> I went and Googled extensively and found an alternative setting of
> 1420 in all boxes, which we applied and rebooted, but the result was
> the same.
> I then found these pages:
> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/com...uy/cg1005.mspx
> http://www.chris123nt.com/guides/5365/
> http://tweakhound.com/vista/tweakguide/page_9.htm
> In particular, the last two sites recommend disabling IPv6, which
> makes sense as it was that which reported limited connectivity. So, we
> made the box look like the "recommended" on on the tweakhound site,
> and reset the mtu, mru and mss to default. Rebooted everything, but
> again, pinging IP works, pinging IP with larger packets or by name
> doesn't, and ip addresses in websites don't work.
>
> To my limited experience, it seems a classic case of fragmented
> packets and MTU problems. But having only used Vista for about 20
> minutes, I'm now lost. We've been trying to resolve it since 8pm and
> it's now coming up to midnight, so I'm really hoping one of you good
> people can come up with a suggesting, bearing in mind that although
> she's a bright lass, she's not a computer whizzkid, so registry edits
> might be going a bit far.
>
> Many many thanks.
>

More likely DNS issues, although IPv6 may be causing a conflict. I've seen a
Vista laptop where disabling IPv6 resolved a connection issue. Try disabling
IPv6 (unbind IPv6 from the NIC card)

"Jonathan" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...
> On 15 Jun, 00:00, "Alastair" <e...@address.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Disable the Windows firewall.
>> Ensure the DNS settings for the PC are the ISP DNS servers - or the
>> router IP if she doesn't know these.
>>
>> It's a DNS problem - firewall or incorrect settings.
>
> Yeah, but if that's the case, why won't it ping larger packets (when
> mine will) and why won't it show web pages even when the IP address is
> used instead of the domain name?
> When domain name is used, it says the server cannot be found. But when
> the IP address is used, it comes up with a blank page.
> Which is what I had with MTU problems on another machine, but that was
> cured just by resetting the router to default.
> In this case, I know the router defaults work with XP, cos it's my old
> router! But with Vista, it just won't work.
>

I've had to do this in Vista on a couple of machines:

netsh interface tcp set global autotuninglevel=off

It apparently disables Vista's built in auto-tuning. Not sure why it causes
issues, but we had a user on our network who's MSN would kick her off, and
lots of websites wouldn't load. After running that, it's been fine.
Weirdly, I've not had to run it on my own machine yet, so may be NIC
specific!
James

In message <(E-Mail Removed) .com>
at 15:51:12 on Thu, 14 Jun 2007, Jonathan <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
>I'd be very grateful if someone could help me help a non-techy friend
>out, who's desperate to get back online so she can finish her
>coursework.
>They live too far away to just drop by, so I'm doing it over the
>phone.
>Over the course of a three hour phone call, I established the
>following:
>
>She has Windows Vista Home Basic.
>It is connected via a LAN cable to an Etec ADSL router.
>It used to be connected via a USB modem (which is faulty and kept
>crashing the PC)
>She can get into the admin page of the router, which shows that it is
>connected to the internet.
>>From a command line on the PC, she can ping an IP address, for
>example, BBC News on 212.58.226.29
>The packets go fine.
>If she types ping news.bbc.co.uk, it says it cannot find the server
>If she types ping -l 1500 212.58.226.29 she gets 100% packet loss.
>On the internet connection status, it says:
>
>ipv4 connected
>ipv6 limited
>
>If she goes to the diagnostics, it says:
>"The security policy settings on this computer might be blocking the
>connection. The following policy might need to be adjusted to allow
>windows to connect.
>Policy provider: Windows firewall
>Filter Name: query user
>If the policy provider identified is windows firewall, click for
>information about adjusting windows firewall settings
>If a different policy provider has been identified, check the
>providers document".
>
>Insofar as the PC can talk to the router and the router can talk to
>the internet and small packet pings work but bigger packets don't, I
>thought it must be the MTU settings.
>The router defaults were: mtu:1492 mru:1492 mss:1432
>The router is running PPPoA on Orange broadband on the BT network I
>believe.
>I went and Googled extensively and found an alternative setting of
>1420 in all boxes, which we applied and rebooted, but the result was
>the same.
>I then found these pages:
>http://www.microsoft.com/technet/com...uy/cg1005.mspx
>http://www.chris123nt.com/guides/5365/
>http://tweakhound.com/vista/tweakguide/page_9.htm
>In particular, the last two sites recommend disabling IPv6, which
>makes sense as it was that which reported limited connectivity. So, we
>made the box look like the "recommended" on on the tweakhound site,
>and reset the mtu, mru and mss to default. Rebooted everything, but
>again, pinging IP works, pinging IP with larger packets or by name
>doesn't, and ip addresses in websites don't work.
>
>To my limited experience, it seems a classic case of fragmented
>packets and MTU problems. But having only used Vista for about 20
>minutes, I'm now lost. We've been trying to resolve it since 8pm and
>it's now coming up to midnight, so I'm really hoping one of you good
>people can come up with a suggesting, bearing in mind that although
>she's a bright lass, she's not a computer whizzkid, so registry edits
>might be going a bit far.
>
>Many many thanks.
>
As well as changing the MTU on the router have you changed them on the
PC too? I use something called DrTCP for doing this
--
Mike News

On 15 Jun, 18:21, Mike
<turnpike_user@turnpike_REMOVEuser.THIScomANDTHI S> wrote:

> As well as changing the MTU on the router have you changed them on the
> PC too? I use something called DrTCP for doing this
> --
> Mike News

There lay the problem - you can't run something if you can't download
it
I wasn't with the PC, so it just wasn't possible. But good idea!