How to use the DSL wireless router as a modem only ?

Hello,
I had DSL installed, but the supplied DSL wireless router(1) leaves
much to be desired. What I would like to do is use a second router
and use the original device just for it's modem functionallity.

Internet
||
DSL modem router (1) (wireless disabled)
||
Wireless router (2)
||
pc1 and pc2(wireless)


To connect the router(1) to router(2) I defined a
DMZ IP n router(1) and set the WAN IP in router(2) to same.

Is there a better way?
I'm a network novice, so I may be missing
something obvious. What is the best way to connect them?

Any thoughts appreciated.
Dave

dave xnet wrote:

> Hello,
> I had DSL installed, but the supplied DSL wireless router(1) leaves
> much to be desired. What I would like to do is use a second router
> and use the original device just for it's modem functionallity.
>
> Internet
> ||
> DSL modem router (1) (wireless disabled)
> ||
> Wireless router (2)
> ||
> pc1 and pc2(wireless)
>
>
> To connect the router(1) to router(2) I defined a
> DMZ IP n router(1) and set the WAN IP in router(2) to same.
>
> Is there a better way?
> I'm a network novice, so I may be missing
> something obvious. What is the best way to connect them?
>
> Any thoughts appreciated.
> Dave


Dave;

My understanding is that you would have to place the supplied DSL router
into "Bridge" mode and you then would connect it to the WAL port on your
own router. This is very common. I recommend searching the documentation
about the particular supplied router for instruction on how to accomplish
this or search the manufacturers web site for same. If unsuccessful, post
back the make and model and someone here should be able to provide
instructions.

Hope this helps.

bobmct

On Sat, 03 Feb 2007 04:26:02 GMT, dave xnet
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Hello,
>I had DSL installed, but the supplied DSL wireless router(1) leaves
>much to be desired. What I would like to do is use a second router
>and use the original device just for it's modem functionallity.
>
>Internet
>||
>DSL modem router (1) (wireless disabled)
>||
>Wireless router (2)
>||
>pc1 and pc2(wireless)
>
>
>To connect the router(1) to router(2) I defined a
>DMZ IP n router(1) and set the WAN IP in router(2) to same.
>

That will work in most cases. Please identify what models you have of
the equipment.

Generally, the DSL router/modem box would have the router capabilities
turned off (if you don't like it's router). If you do like its router,
then probably the wireless router's router might be turned off (so you
avoid having two routers back to back...)

In my setup I have a ADSL modem (has not got a router built it, but
the companion model with the router does have the option to disable
the router) feeding a switch. One output from the switch feeds a
wireless router. ANother output from teh swtich feeds a wired
(Linksys/Cisco) router, whch in turn feeds a switch wich has the
server farm connected to it.

Note in this case, I use two Internet IP addresses: one for the
wireless router, and one for the wired router. This creates two
seperate networks, (and isolates my internal network from the
wireless).

On Sat, 03 Feb 2007 08:58:51 -0500, PeterD <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On Sat, 03 Feb 2007 04:26:02 GMT, dave xnet
><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>Hello,
>>I had DSL installed, but the supplied DSL wireless router(1) leaves
>>much to be desired. What I would like to do is use a second router
>>and use the original device just for it's modem functionallity.
>>
>>Internet
>>||
>>DSL modem router (1) (wireless disabled)
>>||
>>Wireless router (2)
>>||
>>pc1 and pc2(wireless)
>>
>>
>>To connect the router(1) to router(2) I defined a
>>DMZ IP n router(1) and set the WAN IP in router(2) to same.
>>
>
>That will work in most cases. Please identify what models you have of
>the equipment.
>
>Generally, the DSL router/modem box would have the router capabilities
>turned off (if you don't like it's router). If you do like its router,
>then probably the wireless router's router might be turned off (so you
>avoid having two routers back to back...)
>
>In my setup I have a ADSL modem (has not got a router built it, but
>the companion model with the router does have the option to disable
>the router) feeding a switch. One output from the switch feeds a
>wireless router. ANother output from teh swtich feeds a wired
>(Linksys/Cisco) router, whch in turn feeds a switch wich has the
>server farm connected to it.
>
>Note in this case, I use two Internet IP addresses: one for the
>wireless router, and one for the wired router. This creates two
>seperate networks, (and isolates my internal network from the
>wireless).
bobmct and Peterd,
Thanks for the info. The supplied dsl modem/router is an
Actiontec GT704-WG (retail firmware), while my own will be
a Linksys WRT54GL. (IT's on the way). When it arrives both pc's
will be attacthed to it. For now I've attached an old wired router
to test the process.

I've looked at the setup pages for the Actiontec; the only place I
see Transparent bridging mentioned is on the WAN setup page.
http://mysite.verizon.net/resvc18m/act1b.JPG

These are the advanced menu items:
http://mysite.verizon.net/resvc18m/adv1b.JPG


Thanks for helping.
Dave

dave xnet wrote:

> On Sat, 03 Feb 2007 08:58:51 -0500, PeterD <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 03 Feb 2007 04:26:02 GMT, dave xnet
>><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>>Hello,
>>>I had DSL installed, but the supplied DSL wireless router(1) leaves
>>>much to be desired. What I would like to do is use a second router
>>>and use the original device just for it's modem functionallity.
>>>
>>>Internet
>>>||
>>>DSL modem router (1) (wireless disabled)
>>>||
>>>Wireless router (2)
>>>||
>>>pc1 and pc2(wireless)
>>>
>>>
>>>To connect the router(1) to router(2) I defined a
>>>DMZ IP n router(1) and set the WAN IP in router(2) to same.
>>>
>>
>>That will work in most cases. Please identify what models you have of
>>the equipment.
>>
>>Generally, the DSL router/modem box would have the router capabilities
>>turned off (if you don't like it's router). If you do like its router,
>>then probably the wireless router's router might be turned off (so you
>>avoid having two routers back to back...)
>>
>>In my setup I have a ADSL modem (has not got a router built it, but
>>the companion model with the router does have the option to disable
>>the router) feeding a switch. One output from the switch feeds a
>>wireless router. ANother output from teh swtich feeds a wired
>>(Linksys/Cisco) router, whch in turn feeds a switch wich has the
>>server farm connected to it.
>>
>>Note in this case, I use two Internet IP addresses: one for the
>>wireless router, and one for the wired router. This creates two
>>seperate networks, (and isolates my internal network from the
>>wireless).
> bobmct and Peterd,
> Thanks for the info. The supplied dsl modem/router is an
> Actiontec GT704-WG (retail firmware), while my own will be
> a Linksys WRT54GL. (IT's on the way). When it arrives both pc's
> will be attacthed to it. For now I've attached an old wired router
> to test the process.
>
> I've looked at the setup pages for the Actiontec; the only place I
> see Transparent bridging mentioned is on the WAN setup page.
> http://mysite.verizon.net/resvc18m/act1b.JPG
>
> These are the advanced menu items:
> http://mysite.verizon.net/resvc18m/adv1b.JPG
>
>
> Thanks for helping.
> Dave

Dave;

The WAN side would be correct as you are instructing it to simply pass the
signal through from the ISP to your router. All the other services will be
provided by your new router (WAN PPPoE, DHCP Client to obtain an IP address
from the ISP, etc).

Simply "neutralize" everything else on the Actiontec and if it doesn't work
try logically enabling one at a time. If all else fails, take a look at
Actiontec's support site or actually call you ISP (not that you will get an
answer).

Good luck - it SHOULD work as described.

bobmct

On Sat, 03 Feb 2007 18:04:51 -0500, bobmct <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>dave xnet wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 03 Feb 2007 08:58:51 -0500, PeterD <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 03 Feb 2007 04:26:02 GMT, dave xnet
>>><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hello,
>>>>I had DSL installed, but the supplied DSL wireless router(1) leaves
>>>>much to be desired. What I would like to do is use a second router
>>>>and use the original device just for it's modem functionallity.
>>>>
>>>>Internet
>>>>||
>>>>DSL modem router (1) (wireless disabled)
>>>>||
>>>>Wireless router (2)
>>>>||
>>>>pc1 and pc2(wireless)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>To connect the router(1) to router(2) I defined a
>>>>DMZ IP n router(1) and set the WAN IP in router(2) to same.
>>>>
>>>
>>>That will work in most cases. Please identify what models you have of
>>>the equipment.
>>>
>>>Generally, the DSL router/modem box would have the router capabilities
>>>turned off (if you don't like it's router). If you do like its router,
>>>then probably the wireless router's router might be turned off (so you
>>>avoid having two routers back to back...)
>>>
>>>In my setup I have a ADSL modem (has not got a router built it, but
>>>the companion model with the router does have the option to disable
>>>the router) feeding a switch. One output from the switch feeds a
>>>wireless router. ANother output from teh swtich feeds a wired
>>>(Linksys/Cisco) router, whch in turn feeds a switch wich has the
>>>server farm connected to it.
>>>
>>>Note in this case, I use two Internet IP addresses: one for the
>>>wireless router, and one for the wired router. This creates two
>>>seperate networks, (and isolates my internal network from the
>>>wireless).
>> bobmct and Peterd,
>> Thanks for the info. The supplied dsl modem/router is an
>> Actiontec GT704-WG (retail firmware), while my own will be
>> a Linksys WRT54GL. (IT's on the way). When it arrives both pc's
>> will be attacthed to it. For now I've attached an old wired router
>> to test the process.
>>
>> I've looked at the setup pages for the Actiontec; the only place I
>> see Transparent bridging mentioned is on the WAN setup page.
>> http://mysite.verizon.net/resvc18m/act1b.JPG
>>
>> These are the advanced menu items:
>> http://mysite.verizon.net/resvc18m/adv1b.JPG
>>
>>
>> Thanks for helping.
>> Dave
>
>Dave;
>
>The WAN side would be correct as you are instructing it to simply pass the
>signal through from the ISP to your router.

> All the other services will be
>provided by your new router (WAN PPPoE, DHCP Client to obtain an IP address
>from the ISP, etc).
>
>Simply "neutralize" everything else on the Actiontec and if it doesn't work
>try logically enabling one at a time. If all else fails, take a look at
>Actiontec's support site or actually call you ISP (not that you will get an
>answer).
>
>Good luck - it SHOULD work as described.
>
>bobmct
Appreciate your help!
I'll wil try it. Unfortunately, the ISP's support is poor and so is
the
routers documentation. I did something before and I could no
longer access the config page at 192.168.0.1 - had to do
a config reset using the button at the back.
The actiontec has options to turn off NAT and the DHCP
server - perhaps it's one of these that caused the problem.

On the NAT on/off page it says that if you turn it off, you MUST
define a static route. That's getting into the area where my
knowledge (novice) is challenged.

On the otherhand if yu turn off the DHCP server,
what IP is used to connect to the next downstream device,
be it the 2nd router or a PC directly?

Dave

dave xnet wrote:

> On Sat, 03 Feb 2007 18:04:51 -0500, bobmct <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote:
>
>>dave xnet wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 03 Feb 2007 08:58:51 -0500, PeterD <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 03 Feb 2007 04:26:02 GMT, dave xnet
>>>><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Hello,
>>>>>I had DSL installed, but the supplied DSL wireless router(1) leaves
>>>>>much to be desired. What I would like to do is use a second router
>>>>>and use the original device just for it's modem functionallity.
>>>>>
>>>>>Internet
>>>>>||
>>>>>DSL modem router (1) (wireless disabled)
>>>>>||
>>>>>Wireless router (2)
>>>>>||
>>>>>pc1 and pc2(wireless)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>To connect the router(1) to router(2) I defined a
>>>>>DMZ IP n router(1) and set the WAN IP in router(2) to same.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>That will work in most cases. Please identify what models you have of
>>>>the equipment.
>>>>
>>>>Generally, the DSL router/modem box would have the router capabilities
>>>>turned off (if you don't like it's router). If you do like its router,
>>>>then probably the wireless router's router might be turned off (so you
>>>>avoid having two routers back to back...)
>>>>
>>>>In my setup I have a ADSL modem (has not got a router built it, but
>>>>the companion model with the router does have the option to disable
>>>>the router) feeding a switch. One output from the switch feeds a
>>>>wireless router. ANother output from teh swtich feeds a wired
>>>>(Linksys/Cisco) router, whch in turn feeds a switch wich has the
>>>>server farm connected to it.
>>>>
>>>>Note in this case, I use two Internet IP addresses: one for the
>>>>wireless router, and one for the wired router. This creates two
>>>>seperate networks, (and isolates my internal network from the
>>>>wireless).
>>> bobmct and Peterd,
>>> Thanks for the info. The supplied dsl modem/router is an
>>> Actiontec GT704-WG (retail firmware), while my own will be
>>> a Linksys WRT54GL. (IT's on the way). When it arrives both pc's
>>> will be attacthed to it. For now I've attached an old wired router
>>> to test the process.
>>>
>>> I've looked at the setup pages for the Actiontec; the only place I
>>> see Transparent bridging mentioned is on the WAN setup page.
>>> http://mysite.verizon.net/resvc18m/act1b.JPG
>>>
>>> These are the advanced menu items:
>>> http://mysite.verizon.net/resvc18m/adv1b.JPG
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for helping.
>>> Dave
>>
>>Dave;
>>
>>The WAN side would be correct as you are instructing it to simply pass the
>>signal through from the ISP to your router.
>
>> All the other services will be
>>provided by your new router (WAN PPPoE, DHCP Client to obtain an IP
>>address from the ISP, etc).
>>
>>Simply "neutralize" everything else on the Actiontec and if it doesn't
>>work
>>try logically enabling one at a time. If all else fails, take a look at
>>Actiontec's support site or actually call you ISP (not that you will get
>>an answer).
>>
>>Good luck - it SHOULD work as described.
>>
>>bobmct
> Appreciate your help!
> I'll wil try it. Unfortunately, the ISP's support is poor and so is
> the
> routers documentation. I did something before and I could no
> longer access the config page at 192.168.0.1 - had to do
> a config reset using the button at the back.
> The actiontec has options to turn off NAT and the DHCP
> server - perhaps it's one of these that caused the problem.
>
> On the NAT on/off page it says that if you turn it off, you MUST
> define a static route. That's getting into the area where my
> knowledge (novice) is challenged.
>
> On the otherhand if yu turn off the DHCP server,
> what IP is used to connect to the next downstream device,
> be it the 2nd router or a PC directly?
>
> Dave

Dave;

(My understanding/experience):

The modem (in true bridge mode) acts as nothing more than a protocol
converter (per se) between the ISP and your own router. As a result, your
own router should have the ability to make the connection with the ISP
(PPPoE), act as a DHCP client (to obtain its own WAN IP from the ISP, and
that about all for the WAN side.

Then, on the LAN side, your router would:

Provide NAT for your LAN using a one-to-many scheme (one WAN IP used by many
LAN IPs for Internet traffic), provide DHCP Server services for you LAN so
onnecting devices can request and be issued their own internal private LAN
IP address, act as the Gateway for all devices on your LAN.

Basically, this is about it.

Now, if the model cannot provide simple (True) bridge mode, then the router
should be able to work with some minor alterations.

Beyond that, seeing how you've already purchased the router, if all else
fails, you might want to check eBay for for something like a Speedstream
5260 DSL Ethernet Modem which are plentiful and will do this perfectly.

Hope this helps...

On Sun, 04 Feb 2007 06:55:17 -0500, bobmct <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:


>Dave;
>
>(My understanding/experience):
>
>The modem (in true bridge mode) acts as nothing more than a protocol
>converter (per se) between the ISP and your own router. As a result, your
>own router should have the ability to make the connection with the ISP
>(PPPoE), act as a DHCP client (to obtain its own WAN IP from the ISP, and
>that about all for the WAN side.
>
>Then, on the LAN side, your router would:
>
>Provide NAT for your LAN using a one-to-many scheme (one WAN IP used by many
>LAN IPs for Internet traffic), provide DHCP Server services for you LAN so
>onnecting devices can request and be issued their own internal private LAN
>IP address, act as the Gateway for all devices on your LAN.
>
>Basically, this is about it.
>
>Now, if the model cannot provide simple (True) bridge mode, then the router
>should be able to work with some minor alterations.
>
>Beyond that, seeing how you've already purchased the router, if all else
>fails, you might want to check eBay for for something like a Speedstream
>5260 DSL Ethernet Modem which are plentiful and will do this perfectly.
>
>Hope this helps...
I had a bit of a delay getting it to work. I think it was
because I had forgotten to release the WAN dhcp from the Actiontec.

I'm assuming after a few hours it timed out, be cause I did n't do
anything different, and now the secondary router can connect using
dhcp.

On interesing thing, the WAN address from the 2nd router is the true
external address - 71.xxx.xxx.xxx. Which creates an intersting
situation . How can I get in the modems config screen?
If I enter 192.168.1.1, I get the 2nd (netgear) router, 192.168.0.1
just hangs and if I enter 71.xxx.xxx.xxx it gives me a userid/password
box but nothing I enter is accepted. I don't even know if that is the
actiontec box, or whether it's something down the line.

I appreciate your help - at least I'm getting somewhere now.
Dave

dave xnet wrote:
>
> On interesing thing, the WAN address from the 2nd router is the true
> external address - 71.xxx.xxx.xxx. Which creates an intersting
> situation . How can I get in the modems config screen?
> If I enter 192.168.1.1, I get the 2nd (netgear) router, 192.168.0.1
> just hangs and if I enter 71.xxx.xxx.xxx it gives me a userid/password
> box but nothing I enter is accepted. I don't even know if that is the
> actiontec box, or whether it's something down the line.
>
> I appreciate your help - at least I'm getting somewhere now.
> Dave

At least it sounds like you're making forward progress and that's what its
all about!

One you place your modem (actiontec) into bridge mode its sort of "out of
the picture". There IS no network access to it. What I have done in the
past is to take the router out of the circuit and connect it to a laptop
with the laptop set to a static IP within the same subnet as the LAN side
of the modem. Then I'm able to access the modem config. When I have it
set to what I want I place it back into the circuit (WAN/Router).

If your new router is a Netgear I would bet that something on the screen
when you access it will identify itself as Netgear (just a guess).

Sorry about the pain to tweak the Actiontec, but that the way these roll
sometimes.

Good (further) luck.

Bob

On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 19:52:23 -0500, bobmct <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>dave xnet wrote:
>>
>> On interesing thing, the WAN address from the 2nd router is the true
>> external address - 71.xxx.xxx.xxx. Which creates an intersting
>> situation . How can I get in the modems config screen?
>> If I enter 192.168.1.1, I get the 2nd (netgear) router, 192.168.0.1
>> just hangs and if I enter 71.xxx.xxx.xxx it gives me a userid/password
>> box but nothing I enter is accepted. I don't even know if that is the
>> actiontec box, or whether it's something down the line.
>>
>> I appreciate your help - at least I'm getting somewhere now.
>> Dave
>
>At least it sounds like you're making forward progress and that's what its
>all about!
>
>One you place your modem (actiontec) into bridge mode its sort of "out of
>the picture". There IS no network access to it. What I have done in the
>past is to take the router out of the circuit and connect it to a laptop
>with the laptop set to a static IP within the same subnet as the LAN side
>of the modem. Then I'm able to access the modem config. When I have it
>set to what I want I place it back into the circuit (WAN/Router).
Very interesting I'll give this a go.
Normally, the actiontec in normal mode (not bridged)
uses 192.168.0.1, while the netgear rt314 (old, but a great machine)
uses 192.168.1.1.. for the config pages.

When I have both routers connected and I interrogate the Netgear
"status" it shows the WAN address as 71.xxx.xxx.xxx.
So far so good.
Are you saying that if I temporary set a static IP on one of
the pc's to 192.168.0.20 (for example) and connect to the
the Actiontec directly, this will work even if it's in
transparent bridge mode? I guess I never really understood how
statis IP's work. If the subnet mask is 255.255.255.0,
would any static address from 192.168.0.2 -
192.168.0.254 work?
>
>If your new router is a Netgear I would bet that something on the screen
>when you access it will identify itself as Netgear (just a guess).
>
>Sorry about the pain to tweak the Actiontec, but that the way these roll
>sometimes.
Well thank goodness, once it's in TB mode, there isn't too
much that I'll need to keep tweaking anyway. Tomorrow the
new Linksys router should arrive which will replace the old netgear.
Then I'll use that for wireless/wired.
One curiuosity - when the Actiontec is in TB mode,
the wireless light remains on, even though I couldn't
access it. But I was using a PC that is set to use DHCP to get
it's IP address. Would a static address here let me use the wireless?
What static address? See, I'm betrying my lack of understanding.
I always though a staic address had to be specifically defined on
both sides - a bit like when you set the DMZ ip -
>
>Good (further) luck.
Appreciate it. I've got a PDF on my system somewhere called TCP in 14
days . It's time I read it!
Dave
>
>Bob