USB or PC card with antenna, which is best?

Which would be best for pulling in a weak signal to my old Thinkpad?

....A PC card with and external antenna or a USB adapter with an external
antenna (if there is such a beast)?

Recommendations please!

Thank you.

-Dennis

--
Dennis Kessler
http://www.denniskessler.com/acupuncture

dk_ <(E-Mail Removed)> hath wroth:

>Which would be best for pulling in a weak signal to my old Thinkpad?
>
>...A PC card with and external antenna or a USB adapter with an external
>antenna (if there is such a beast)?

About the same. The performance is mostly determined by the external
antenna and not by the wireless device. This is reduced by the coax
cable attenuation, which is not used in a USB device. Therefore, if
the coax cable length is more than about 3-5ft, methinks the USB
radio, with an integral antenna, would be the better.

However, PC Card (PCMCIA) wireless devices are available in higher
power levels than USB. This may be an advantage in some situations.
For example, for a 300mw radio, see:
<http://ubnt.com/products_src.php4>

You might also consider a "wireless ethernet client bridg" where the
entire radio and ethernet interface are external and connect to the
computah via an ethernet cable. This is very useful where you have
extremely long cable runs between the laptop and the radio. See list
of possible candidates at:
<http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi#Wireless_Ethernet_Bridges>
Make sure that it has a client mode and not just a bridge to bridge
mode.

If your Thinkpad has an internal MiniPCI card, it's possible to kludge
an external antenna on the MiniPCI antenna connector(s). See:
<http://repair4laptop.org/wireless_lan_antennae.html>
for some hints and instructions.

There are USB adapters with external antenna connectors. See:
<http://www.fab-corp.com/product.php?productid=16186&cat=0&page=1>
Also see their antenna and pigtail selection.

>Recommendations please!

I recommend that you disclose something about your Thinkpad (like the
model number), whether it has a USB 2.0 port, and what manner of range
and performance you're expecting (which has a big effect on the
antenna selection).

Incidentally, I find it rather amusing that you're expecting us to
supply you with specific recommendations (i.e. maker and model
numbers) when you are apparently unable to do the same for your
Thinkpad.

--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
Jeff Liebermann <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> dk_ <(E-Mail Removed)> hath wroth:
>
> >Which would be best for pulling in a weak signal to my old Thinkpad?
> >
> >...A PC card with and external antenna or a USB adapter with an external
> >antenna (if there is such a beast)?
>
> About the same. The performance is mostly determined by the external
> antenna and not by the wireless device. This is reduced by the coax
> cable attenuation, which is not used in a USB device. Therefore, if
> the coax cable length is more than about 3-5ft, methinks the USB
> radio, with an integral antenna, would be the better.
>
> However, PC Card (PCMCIA) wireless devices are available in higher
> power levels than USB. This may be an advantage in some situations.
> For example, for a 300mw radio, see:
> <http://ubnt.com/products_src.php4>
>
> You might also consider a "wireless ethernet client bridg" where the
> entire radio and ethernet interface are external and connect to the
> computah via an ethernet cable. This is very useful where you have
> extremely long cable runs between the laptop and the radio. See list
> of possible candidates at:
> <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi#Wireless_Ethernet_Bridges>
> Make sure that it has a client mode and not just a bridge to bridge
> mode.
>
> If your Thinkpad has an internal MiniPCI card, it's possible to kludge
> an external antenna on the MiniPCI antenna connector(s). See:
> <http://repair4laptop.org/wireless_lan_antennae.html>
> for some hints and instructions.
>
> There are USB adapters with external antenna connectors. See:
> <http://www.fab-corp.com/product.php?productid=16186&cat=0&page=1>
> Also see their antenna and pigtail selection.
>
> >Recommendations please!
>
> I recommend that you disclose something about your Thinkpad (like the
> model number), whether it has a USB 2.0 port, and what manner of range
> and performance you're expecting (which has a big effect on the
> antenna selection).
>
> Incidentally, I find it rather amusing that you're expecting us to
> supply you with specific recommendations (i.e. maker and model
> numbers) when you are apparently unable to do the same for your
> Thinkpad.

Jeff,

Thank you very kindly for the wide range of information. There are a lot of
interesting products out there!

My Thinkpad is an old A20m, 500 MHz Celeron, (I will try to go to a PIII 800
in the future), 512 MB RAM, Windows XP SP2. It has a single USB 1.1 port and
a USB 2.0/Firewire PC Card, 15" LCD.

Regarding range and performance: where I go skiing in Big Bear there are a
couple of open access points at motels around where I stay and I get a
signal strength of 1 or 2 bars at best. I make a connection but don't get an
IP address. I need 3 or maybe 4 bars to be able to get an IP address. That
is my main goal.

Speed or bandwidth is not the main requirement at all. Because 'till now
I've had to use a very slow dial-up connection (33K), so any broadband
working connection would be great in the mountains.

I did see an AirLink 101 USB with a 10 db antenna at Fry's for $44.99,
(Model AWLL3055 802.11g USB Adapter). That price range is good for me. What
do you think? Suggestions? The 300mw PC card looked very cool but pricey for
this setup.

Still would appreciate recommendations.

Thanks.

-Dennis

--
Dennis Kessler
http://www.denniskessler.com/acupuncture

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 11:51:34 -0800, dk_ <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
<(E-Mail Removed)>:

[cross-posted to comp.sys.laptops.thinkpad]

>My Thinkpad is an old A20m, 500 MHz Celeron, (I will try to go to a PIII 800
>in the future), 512 MB RAM, Windows XP SP2. It has a single USB 1.1 port and
>a USB 2.0/Firewire PC Card, 15" LCD.
>
>Regarding range and performance: where I go skiing in Big Bear there are a
>couple of open access points at motels around where I stay and I get a
>signal strength of 1 or 2 bars at best. I make a connection but don't get an
>IP address. I need 3 or maybe 4 bars to be able to get an IP address. That
>is my main goal.
>
>Speed or bandwidth is not the main requirement at all. Because 'till now
>I've had to use a very slow dial-up connection (33K), so any broadband
>working connection would be great in the mountains.
>
>I did see an AirLink 101 USB with a 10 db antenna at Fry's for $44.99,
>(Model AWLL3055 802.11g USB Adapter). That price range is good for me. What
>do you think? Suggestions? The 300mw PC card looked very cool but pricey for
>this setup.

What matters is the antenna, not transmit power. 10 dBi will be a vast
improvement over the usual 0 dBi PC Card.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

>Jeff,
>
>Thank you very kindly for the wide range of information. There are a lot of
>interesting products out there!

Yes.... thanks Jeff!!

I'm looking for that info as well!!

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 11:51:34 -0800, dk_ <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
> Jeff Liebermann <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>> The performance is mostly determined by the external
>> antenna and not by the wireless device. This is reduced by the coax
>> cable attenuation, which is not used in a USB device. Therefore, if
>> the coax cable length is more than about 3-5ft, methinks the USB
>> radio, with an integral antenna, would be the better.

Like I said, it's not the wireless device that's important. It's the
the antenna, not the wireless card, that gives you the range.

>My Thinkpad is an old A20m, 500 MHz Celeron, (I will try to go to a PIII 800
>in the future), 512 MB RAM, Windows XP SP2. It has a single USB 1.1 port and
>a USB 2.0/Firewire PC Card, 15" LCD.

I've had some weird problems when trying to run a USB 2.0 wireless
device through a USB 2.0 PCMCIA card. It should work, there's no
reason there should be a problem, yet there it is. As I recall, when
I unplugged a Linksys WUSB54G USB thing, it would not recover when I
plugged it back in. I had the same thing happen with a Belkin USB and
a Netgear WG111, on the same machine. It was probably the USB PCMCIA
card that was causing the problem, but I didn't have a replacement.

Also, running wireless through a USB 1.1 interface is a bad idea. It
works, but you're limited in speed to about 4Mbits/sec thruput.

>Regarding range and performance: where I go skiing in Big Bear there are a
>couple of open access points at motels around where I stay and I get a
>signal strength of 1 or 2 bars at best. I make a connection but don't get an
>IP address. I need 3 or maybe 4 bars to be able to get an IP address. That
>is my main goal.

Well, first drag your laptop over as close as you can to make sure the
hotel system is accessible. If it's not your hotel, you might need a
password, encryption key, magic incantation, or permission to use it.

I also take it that you already have an existing wireless card.
WhatIsIt?

Incidentally, if this is Big Bear City in the San Bernardino Mtns, I
used to live and work in nearby Fawnskin. I really liked the area but
couldn't afford to stay.

>Speed or bandwidth is not the main requirement at all.

Ok, you want range. That means get a big antenna. How big
(physically) and antenna can you tolerate? If you're sneaking this
through a hotel room window, you might find a yagi antenna less
obnoxious than a big dish antenna, although the dish will have more
gain. Panels are a good compromise, but the larger ones don't fit
will in a window. Again, it's the antenna, not the radio that gives
you the range.

>Because 'till now
>I've had to use a very slow dial-up connection (33K), so any broadband
>working connection would be great in the mountains.

I see visions of you skiing into the hills, with a backpack containing
your IBM A20 laptop, and some kind of antenna. Tell me it isn't so.

>I did see an AirLink 101 USB with a 10 db antenna at Fry's for $44.99,
>(Model AWLL3055 802.11g USB Adapter). That price range is good for me. What
>do you think? Suggestions? The 300mw PC card looked very cool but pricey for
>this setup.

I don't have any experience with Airlink and I don't buy much at
Fry's. Sorry.

>Still would appreciate recommendations.

How much money do you want to spend total? That's for the wireless
device, interconnecting cables, adapters, and antenna. Also, is this
for portable use, or are you going to permanently mount the antenna
somewhere? If permanent, how far between the laptop and the proposed
antenna location. Again, it's the antenna, not the radio that gives
you the range.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558 (E-Mail Removed)
# http://802.11junk.com (E-Mail Removed)
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
John Navas <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 11:51:34 -0800, dk_ <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
> <(E-Mail Removed)>:
>
> [cross-posted to comp.sys.laptops.thinkpad]
>
> >My Thinkpad is an old A20m, 500 MHz Celeron, (I will try to go to a PIII 800
> >in the future), 512 MB RAM, Windows XP SP2. It has a single USB 1.1 port and
> >a USB 2.0/Firewire PC Card, 15" LCD.
> >
> >Regarding range and performance: where I go skiing in Big Bear there are a
> >couple of open access points at motels around where I stay and I get a
> >signal strength of 1 or 2 bars at best. I make a connection but don't get an
> >IP address. I need 3 or maybe 4 bars to be able to get an IP address. That
> >is my main goal.
> >
> >Speed or bandwidth is not the main requirement at all. Because 'till now
> >I've had to use a very slow dial-up connection (33K), so any broadband
> >working connection would be great in the mountains.
> >
> >I did see an AirLink 101 USB with a 10 db antenna at Fry's for $44.99,
> >(Model AWLL3055 802.11g USB Adapter). That price range is good for me. What
> >do you think? Suggestions? The 300mw PC card looked very cool but pricey for
> >this setup.
>
> What matters is the antenna, not transmit power. 10 dBi will be a vast
> improvement over the usual 0 dBi PC Card.


John,

Thank you.

-Dennis

--
Dennis Kessler
http://www.denniskessler.com/acupuncture

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
Jeff Liebermann <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 11:51:34 -0800, dk_ <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> >In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
> > Jeff Liebermann <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> >> The performance is mostly determined by the external
> >> antenna and not by the wireless device. This is reduced by the coax
> >> cable attenuation, which is not used in a USB device. Therefore, if
> >> the coax cable length is more than about 3-5ft, methinks the USB
> >> radio, with an integral antenna, would be the better.
>
> Like I said, it's not the wireless device that's important. It's the
> the antenna, not the wireless card, that gives you the range.
>
> >My Thinkpad is an old A20m, 500 MHz Celeron, (I will try to go to a PIII 800
> >in the future), 512 MB RAM, Windows XP SP2. It has a single USB 1.1 port and
> >a USB 2.0/Firewire PC Card, 15" LCD.
>
> I've had some weird problems when trying to run a USB 2.0 wireless
> device through a USB 2.0 PCMCIA card. It should work, there's no
> reason there should be a problem, yet there it is. As I recall, when
> I unplugged a Linksys WUSB54G USB thing, it would not recover when I
> plugged it back in. I had the same thing happen with a Belkin USB and
> a Netgear WG111, on the same machine. It was probably the USB PCMCIA
> card that was causing the problem, but I didn't have a replacement.
>
> Also, running wireless through a USB 1.1 interface is a bad idea. It
> works, but you're limited in speed to about 4Mbits/sec thruput.
>

I just finshed playing around with an Airlink 101 AWLL3028 USB thumlike
adapter and an Ailllink 101 AWLC4030 PC Cardbus adapter G. The speeds with
both adapters were much slower than my ethernet connection at home. The
access point is about 4 feet from the computer.

I was able to use the USB adapter in both my built-in USB 1.1 port and also
with the USB 2.0 PC card. I was able to insert the USB adapter and use it,
then remove it, and then do it again. Actually, the USB 2.0 PC card behaved
better than the built-in port, when first inserting the USB wireless adapter.



> >Regarding range and performance: where I go skiing in Big Bear there are a
> >couple of open access points at motels around where I stay and I get a
> >signal strength of 1 or 2 bars at best. I make a connection but don't get an
> >IP address. I need 3 or maybe 4 bars to be able to get an IP address. That
> >is my main goal.
>
> Well, first drag your laptop over as close as you can to make sure the
> hotel system is accessible. If it's not your hotel, you might need a
> password, encryption key, magic incantation, or permission to use it.
>

They appear to be unsecured access points. I was told that someone where I
stay was able to get connected. I don't know what hardware they had.


> I also take it that you already have an existing wireless card.
> WhatIsIt?

See above, the Airlink 101 802.11g AWLL3028.


> Incidentally, if this is Big Bear City in the San Bernardino Mtns, I
> used to live and work in nearby Fawnskin. I really liked the area but
> couldn't afford to stay.

Indeed! I stay just next to the Village, which is across the lake from
Fawnskin. It is beautiful the, especially when snow covered.


> >Speed or bandwidth is not the main requirement at all.
>
> Ok, you want range. That means get a big antenna. How big
> (physically) and antenna can you tolerate? If you're sneaking this
> through a hotel room window, you might find a yagi antenna less
> obnoxious than a big dish antenna, although the dish will have more
> gain. Panels are a good compromise, but the larger ones don't fit
> will in a window. Again, it's the antenna, not the radio that gives
> you the range.


C'mon, I just want something that will fit in my laptop case.

> >Because 'till now
> >I've had to use a very slow dial-up connection (33K), so any broadband
> >working connection would be great in the mountains.
>
> I see visions of you skiing into the hills, with a backpack containing
> your IBM A20 laptop, and some kind of antenna. Tell me it isn't so.


Not quite. The worst I'll do is carry my cell phone while skiing.

> >I did see an AirLink 101 USB with a 10 db antenna at Fry's for $44.99,
> >(Model AWLL3055 802.11g USB Adapter). That price range is good for me. What
> >do you think? Suggestions? The 300mw PC card looked very cool but pricey for
> >this setup.
>
> I don't have any experience with Airlink and I don't buy much at
> Fry's. Sorry.


Actually I went to the Arilink 101 site and it linked to Fry's.

> >Still would appreciate recommendations.
>
> How much money do you want to spend total? That's for the wireless
> device, interconnecting cables, adapters, and antenna. Also, is this
> for portable use, or are you going to permanently mount the antenna
> somewhere? If permanent, how far between the laptop and the proposed
> antenna location. Again, it's the antenna, not the radio that gives
> you the range.


Hey, it's an old machine that I'm playing with. I want to keep the cost low.
This is for traveling, nothing large or permenant. I'm guessing that the
distance is less than 300 ft. I'm usually on the second floor, and it's
possible that these access points are lower to the ground that where my
laptop is.

Thanks.

-Dennis

--
Dennis Kessler
http://www.denniskessler.com/acupuncture

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
John Navas <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 11:51:34 -0800, dk_ <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
> <(E-Mail Removed)>:
>
> [cross-posted to comp.sys.laptops.thinkpad]
>
> >My Thinkpad is an old A20m, 500 MHz Celeron, (I will try to go to a PIII 800
> >in the future), 512 MB RAM, Windows XP SP2. It has a single USB 1.1 port and
> >a USB 2.0/Firewire PC Card, 15" LCD.
> >
> >Regarding range and performance: where I go skiing in Big Bear there are a
> >couple of open access points at motels around where I stay and I get a
> >signal strength of 1 or 2 bars at best. I make a connection but don't get an
> >IP address. I need 3 or maybe 4 bars to be able to get an IP address. That
> >is my main goal.
> >
> >Speed or bandwidth is not the main requirement at all. Because 'till now
> >I've had to use a very slow dial-up connection (33K), so any broadband
> >working connection would be great in the mountains.
> >
> >I did see an AirLink 101 USB with a 10 db antenna at Fry's for $44.99,
> >(Model AWLL3055 802.11g USB Adapter). That price range is good for me. What
> >do you think? Suggestions? The 300mw PC card looked very cool but pricey for
> >this setup.
>
> What matters is the antenna, not transmit power. 10 dBi will be a vast
> improvement over the usual 0 dBi PC Card.

Tonight, I purchased the USB adapter with the 10 db antenna. I tried it and
it didn't seem to really pull in any stronger signal than a simple thumb
drive shaped USB adapter (with a high gain antenna). What's the deal???

-Dennis

--
Dennis Kessler
http://www.denniskessler.com/acupuncture

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 23:22:24 -0800, dk_ <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
<(E-Mail Removed)>:

>In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
> John Navas <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>> What matters is the antenna, not transmit power. 10 dBi will be a vast
>> improvement over the usual 0 dBi PC Card.
>
>Tonight, I purchased the USB adapter with the 10 db antenna. I tried it and
>it didn't seem to really pull in any stronger signal than a simple thumb
>drive shaped USB adapter (with a high gain antenna). What's the deal???

What's the gain of the "high-gain" antenna?
How are you measuring signal? Windows lies (actually the driver lies)
-- use NetStumbler, and give us some hard numbers.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>