(Usually) Can't See XP Computers on Network

Our Windows XP computers usually can't be seen by the Wi

We have a small Windows network, with ethernet and wireless connections.

Two desktop computers, Windows 2000 Pro, connected via ethernet (3Com
router).

Two laptops, Windows XP Pro, can connect either via ethernet or wirelessly
(LinkSys access point).

LinkSys access point uses WPA-TKIP encryption.

Desktops can always see themselves and the other desktop on the network, but
usually can't see the laptops.
Laptops can usually see the desktops on the network, and sometimes each
other and themselves (but not always).

We seem to have somewhat better luck with this when the laptops are using an
ethernet connection, but still problematic seeing the laptops.

I don't really know where to start to solve the problem of the disappearing
Windows XP laptops.

Any help would be appreciated.

Possible browser election issue. Try:

On the laptops go to Administrative Tools/Services. Double click on the
Computer Browser service and set the Startup type to manual.

Reboot the laptops and wait - it can take several minutes to obtain a browse
list.

Doug Sherman
MCSE, MCSA, MCP+I, MVP

"JBVC" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:45D68C3B-10E5-4731-8676-(E-Mail Removed)...
> Our Windows XP computers usually can't be seen by the Wi
>
> We have a small Windows network, with ethernet and wireless connections.
>
> Two desktop computers, Windows 2000 Pro, connected via ethernet (3Com
> router).
>
> Two laptops, Windows XP Pro, can connect either via ethernet or wirelessly
> (LinkSys access point).
>
> LinkSys access point uses WPA-TKIP encryption.
>
> Desktops can always see themselves and the other desktop on the network,
but
> usually can't see the laptops.
> Laptops can usually see the desktops on the network, and sometimes each
> other and themselves (but not always).
>
> We seem to have somewhat better luck with this when the laptops are using
an
> ethernet connection, but still problematic seeing the laptops.
>
> I don't really know where to start to solve the problem of the
disappearing
> Windows XP laptops.
>
> Any help would be appreciated.
>
>

I'll setting Computer Browser to Manual. What exactly is "Computer
Browser", and what effects do the settings have?

Thanks for your help.


"Doug Sherman [MVP]" wrote:

> Possible browser election issue. Try:
>
> On the laptops go to Administrative Tools/Services. Double click on the
> Computer Browser service and set the Startup type to manual.
>
> Reboot the laptops and wait - it can take several minutes to obtain a browse
> list.
>
> Doug Sherman
> MCSE, MCSA, MCP+I, MVP
>
> "JBVC" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:45D68C3B-10E5-4731-8676-(E-Mail Removed)...
> > Our Windows XP computers usually can't be seen by the Wi
> >
> > We have a small Windows network, with ethernet and wireless connections.
> >
> > Two desktop computers, Windows 2000 Pro, connected via ethernet (3Com
> > router).
> >
> > Two laptops, Windows XP Pro, can connect either via ethernet or wirelessly
> > (LinkSys access point).
> >
> > LinkSys access point uses WPA-TKIP encryption.
> >
> > Desktops can always see themselves and the other desktop on the network,
> but
> > usually can't see the laptops.
> > Laptops can usually see the desktops on the network, and sometimes each
> > other and themselves (but not always).
> >
> > We seem to have somewhat better luck with this when the laptops are using
> an
> > ethernet connection, but still problematic seeing the laptops.
> >
> > I don't really know where to start to solve the problem of the
> disappearing
> > Windows XP laptops.
> >
> > Any help would be appreciated.
> >
> >
>
>
>

Disabling or not starting the computer browser service prevents the machine
from participating in master browser elections - thereby eliminating a
possible conflict. Disabling or not starting this service does not prevent
the machine from browsing or obtaining a browse list as long as at least one
machine on the subnet is running the service.

Doug Sherman
MCSE, MCSA, MCP+I, MVP

"JBVC" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:CEA12035-9A2F-4E88-A333-(E-Mail Removed)...
> I'll setting Computer Browser to Manual. What exactly is "Computer
> Browser", and what effects do the settings have?
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
>
> "Doug Sherman [MVP]" wrote:
>
> > Possible browser election issue. Try:
> >
> > On the laptops go to Administrative Tools/Services. Double click on the
> > Computer Browser service and set the Startup type to manual.
> >
> > Reboot the laptops and wait - it can take several minutes to obtain a
browse
> > list.
> >
> > Doug Sherman
> > MCSE, MCSA, MCP+I, MVP
> >
> > "JBVC" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:45D68C3B-10E5-4731-8676-(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > Our Windows XP computers usually can't be seen by the Wi
> > >
> > > We have a small Windows network, with ethernet and wireless
connections.
> > >
> > > Two desktop computers, Windows 2000 Pro, connected via ethernet (3Com
> > > router).
> > >
> > > Two laptops, Windows XP Pro, can connect either via ethernet or
wirelessly
> > > (LinkSys access point).
> > >
> > > LinkSys access point uses WPA-TKIP encryption.
> > >
> > > Desktops can always see themselves and the other desktop on the
network,
> > but
> > > usually can't see the laptops.
> > > Laptops can usually see the desktops on the network, and sometimes
each
> > > other and themselves (but not always).
> > >
> > > We seem to have somewhat better luck with this when the laptops are
using
> > an
> > > ethernet connection, but still problematic seeing the laptops.
> > >
> > > I don't really know where to start to solve the problem of the
> > disappearing
> > > Windows XP laptops.
> > >
> > > Any help would be appreciated.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >

Doug, do you know if these issues are going to be fixed in vista? or if they
will continue as long as Windows uses this type of service?
It's been too long that I've had to deal with the browsing problems since
windows 98.

-James G.

"Doug Sherman [MVP]" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Disabling or not starting the computer browser service prevents the
> machine
> from participating in master browser elections - thereby eliminating a
> possible conflict. Disabling or not starting this service does not
> prevent
> the machine from browsing or obtaining a browse list as long as at least
> one
> machine on the subnet is running the service.
>
> Doug Sherman
> MCSE, MCSA, MCP+I, MVP
>
> "JBVC" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:CEA12035-9A2F-4E88-A333-(E-Mail Removed)...
>> I'll setting Computer Browser to Manual. What exactly is "Computer
>> Browser", and what effects do the settings have?
>>
>> Thanks for your help.
>>
>>
>> "Doug Sherman [MVP]" wrote:
>>
>> > Possible browser election issue. Try:
>> >
>> > On the laptops go to Administrative Tools/Services. Double click on
>> > the
>> > Computer Browser service and set the Startup type to manual.
>> >
>> > Reboot the laptops and wait - it can take several minutes to obtain a
> browse
>> > list.
>> >
>> > Doug Sherman
>> > MCSE, MCSA, MCP+I, MVP
>> >
>> > "JBVC" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> > news:45D68C3B-10E5-4731-8676-(E-Mail Removed)...
>> > > Our Windows XP computers usually can't be seen by the Wi
>> > >
>> > > We have a small Windows network, with ethernet and wireless
> connections.
>> > >
>> > > Two desktop computers, Windows 2000 Pro, connected via ethernet
>> > > (3Com
>> > > router).
>> > >
>> > > Two laptops, Windows XP Pro, can connect either via ethernet or
> wirelessly
>> > > (LinkSys access point).
>> > >
>> > > LinkSys access point uses WPA-TKIP encryption.
>> > >
>> > > Desktops can always see themselves and the other desktop on the
> network,
>> > but
>> > > usually can't see the laptops.
>> > > Laptops can usually see the desktops on the network, and sometimes
> each
>> > > other and themselves (but not always).
>> > >
>> > > We seem to have somewhat better luck with this when the laptops are
> using
>> > an
>> > > ethernet connection, but still problematic seeing the laptops.
>> > >
>> > > I don't really know where to start to solve the problem of the
>> > disappearing
>> > > Windows XP laptops.
>> > >
>> > > Any help would be appreciated.
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
>

What are "master browser elections"? What causes the conflict?

By the way, this seems to have worked - I changed the "Computer Browser"
setting on the laptop.

Thanks for your help.


"James Gockel" wrote:

> Doug, do you know if these issues are going to be fixed in vista? or if they
> will continue as long as Windows uses this type of service?
> It's been too long that I've had to deal with the browsing problems since
> windows 98.
>
> -James G.
>
> "Doug Sherman [MVP]" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > Disabling or not starting the computer browser service prevents the
> > machine
> > from participating in master browser elections - thereby eliminating a
> > possible conflict. Disabling or not starting this service does not
> > prevent
> > the machine from browsing or obtaining a browse list as long as at least
> > one
> > machine on the subnet is running the service.
> >
> > Doug Sherman
> > MCSE, MCSA, MCP+I, MVP
> >
> > "JBVC" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:CEA12035-9A2F-4E88-A333-(E-Mail Removed)...
> >> I'll setting Computer Browser to Manual. What exactly is "Computer
> >> Browser", and what effects do the settings have?
> >>
> >> Thanks for your help.
> >>
> >>
> >> "Doug Sherman [MVP]" wrote:
> >>
> >> > Possible browser election issue. Try:
> >> >
> >> > On the laptops go to Administrative Tools/Services. Double click on
> >> > the
> >> > Computer Browser service and set the Startup type to manual.
> >> >
> >> > Reboot the laptops and wait - it can take several minutes to obtain a
> > browse
> >> > list.
> >> >
> >> > Doug Sherman
> >> > MCSE, MCSA, MCP+I, MVP
> >> >
> >> > "JBVC" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> >> > news:45D68C3B-10E5-4731-8676-(E-Mail Removed)...
> >> > > Our Windows XP computers usually can't be seen by the Wi
> >> > >
> >> > > We have a small Windows network, with ethernet and wireless
> > connections.
> >> > >
> >> > > Two desktop computers, Windows 2000 Pro, connected via ethernet
> >> > > (3Com
> >> > > router).
> >> > >
> >> > > Two laptops, Windows XP Pro, can connect either via ethernet or
> > wirelessly
> >> > > (LinkSys access point).
> >> > >
> >> > > LinkSys access point uses WPA-TKIP encryption.
> >> > >
> >> > > Desktops can always see themselves and the other desktop on the
> > network,
> >> > but
> >> > > usually can't see the laptops.
> >> > > Laptops can usually see the desktops on the network, and sometimes
> > each
> >> > > other and themselves (but not always).
> >> > >
> >> > > We seem to have somewhat better luck with this when the laptops are
> > using
> >> > an
> >> > > ethernet connection, but still problematic seeing the laptops.
> >> > >
> >> > > I don't really know where to start to solve the problem of the
> >> > disappearing
> >> > > Windows XP laptops.
> >> > >
> >> > > Any help would be appreciated.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

"JBVC" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:ADBC490F-A635-4312-824D-(E-Mail Removed)...
> What are "master browser elections"? What causes the conflict?

The "Master Browser" is the machine which keeps the list of all computers on the
network.
Only one machine should be designated the Master Browser. Usually this machine is
the
server which is always on. If more than one machine has the browsing service turned
on
an election is supposedly held to decide which machine will provide the list.
AFAICS,
this doesn't work very well. All our problems with computers not being able to see
the list
went away when we eliminated all but one machine from Master Browser status.

Tom Lake

I'd hate to be on that election comittee.,. har har har.
-James G.

"Tom Lake" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> "JBVC" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:ADBC490F-A635-4312-824D-(E-Mail Removed)...
>> What are "master browser elections"? What causes the conflict?
>
> The "Master Browser" is the machine which keeps the list of all computers
> on the network.
> Only one machine should be designated the Master Browser. Usually this
> machine is the
> server which is always on. If more than one machine has the browsing
> service turned on
> an election is supposedly held to decide which machine will provide the
> list. AFAICS,
> this doesn't work very well. All our problems with computers not being
> able to see the list
> went away when we eliminated all but one machine from Master Browser
> status.
>
> Tom Lake
>

I think the issues will remain as long as NetBIOS based browsing remains
popular - especially when dealing with different Windows versions on the
same network.

Doug Sherman
MCSE, MCSA, MCP+I, MVP

"James Gockel" <flibbertigibbet007_at_hotmail_dot_com> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Doug, do you know if these issues are going to be fixed in vista? or if
they
> will continue as long as Windows uses this type of service?
> It's been too long that I've had to deal with the browsing problems since
> windows 98.
>
> -James G.
>
> "Doug Sherman [MVP]" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > Disabling or not starting the computer browser service prevents the
> > machine
> > from participating in master browser elections - thereby eliminating a
> > possible conflict. Disabling or not starting this service does not
> > prevent
> > the machine from browsing or obtaining a browse list as long as at least
> > one
> > machine on the subnet is running the service.
> >
> > Doug Sherman
> > MCSE, MCSA, MCP+I, MVP
> >
> > "JBVC" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:CEA12035-9A2F-4E88-A333-(E-Mail Removed)...
> >> I'll setting Computer Browser to Manual. What exactly is "Computer
> >> Browser", and what effects do the settings have?
> >>
> >> Thanks for your help.
> >>
> >>
> >> "Doug Sherman [MVP]" wrote:
> >>
> >> > Possible browser election issue. Try:
> >> >
> >> > On the laptops go to Administrative Tools/Services. Double click on
> >> > the
> >> > Computer Browser service and set the Startup type to manual.
> >> >
> >> > Reboot the laptops and wait - it can take several minutes to obtain a
> > browse
> >> > list.
> >> >
> >> > Doug Sherman
> >> > MCSE, MCSA, MCP+I, MVP
> >> >
> >> > "JBVC" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> >> > news:45D68C3B-10E5-4731-8676-(E-Mail Removed)...
> >> > > Our Windows XP computers usually can't be seen by the Wi
> >> > >
> >> > > We have a small Windows network, with ethernet and wireless
> > connections.
> >> > >
> >> > > Two desktop computers, Windows 2000 Pro, connected via ethernet
> >> > > (3Com
> >> > > router).
> >> > >
> >> > > Two laptops, Windows XP Pro, can connect either via ethernet or
> > wirelessly
> >> > > (LinkSys access point).
> >> > >
> >> > > LinkSys access point uses WPA-TKIP encryption.
> >> > >
> >> > > Desktops can always see themselves and the other desktop on the
> > network,
> >> > but
> >> > > usually can't see the laptops.
> >> > > Laptops can usually see the desktops on the network, and sometimes
> > each
> >> > > other and themselves (but not always).
> >> > >
> >> > > We seem to have somewhat better luck with this when the laptops are
> > using
> >> > an
> >> > > ethernet connection, but still problematic seeing the laptops.
> >> > >
> >> > > I don't really know where to start to solve the problem of the
> >> > disappearing
> >> > > Windows XP laptops.
> >> > >
> >> > > Any help would be appreciated.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >
> >
>
>

The master browser maintains the 'server' (any machines providing shared
resources) list which is provided to computers seeking to browse the
network. There are rules which determine the master browser on a given
network segment, and YES it involves a process called an election. AND its
not a real democracy - among the candidates all machines are not created
equal - newer Windows versions get preference. All of this happens by way
of broadcasts which increases the possibility of collisions and lost packets
such that that some machines may not get correct information - especially if
all machines are potential browsers (running the browser service). This can
result in more than one machine trying to act as a master browser, multiple
incomplete browse lists, etc. In your case I think the XP machines tried to
force an election every time they connected and .......... Katherine Harris
failed to count the votes correctly? You can learn more here:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/188001/en-us

Doug Sherman
MCSE, MCSA, MCP+I, MVP

"JBVC" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:ADBC490F-A635-4312-824D-(E-Mail Removed)...
> What are "master browser elections"? What causes the conflict?
>
> By the way, this seems to have worked - I changed the "Computer Browser"
> setting on the laptop.
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
>
> "James Gockel" wrote:
>
> > Doug, do you know if these issues are going to be fixed in vista? or if
they
> > will continue as long as Windows uses this type of service?
> > It's been too long that I've had to deal with the browsing problems
since
> > windows 98.
> >
> > -James G.
> >
> > "Doug Sherman [MVP]" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
message
> > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > Disabling or not starting the computer browser service prevents the
> > > machine
> > > from participating in master browser elections - thereby eliminating a
> > > possible conflict. Disabling or not starting this service does not
> > > prevent
> > > the machine from browsing or obtaining a browse list as long as at
least
> > > one
> > > machine on the subnet is running the service.
> > >
> > > Doug Sherman
> > > MCSE, MCSA, MCP+I, MVP
> > >
> > > "JBVC" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > > news:CEA12035-9A2F-4E88-A333-(E-Mail Removed)...
> > >> I'll setting Computer Browser to Manual. What exactly is "Computer
> > >> Browser", and what effects do the settings have?
> > >>
> > >> Thanks for your help.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> "Doug Sherman [MVP]" wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > Possible browser election issue. Try:
> > >> >
> > >> > On the laptops go to Administrative Tools/Services. Double click
on
> > >> > the
> > >> > Computer Browser service and set the Startup type to manual.
> > >> >
> > >> > Reboot the laptops and wait - it can take several minutes to obtain
a
> > > browse
> > >> > list.
> > >> >
> > >> > Doug Sherman
> > >> > MCSE, MCSA, MCP+I, MVP
> > >> >
> > >> > "JBVC" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > >> > news:45D68C3B-10E5-4731-8676-(E-Mail Removed)...
> > >> > > Our Windows XP computers usually can't be seen by the Wi
> > >> > >
> > >> > > We have a small Windows network, with ethernet and wireless
> > > connections.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Two desktop computers, Windows 2000 Pro, connected via ethernet
> > >> > > (3Com
> > >> > > router).
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Two laptops, Windows XP Pro, can connect either via ethernet or
> > > wirelessly
> > >> > > (LinkSys access point).
> > >> > >
> > >> > > LinkSys access point uses WPA-TKIP encryption.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Desktops can always see themselves and the other desktop on the
> > > network,
> > >> > but
> > >> > > usually can't see the laptops.
> > >> > > Laptops can usually see the desktops on the network, and
sometimes
> > > each
> > >> > > other and themselves (but not always).
> > >> > >
> > >> > > We seem to have somewhat better luck with this when the laptops
are
> > > using
> > >> > an
> > >> > > ethernet connection, but still problematic seeing the laptops.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I don't really know where to start to solve the problem of the
> > >> > disappearing
> > >> > > Windows XP laptops.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Any help would be appreciated.
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >