Verizon DSL and router installation nightmare

I have a new Dell with Vista- nice machine.

Before this, I've had no experience with DSL and routers.

Got the DSL set up using the Westell 6100- no problemo, once I managed to
disable the non functioning house alarm system that hooked into the phone
lines.

then the nightmare began....

Got a LinkSys cable/DSL router- the BEFSR41. I downloaded Verizon's
instructions on how to set up my router with their modem. It looked
complicated so I saw that the LinkSys brief instruction said to just run
their CD- it would do everything- but, after wiring up the router, the CD
did a test, over and over and over- and couldn't get passed that test. I
then dismantled it and went back to Verizon's instructions.

It said that it was necessary to change the modem to a "bridge" by entering
an IP number and following their instructions- but, when I entered the IP
number in my browser I saw an OS dialogue box requesting a user ID and
password. Verizon's instructions said to use my Ver. User ID and password-
which I tried but didn't work.

So, I called Verizon and a guy led me through the process- informing me that
I simply need to use "admin" and "password" in those fields to get past that
dialog box- then he walked me through changing the model to "bridge".

Then I ran the router's CD and the same thing- it couldn't get past the
test- without telling me what is wrong- so I called LinkSys and a tech spent
an hour leading me through setting up the router without their program by
using config and other DOS like programs- only to find out it still didn't
work- he concluded that the router was defective.

this morning I called LinkSys again, after a good night's rest- and another
tech had me test my "Gateway IP" on my modem and informed me, lo and behold,
that both items have the same IP- which doesn't mean much to me but means
that they work together- so he left me with instructions to change it-
complex instructions.

At this point, I don't think any of the techs know what they're doing.

So, what the heck is wrong here? did I do something stupid other than buying
this router?

How should it have been setup given the fact that the DSL was working fine.

Did the modem have to be reset to "bridge"- whatever that means?

Could the router's CD have correctly set up the router? If so, what went
wrong?

If the real issue is that they both have the same IP, how could somebody
have been so stupid for this to happen?

Any comments and suggestions will be appreciated.

Joe

I was just informed by a guy in 0.verizon.adsl that my Westell 6100 is
actually a router so by my adding a LinkSys router- well, that was a bad
idea. I don't get it- how can the 6100 be a router when Verizon says it's a
modem?

I'm new to dsl and routers, otherwise I'm an experienced computer user- but
this router stuff is difficult for me to grasp.

Joe



"Joe" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:3PH%h.4632$XZ2.4311@trndny01...
>I have a new Dell with Vista- nice machine.
>
> Before this, I've had no experience with DSL and routers.
>
> Got the DSL set up using the Westell 6100- no problemo, once I managed to
> disable the non functioning house alarm system that hooked into the phone
> lines.
>
> then the nightmare began....
>
> Got a LinkSys cable/DSL router- the BEFSR41. I downloaded Verizon's
> instructions on how to set up my router with their modem. It looked
> complicated so I saw that the LinkSys brief instruction said to just run
> their CD- it would do everything- but, after wiring up the router, the CD
> did a test, over and over and over- and couldn't get passed that test. I
> then dismantled it and went back to Verizon's instructions.
>
> It said that it was necessary to change the modem to a "bridge" by
> entering
> an IP number and following their instructions- but, when I entered the IP
> number in my browser I saw an OS dialogue box requesting a user ID and
> password. Verizon's instructions said to use my Ver. User ID and password-
> which I tried but didn't work.
>
> So, I called Verizon and a guy led me through the process- informing me
> that
> I simply need to use "admin" and "password" in those fields to get past
> that
> dialog box- then he walked me through changing the model to "bridge".
>
> Then I ran the router's CD and the same thing- it couldn't get past the
> test- without telling me what is wrong- so I called LinkSys and a tech
> spent
> an hour leading me through setting up the router without their program by
> using config and other DOS like programs- only to find out it still didn't
> work- he concluded that the router was defective.
>
> this morning I called LinkSys again, after a good night's rest- and
> another
> tech had me test my "Gateway IP" on my modem and informed me, lo and
> behold,
> that both items have the same IP- which doesn't mean much to me but means
> that they work together- so he left me with instructions to change it-
> complex instructions.
>
> At this point, I don't think any of the techs know what they're doing.
>
> So, what the heck is wrong here? did I do something stupid other than
> buying
> this router?
>
> How should it have been setup given the fact that the DSL was working
> fine.
>
> Did the modem have to be reset to "bridge"- whatever that means?
>
> Could the router's CD have correctly set up the router? If so, what went
> wrong?
>
> If the real issue is that they both have the same IP, how could somebody
> have been so stupid for this to happen?
>
> Any comments and suggestions will be appreciated.
>
> Joe
>

Joe wrote:
> I was just informed by a guy in 0.verizon.adsl that my Westell 6100 is
> actually a router so by my adding a LinkSys router- well, that was a bad
> idea. I don't get it- how can the 6100 be a router when Verizon says it's a
> modem?
>
> I'm new to dsl and routers, otherwise I'm an experienced computer user- but
> this router stuff is difficult for me to grasp.
>
> Joe
>
>
>
> "Joe" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:3PH%h.4632$XZ2.4311@trndny01...
>> I have a new Dell with Vista- nice machine.
>>
>> Before this, I've had no experience with DSL and routers.
>>
>> Got the DSL set up using the Westell 6100- no problemo, once I managed to
>> disable the non functioning house alarm system that hooked into the phone
>> lines.
>>
>> then the nightmare began....
>>
>> Got a LinkSys cable/DSL router- the BEFSR41. I downloaded Verizon's
>> instructions on how to set up my router with their modem. It looked
>> complicated so I saw that the LinkSys brief instruction said to just run
>> their CD- it would do everything- but, after wiring up the router, the CD
>> did a test, over and over and over- and couldn't get passed that test. I
>> then dismantled it and went back to Verizon's instructions.
>>
>> It said that it was necessary to change the modem to a "bridge" by
>> entering
>> an IP number and following their instructions- but, when I entered the IP
>> number in my browser I saw an OS dialogue box requesting a user ID and
>> password. Verizon's instructions said to use my Ver. User ID and
>> password-
>> which I tried but didn't work.
>>
>> So, I called Verizon and a guy led me through the process- informing
>> me that
>> I simply need to use "admin" and "password" in those fields to get
>> past that
>> dialog box- then he walked me through changing the model to "bridge".
>>
>> Then I ran the router's CD and the same thing- it couldn't get past the
>> test- without telling me what is wrong- so I called LinkSys and a tech
>> spent
>> an hour leading me through setting up the router without their program by
>> using config and other DOS like programs- only to find out it still
>> didn't
>> work- he concluded that the router was defective.
>>
>> this morning I called LinkSys again, after a good night's rest- and
>> another
>> tech had me test my "Gateway IP" on my modem and informed me, lo and
>> behold,
>> that both items have the same IP- which doesn't mean much to me but means
>> that they work together- so he left me with instructions to change it-
>> complex instructions.
>>
>> At this point, I don't think any of the techs know what they're doing.
>>
>> So, what the heck is wrong here? did I do something stupid other than
>> buying
>> this router?
>>
>> How should it have been setup given the fact that the DSL was working
>> fine.
>>
>> Did the modem have to be reset to "bridge"- whatever that means?
>>
>> Could the router's CD have correctly set up the router? If so, what went
>> wrong?
>>
>> If the real issue is that they both have the same IP, how could somebody
>> have been so stupid for this to happen?
>>
>> Any comments and suggestions will be appreciated.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>

Joe:

I too have just crossed paths with DSL / Verizon / Westel 6100 but I
had nowhere near the trouble you are having. It DID take considerable
digging to find a cogent description of what was going on though.

You are right that the terminology is confusing. The 6100 is a router
with only one port. In router mode it will act as a DHCP server, DNS
(Gateway) and firewall (NAT) to whatever is plugged into its one
ethernet (or USB) port. When you put it into "Bridge" mode it becomes
a plain old modem. The DHCP, DNS (Gateway) and firewall (NAT) are then
handled by the router.

I found some good instructions and I am copying them below.

If things are really FUBARed you may want to reset the 6100 to factory
defaults and start over.

HTH & GL

John

*****************

What is "Bridge" mode??

The 6100 can operate in two modes: modem/router/firewall mode (comes
this way by default) and bridge mode. The latter makes the 6100 act
like a "dumb" modem and simply "bridges" your DSL connection directly
to either your own router (e.g. Linksys) or your computer.

When in bridge Mode, the 6100 no longer pulls an IP address directly,
no longer acts like a router, and its firewall capabilities are
completely disabled. When it's in this mode, the 6100 should be
connected to another device that will do all that (typically another
firewall/router device).


How do I use a router with the Westell 6100? (#13600)

The Westell 6100 modem/router Verizon is supplying can be used
in either Router or Bridge mode; if you are already using a router, or
want to, you need to put the modem in Bridge mode or you'll have
problems. Here's how:

First, connect your PC directly to the Westell 6100 with an
ethernet (CAT5 or CAT5e) cable, bypassing your router. (You may also
try to release your IP address at this point, though it often doesn't
work with Verizon).

In your browser's address box, type 192.168.1.1 to access the Modem
Configuration utility.

When asked for user name and password, enter your router's username
and password (default for the Verizon issued routers is typically
"user=admin, password=password").

Now, from the Configuration menu, choose VC configuration, hit the
top Edit button.

In the popup, set protocol to Bridge. Then below in VC 1 Bridge
Settings set the mode to Bridge.

Hit Set VC. Save.

Then, again in the Configuration menu, select DHCP Configuration and
set the dropdown to OFF. Hit save and log off the utility.

Skip this next step if you've already been using your router to
supply PPPoE with your username and password already.

Unplug the network cable from the modem and hook it up directly to
your router (so your computer and your router are now hooked up and
the modem isn't in the mix). Enter your router's configuration area
(usually 192.168.2.1), choose PPPoE and, in the PPPoE area, change the
log on entries to your Verizon username and password.

Now (almost done!) hook a cable between the modem and the
router (Verizon usually supplies one), leaving the PC to router
connection in place. Reboot both devices. All should work fine now.

Most people don't need any more complex procedures, so try
these first. However, on occasion, you will need some additional
steps, including cloning MAC addresses. If you have trouble, check out
the
diagrams and instructions here:

members.verizon.net/~res08lyg/6100.htm



--
\\\||///
------------------o000----(o)(o)----000o----------------
----------------------------()--------------------------
'' Madness takes its toll - Please have exact change. ''

John Dulak - Gnomeway Services - http://tinyurl.com/3an63f

Joe wrote:
> I was just informed by a guy in 0.verizon.adsl that my Westell 6100 is
> actually a router so by my adding a LinkSys router- well, that was a bad
> idea. I don't get it- how can the 6100 be a router when Verizon says it's a
> modem?
>
> I'm new to dsl and routers, otherwise I'm an experienced computer user- but
> this router stuff is difficult for me to grasp.
>
> Joe
>
>
>
> "Joe" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:3PH%h.4632$XZ2.4311@trndny01...
>> I have a new Dell with Vista- nice machine.
>>
>> Before this, I've had no experience with DSL and routers.
>>
>> Got the DSL set up using the Westell 6100- no problemo, once I managed to
>> disable the non functioning house alarm system that hooked into the phone
>> lines.
>>
>> then the nightmare began....
>>
>> Got a LinkSys cable/DSL router- the BEFSR41. I downloaded Verizon's
>> instructions on how to set up my router with their modem. It looked
>> complicated so I saw that the LinkSys brief instruction said to just run
>> their CD- it would do everything- but, after wiring up the router, the CD
>> did a test, over and over and over- and couldn't get passed that test. I
>> then dismantled it and went back to Verizon's instructions.
>>
>> It said that it was necessary to change the modem to a "bridge" by
>> entering
>> an IP number and following their instructions- but, when I entered the IP
>> number in my browser I saw an OS dialogue box requesting a user ID and
>> password. Verizon's instructions said to use my Ver. User ID and
>> password-
>> which I tried but didn't work.
>>
>> So, I called Verizon and a guy led me through the process- informing
>> me that
>> I simply need to use "admin" and "password" in those fields to get
>> past that
>> dialog box- then he walked me through changing the model to "bridge".
>>
>> Then I ran the router's CD and the same thing- it couldn't get past the
>> test- without telling me what is wrong- so I called LinkSys and a tech
>> spent
>> an hour leading me through setting up the router without their program by
>> using config and other DOS like programs- only to find out it still
>> didn't
>> work- he concluded that the router was defective.
>>
>> this morning I called LinkSys again, after a good night's rest- and
>> another
>> tech had me test my "Gateway IP" on my modem and informed me, lo and
>> behold,
>> that both items have the same IP- which doesn't mean much to me but means
>> that they work together- so he left me with instructions to change it-
>> complex instructions.
>>
>> At this point, I don't think any of the techs know what they're doing.
>>
>> So, what the heck is wrong here? did I do something stupid other than
>> buying
>> this router?
>>
>> How should it have been setup given the fact that the DSL was working
>> fine.
>>
>> Did the modem have to be reset to "bridge"- whatever that means?
>>
>> Could the router's CD have correctly set up the router? If so, what went
>> wrong?
>>
>> If the real issue is that they both have the same IP, how could somebody
>> have been so stupid for this to happen?
>>
>> Any comments and suggestions will be appreciated.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>

Joe:

You may also want to post your problem here:

http://www.broadbandreports.com/forum/ilec,vz

Good Luck

John

--
\\\||///
------------------o000----(o)(o)----000o----------------
----------------------------()--------------------------
'' Madness takes its toll - Please have exact change. ''

John Dulak - Gnomeway Services - http://tinyurl.com/3an63f

I ran into that exact problem with my Weatell 327. I kept getting a message
that the router/modem couldn't connect and I'd get that screen to requesting
user name and password.It never worked,even when I reset the modem with the
little button on the back. I must have gotten the same thing 50 times.
At the time I was using my backup pc with W98SE on it.
I was building a new pc and when I finally got it running and Windows 2K
installed,the verizon setup worked perfectly. I don't think it had anything
to do with 98SE because I had it working fine earlier.I think there was some
corruption preventing the verizon install.

"Joe" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:3PH%h.4632$XZ2.4311@trndny01...
> I have a new Dell with Vista- nice machine.
>
> Before this, I've had no experience with DSL and routers.
>
> Got the DSL set up using the Westell 6100- no problemo, once I managed to
> disable the non functioning house alarm system that hooked into the phone
> lines.
>
> then the nightmare began....
>
> Got a LinkSys cable/DSL router- the BEFSR41. I downloaded Verizon's
> instructions on how to set up my router with their modem. It looked
> complicated so I saw that the LinkSys brief instruction said to just run
> their CD- it would do everything- but, after wiring up the router, the CD
> did a test, over and over and over- and couldn't get passed that test. I
> then dismantled it and went back to Verizon's instructions.
>
> It said that it was necessary to change the modem to a "bridge" by
entering
> an IP number and following their instructions- but, when I entered the IP
> number in my browser I saw an OS dialogue box requesting a user ID and
> password. Verizon's instructions said to use my Ver. User ID and password-
> which I tried but didn't work.
>
> So, I called Verizon and a guy led me through the process- informing me
that
> I simply need to use "admin" and "password" in those fields to get past
that
> dialog box- then he walked me through changing the model to "bridge".
>
> Then I ran the router's CD and the same thing- it couldn't get past the
> test- without telling me what is wrong- so I called LinkSys and a tech
spent
> an hour leading me through setting up the router without their program by
> using config and other DOS like programs- only to find out it still didn't
> work- he concluded that the router was defective.
>
> this morning I called LinkSys again, after a good night's rest- and
another
> tech had me test my "Gateway IP" on my modem and informed me, lo and
behold,
> that both items have the same IP- which doesn't mean much to me but means
> that they work together- so he left me with instructions to change it-
> complex instructions.
>
> At this point, I don't think any of the techs know what they're doing.
>
> So, what the heck is wrong here? did I do something stupid other than
buying
> this router?
>
> How should it have been setup given the fact that the DSL was working
fine.
>
> Did the modem have to be reset to "bridge"- whatever that means?
>
> Could the router's CD have correctly set up the router? If so, what went
> wrong?
>
> If the real issue is that they both have the same IP, how could somebody
> have been so stupid for this to happen?
>
> Any comments and suggestions will be appreciated.
>
> Joe
>

(snipped)

> You are right that the terminology is confusing. The 6100 is a router with
> only one port. In router mode it will act as a DHCP server, DNS (Gateway)
> and firewall (NAT) to whatever is plugged into its one ethernet (or USB)
> port. When you put it into "Bridge" mode it becomes a plain old modem. The
> DHCP, DNS (Gateway) and firewall (NAT) are then handled by the router.

A friend said I should have purchased the LinkSys with the hardware
firewall- from what you say, it's not necessary because of the "firewall
(NAT)". Is that a software firewall?

I have the LinkSys EFSR41- the box does refer to the NAT- another model, the
EFSRX41 says it's a "firewall router"- so I presume there is some
difference?

Should I return mine and get the "X" version?

Joe

Joe wrote:
>
> (snipped)
>
>> You are right that the terminology is confusing. The 6100 is a router
>> with only one port. In router mode it will act as a DHCP server, DNS
>> (Gateway) and firewall (NAT) to whatever is plugged into its one
>> ethernet (or USB) port. When you put it into "Bridge" mode it becomes
>> a plain old modem. The DHCP, DNS (Gateway) and firewall (NAT) are then
>> handled by the router.
>
> A friend said I should have purchased the LinkSys with the hardware
> firewall- from what you say, it's not necessary because of the "firewall
> (NAT)". Is that a software firewall?
>
> I have the LinkSys EFSR41- the box does refer to the NAT- another model,
> the EFSRX41 says it's a "firewall router"- so I presume there is some
> difference?
>
> Should I return mine and get the "X" version?
>
> Joe

Joe:

NAT stands for Network Address Translation. Without NAT if you connect
to the internet your PC has access to the internet and the entire
internet has access to your PC. The "Access" may require special
techniques to manipulate the network connection but it is NOT a good
idea in any case. (With Dial-up it is les of an issue because most
people do not keep the link up for extended periods.)

With NAT running your PC is never part of the internet. If you request
something from the internet the request goes to the NAT appliance
(usualy a router but it could be a software package running on the
local PC) which then passes the request on to the internet and
recieves the information back and forwards it to your PC. Firewalls do
this as well as other things but that is the basic setup. Since the
NAT router is not a PC but a dedicated piece of hardware it is not as
easy to subvert from the internet. I think ALL current routers have
the ability to do NAT these days.

What I would do is, for now, forget about the Westell DSL modem and
concentrate on getting the router working to connect all the PCs you
plan to use. The router will also have a default user name and
password that has NOTHING to do with your Verizon or Windows password.
Check the documentation to find out what it is.

The router has to have a local (LAN) IP address just like the other
local PCs. The router almost certanly has a DHCP server built in that
will assign IP addresses to any PC that is plugger into one of its
ethernet ports and requests one. A typical arrangement would be to set
the router's IP address to 192.168.2.1 and the other PCs that use DHCP
will end up 192.168.2.x. Once you get that running and all the PCs can
at least see or PING each other you can go back and do battle with the
westell 6100.

My understanding is that the 6100 must be configured by a PC connected
DIRECTLY to its one ethernet port. The default IP address is
192.168.1.1 login name "user=admin, password=password". You can then
folow the instructions in my previous post to set the thing to
"Bridge" mode. Notice that the 6100's IP address (192.168.1.1) is in a
different range than the LAN addresses (192.168.2.x). The 6100 in
bridge mode cannot have an IP address that, even theoretically, could
be part of the LAN side.

HTH & GL

John

--
\\\||///
------------------o000----(o)(o)----000o----------------
----------------------------()--------------------------
'' Madness takes its toll - Please have exact change. ''

John Dulak - Gnomeway Services - http://tinyurl.com/3an63f

"John Dulak" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:Y5P%h.1747$wy2.1602@trnddc03...
> Joe wrote:
>>
>> (snipped)
>>
>>> You are right that the terminology is confusing. The 6100 is a router
>>> with only one port. In router mode it will act as a DHCP server, DNS
>>> (Gateway) and firewall (NAT) to whatever is plugged into its one
>>> ethernet (or USB) port. When you put it into "Bridge" mode it becomes a
>>> plain old modem. The DHCP, DNS (Gateway) and firewall (NAT) are then
>>> handled by the router.
>>
>> A friend said I should have purchased the LinkSys with the hardware
>> firewall- from what you say, it's not necessary because of the "firewall
>> (NAT)". Is that a software firewall?
>>
>> I have the LinkSys EFSR41- the box does refer to the NAT- another model,
>> the EFSRX41 says it's a "firewall router"- so I presume there is some
>> difference?
>>
>> Should I return mine and get the "X" version?
>>
>> Joe
>
> Joe:
>
> NAT stands for Network Address Translation. Without NAT if you connect to
> the internet your PC has access to the internet and the entire internet
> has access to your PC. The "Access" may require special techniques to
> manipulate the network connection but it is NOT a good idea in any case.
> (With Dial-up it is les of an issue because most people do not keep the
> link up for extended periods.)
>
> With NAT running your PC is never part of the internet. If you request
> something from the internet the request goes to the NAT appliance (usualy
> a router but it could be a software package running on the local PC) which
> then passes the request on to the internet and recieves the information
> back and forwards it to your PC. Firewalls do this as well as other things
> but that is the basic setup. Since the NAT router is not a PC but a
> dedicated piece of hardware it is not as easy to subvert from the
> internet. I think ALL current routers have the ability to do NAT these
> days.
>
> What I would do is, for now, forget about the Westell DSL modem and
> concentrate on getting the router working to connect all the PCs you plan
> to use. The router will also have a default user name and password that
> has NOTHING to do with your Verizon or Windows password. Check the
> documentation to find out what it is.
>
> The router has to have a local (LAN) IP address just like the other local
> PCs. The router almost certanly has a DHCP server built in that will
> assign IP addresses to any PC that is plugger into one of its ethernet
> ports and requests one. A typical arrangement would be to set the router's
> IP address to 192.168.2.1 and the other PCs that use DHCP will end up
> 192.168.2.x. Once you get that running and all the PCs can at least see or
> PING each other you can go back and do battle with the westell 6100.
>
> My understanding is that the 6100 must be configured by a PC connected
> DIRECTLY to its one ethernet port. The default IP address is 192.168.1.1
> login name "user=admin, password=password". You can then folow the
> instructions in my previous post to set the thing to "Bridge" mode. Notice
> that the 6100's IP address (192.168.1.1) is in a different range than the
> LAN addresses (192.168.2.x). The 6100 in bridge mode cannot have an IP
> address that, even theoretically, could be part of the LAN side.
>
> HTH & GL
>
> John
>
> --
> \\\||///
> ------------------o000----(o)(o)----000o----------------
> ----------------------------()--------------------------
> '' Madness takes its toll - Please have exact change. ''
>
> John Dulak - Gnomeway Services - http://tinyurl.com/3an63f


John, in another newsgroup- "0.verizon.adsl", someone suggested forgetting
the router entirely and getting a "switch"- which gets around the issue of
attempting to configure the 6100 which is a modem/router with another
router. What do you think of that idea? And, would it be easy to set up
without configuration hassles? I just want something that works with as
little headache as possible- I've already gotten my brains rattled over
this.

All this complexity is probably nothing to network pros but to someone else,
it's just too much hassle- and I'm not a computer neophyte- I've been using
computers since the early PCs and programming too- so I can make sense out
of the complexity if I had the time, but I don't. I just want to surf the
net.

Joe

Joe wrote:

> John, in another newsgroup- "0.verizon.adsl", someone suggested
> forgetting the router entirely and getting a "switch"- which gets around
> the issue of attempting to configure the 6100 which is a modem/router
> with another router. What do you think of that idea? And, would it be
> easy to set up without configuration hassles? I just want something that
> works with as little headache as possible- I've already gotten my brains
> rattled over this.
>
> All this complexity is probably nothing to network pros but to someone
> else, it's just too much hassle- and I'm not a computer neophyte- I've
> been using computers since the early PCs and programming too- so I can
> make sense out of the complexity if I had the time, but I don't. I just
> want to surf the net.
>
> Joe

Joe:

A switch should work just fine. In fact most things sold as "routers"
are realy a router / switch combination since most people want to
connect more than one computer. The switch is the part that handles
everything on the local LAN side so that the local PCs can share files
, folders and printers.

Good Luck

John


--
\\\||///
------------------o000----(o)(o)----000o----------------
----------------------------()--------------------------
'' Madness takes its toll - Please have exact change. ''

John Dulak - Gnomeway Services - http://tinyurl.com/3an63f