UPNP Internet Gateway keeps dropping with Belkin WiFi Router

Hi all, I have:

WinXP Pro SP2
Belkin Wireless G Plus router (F5D7231-4 with latest firmware)
Internet Gateway and UPNP enabled in XP
UPNP enabled in my Router's admin page

However, at random intervals the Internet Gateway connection vanishes, the
icon disappears from Network Connections, and the connection icon goes from
the tasktray. Then many file transfers such as MSN slow down.

The only way to get it back is to go into my router's admin page...

UPNP Enabling:
ADVANCED FEATURE! Allows you to turn the UPNP feature of the Router on or
off. If you use applications that support UPnP, enabling UPnP will allow
these applications to automatically configure the router. More Info
- UPNP Enable / Disable

....and disable, then enable it. The icon then comes back and stays maybe
for a few hours, maybe a couple of days. Nothing specific seems to cause it
to disappear.

Any ideas?
--
Thanks.

CJSnet

(Remove TEETH to reply by e-mail.)

I have seen this before. It appears that something in MSN causes it,
possibly an addon of some kind. The only solution I could come up with was
to disable UPnP on the router permanently.

--
Kerry
MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User

CJSnet wrote:
> Hi all, I have:
>
> WinXP Pro SP2
> Belkin Wireless G Plus router (F5D7231-4 with latest firmware)
> Internet Gateway and UPNP enabled in XP
> UPNP enabled in my Router's admin page
>
> However, at random intervals the Internet Gateway connection
> vanishes, the icon disappears from Network Connections, and the
> connection icon goes from the tasktray. Then many file transfers
> such as MSN slow down.
> The only way to get it back is to go into my router's admin page...
>
> UPNP Enabling:
> ADVANCED FEATURE! Allows you to turn the UPNP feature of the Router
> on or off. If you use applications that support UPnP, enabling UPnP
> will allow these applications to automatically configure the router.
> More Info - UPNP Enable / Disable
>
> ...and disable, then enable it. The icon then comes back and stays
> maybe for a few hours, maybe a couple of days. Nothing specific
> seems to cause it to disappear.
>
> Any ideas?

Nooo -- don't say that!

Anyone else got any other experience or ideas on this?
--
Thanks.

CJSnet

(Remove TEETH to reply by e-mail.)


"Kerry Brown" <(E-Mail Removed)*a*m> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>I have seen this before. It appears that something in MSN causes it,
>possibly an addon of some kind. The only solution I could come up with was
>to disable UPnP on the router permanently.
>
> --
> Kerry
> MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User
>
> CJSnet wrote:
>> Hi all, I have:
>>
>> WinXP Pro SP2
>> Belkin Wireless G Plus router (F5D7231-4 with latest firmware)
>> Internet Gateway and UPNP enabled in XP
>> UPNP enabled in my Router's admin page
>>
>> However, at random intervals the Internet Gateway connection
>> vanishes, the icon disappears from Network Connections, and the
>> connection icon goes from the tasktray. Then many file transfers
>> such as MSN slow down.
>> The only way to get it back is to go into my router's admin page...
>>
>> UPNP Enabling:
>> ADVANCED FEATURE! Allows you to turn the UPNP feature of the Router
>> on or off. If you use applications that support UPnP, enabling UPnP
>> will allow these applications to automatically configure the router.
>> More Info - UPNP Enable / Disable
>>
>> ...and disable, then enable it. The icon then comes back and stays
>> maybe for a few hours, maybe a couple of days. Nothing specific
>> seems to cause it to disappear.
>>
>> Any ideas?
>
>

It's not that big a deal to manually configure the router to forward ports.
UPnP is really just a convenience.

--
Kerry
MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User

"CJSnet" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:ODu6%(E-Mail Removed)...
> Nooo -- don't say that!
>
> Anyone else got any other experience or ideas on this?
> --
> Thanks.
>
> CJSnet
>
> (Remove TEETH to reply by e-mail.)
>
>
> "Kerry Brown" <(E-Mail Removed)*a*m> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>I have seen this before. It appears that something in MSN causes it,
>>possibly an addon of some kind. The only solution I could come up with was
>>to disable UPnP on the router permanently.
>>
>> --
>> Kerry
>> MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User
>>
>> CJSnet wrote:
>>> Hi all, I have:
>>>
>>> WinXP Pro SP2
>>> Belkin Wireless G Plus router (F5D7231-4 with latest firmware)
>>> Internet Gateway and UPNP enabled in XP
>>> UPNP enabled in my Router's admin page
>>>
>>> However, at random intervals the Internet Gateway connection
>>> vanishes, the icon disappears from Network Connections, and the
>>> connection icon goes from the tasktray. Then many file transfers
>>> such as MSN slow down.
>>> The only way to get it back is to go into my router's admin page...
>>>
>>> UPNP Enabling:
>>> ADVANCED FEATURE! Allows you to turn the UPNP feature of the Router
>>> on or off. If you use applications that support UPnP, enabling UPnP
>>> will allow these applications to automatically configure the router.
>>> More Info - UPNP Enable / Disable
>>>
>>> ...and disable, then enable it. The icon then comes back and stays
>>> maybe for a few hours, maybe a couple of days. Nothing specific
>>> seems to cause it to disappear.
>>>
>>> Any ideas?
>>
>>
>
>

On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 18:55:05 -0700, "Kerry Brown"
<(E-Mail Removed)*a*m> wrote:

>"CJSnet" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news:ODu6%(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Nooo -- don't say that!
>>
>> Anyone else got any other experience or ideas on this?
>> --
>> Thanks.
>>
>> CJSnet
>>
>> (Remove TEETH to reply by e-mail.)
>>
>>
>> "Kerry Brown" <(E-Mail Removed)*a*m> wrote in message
>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>I have seen this before. It appears that something in MSN causes it,
>>>possibly an addon of some kind. The only solution I could come up with was
>>>to disable UPnP on the router permanently.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kerry
>>> MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User
>>>
>>> CJSnet wrote:
>>>> Hi all, I have:
>>>>
>>>> WinXP Pro SP2
>>>> Belkin Wireless G Plus router (F5D7231-4 with latest firmware)
>>>> Internet Gateway and UPNP enabled in XP
>>>> UPNP enabled in my Router's admin page
>>>>
>>>> However, at random intervals the Internet Gateway connection
>>>> vanishes, the icon disappears from Network Connections, and the
>>>> connection icon goes from the tasktray. Then many file transfers
>>>> such as MSN slow down.
>>>> The only way to get it back is to go into my router's admin page...
>>>>
>>>> UPNP Enabling:
>>>> ADVANCED FEATURE! Allows you to turn the UPNP feature of the Router
>>>> on or off. If you use applications that support UPnP, enabling UPnP
>>>> will allow these applications to automatically configure the router.
>>>> More Info - UPNP Enable / Disable
>>>>
>>>> ...and disable, then enable it. The icon then comes back and stays
>>>> maybe for a few hours, maybe a couple of days. Nothing specific
>>>> seems to cause it to disappear.
>>>>
>>>> Any ideas?

>It's not that big a deal to manually configure the router to forward ports.
>UPnP is really just a convenience.

Kerry,

That's according to opinion. If you run any program on multiple computers, that
runs as a server, and requires open incoming ports, for instance an Instant
Messenger, UPnP is essential. And if you use DHCP, and have server programs,
UPnP is essential.

The other advantage is that UPnP compliant programs close the ports when they're
not needed. So you don't end up with open ports going nowhere. Now an open
port going nowhere is NOT a security risk, contrary to what some folks say. But
it is untidy at best.
<http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2006/01/nat-routers-with-upnp-security-risk-or.html>
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2006/0...y-risk-or.html

--
Cheers,
Chuck, MS-MVP [Windows - Networking]
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck mvps org.

Chuck wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 18:55:05 -0700, "Kerry Brown"
> <(E-Mail Removed)*a*m> wrote:
>
>> "CJSnet" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:ODu6%(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> Nooo -- don't say that!
>>>
>>> Anyone else got any other experience or ideas on this?
>>> --
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> CJSnet
>>>
>>> (Remove TEETH to reply by e-mail.)
>>>
>>>
>>> "Kerry Brown" <(E-Mail Removed)*a*m> wrote in message
>>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>> I have seen this before. It appears that something in MSN causes
>>>> it, possibly an addon of some kind. The only solution I could come
>>>> up with was to disable UPnP on the router permanently.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Kerry
>>>> MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User
>>>>
>>>> CJSnet wrote:
>>>>> Hi all, I have:
>>>>>
>>>>> WinXP Pro SP2
>>>>> Belkin Wireless G Plus router (F5D7231-4 with latest firmware)
>>>>> Internet Gateway and UPNP enabled in XP
>>>>> UPNP enabled in my Router's admin page
>>>>>
>>>>> However, at random intervals the Internet Gateway connection
>>>>> vanishes, the icon disappears from Network Connections, and the
>>>>> connection icon goes from the tasktray. Then many file transfers
>>>>> such as MSN slow down.
>>>>> The only way to get it back is to go into my router's admin
>>>>> page...
>>>>>
>>>>> UPNP Enabling:
>>>>> ADVANCED FEATURE! Allows you to turn the UPNP feature of the
>>>>> Router on or off. If you use applications that support UPnP,
>>>>> enabling UPnP will allow these applications to automatically
>>>>> configure the router. More Info - UPNP Enable / Disable
>>>>>
>>>>> ...and disable, then enable it. The icon then comes back and
>>>>> stays maybe for a few hours, maybe a couple of days. Nothing
>>>>> specific seems to cause it to disappear.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any ideas?
>
>> It's not that big a deal to manually configure the router to forward
>> ports. UPnP is really just a convenience.
>
> Kerry,
>
> That's according to opinion. If you run any program on multiple
> computers, that runs as a server, and requires open incoming ports,
> for instance an Instant Messenger, UPnP is essential. And if you use
> DHCP, and have server programs, UPnP is essential.
>
> The other advantage is that UPnP compliant programs close the ports
> when they're not needed. So you don't end up with open ports going
> nowhere. Now an open port going nowhere is NOT a security risk,
> contrary to what some folks say. But it is untidy at best.
> <http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2006/01/nat-routers-with-upnp-security-risk-or.html>
> http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2006/0...y-risk-or.html

I do all that and more on my home network and have UPnP disabled. UPnP has
always freaked me out security wise as I'm never sure what programs are UPnP
enabled and what traffic they are allowing to pass through the router. It
certainly makes things easier and more convenient but so far I haven't found
anything that needs it to work. I do agree that the fact that it closes
ports when not being used is cool.

--
Kerry
MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User

On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 20:41:48 -0700, "Kerry Brown"
<(E-Mail Removed)*a*m> wrote:

>Chuck wrote:
>> On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 18:55:05 -0700, "Kerry Brown"
>> <(E-Mail Removed)*a*m> wrote:
>>
>>> "CJSnet" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>> news:ODu6%(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>> Nooo -- don't say that!
>>>>
>>>> Anyone else got any other experience or ideas on this?
>>>> --
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> CJSnet
>>>>
>>>> (Remove TEETH to reply by e-mail.)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Kerry Brown" <(E-Mail Removed)*a*m> wrote in message
>>>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>> I have seen this before. It appears that something in MSN causes
>>>>> it, possibly an addon of some kind. The only solution I could come
>>>>> up with was to disable UPnP on the router permanently.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Kerry
>>>>> MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User
>>>>>
>>>>> CJSnet wrote:
>>>>>> Hi all, I have:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> WinXP Pro SP2
>>>>>> Belkin Wireless G Plus router (F5D7231-4 with latest firmware)
>>>>>> Internet Gateway and UPNP enabled in XP
>>>>>> UPNP enabled in my Router's admin page
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However, at random intervals the Internet Gateway connection
>>>>>> vanishes, the icon disappears from Network Connections, and the
>>>>>> connection icon goes from the tasktray. Then many file transfers
>>>>>> such as MSN slow down.
>>>>>> The only way to get it back is to go into my router's admin
>>>>>> page...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> UPNP Enabling:
>>>>>> ADVANCED FEATURE! Allows you to turn the UPNP feature of the
>>>>>> Router on or off. If you use applications that support UPnP,
>>>>>> enabling UPnP will allow these applications to automatically
>>>>>> configure the router. More Info - UPNP Enable / Disable
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...and disable, then enable it. The icon then comes back and
>>>>>> stays maybe for a few hours, maybe a couple of days. Nothing
>>>>>> specific seems to cause it to disappear.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any ideas?
>>
>>> It's not that big a deal to manually configure the router to forward
>>> ports. UPnP is really just a convenience.
>>
>> Kerry,
>>
>> That's according to opinion. If you run any program on multiple
>> computers, that runs as a server, and requires open incoming ports,
>> for instance an Instant Messenger, UPnP is essential. And if you use
>> DHCP, and have server programs, UPnP is essential.
>>
>> The other advantage is that UPnP compliant programs close the ports
>> when they're not needed. So you don't end up with open ports going
>> nowhere. Now an open port going nowhere is NOT a security risk,
>> contrary to what some folks say. But it is untidy at best.
>> <http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2006/01/nat-routers-with-upnp-security-risk-or.html>
>> http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2006/0...y-risk-or.html
>
>I do all that and more on my home network and have UPnP disabled. UPnP has
>always freaked me out security wise as I'm never sure what programs are UPnP
>enabled and what traffic they are allowing to pass through the router. It
>certainly makes things easier and more convenient but so far I haven't found
>anything that needs it to work. I do agree that the fact that it closes
>ports when not being used is cool.

How do you forward ports, if your network uses DHCP? How do you allow the same
IM program to run on multiple computers? Can you do file transfer, audio, and
video?

If you worry about unknown UPnP programs allowing traffic to pass thru the
router, maybe you should worry more about what programs you have on your
computer, in general. Trustworthy programs can be trusted. Untrustworthy
programs will likely do more nasty things than just open ports without you
knowing.

If you depend upon outbound filtering (or worry about rogue UPnP programs) for
security, you have already lost the battle. By the time a rogue program gets
around to mucking with UPnP, who knows what else it's done? You must control
what runs on your computer.

--
Cheers,
Chuck, MS-MVP [Windows - Networking]
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck mvps org.

Chuck wrote:

<snipped>

>>>
>>> That's according to opinion. If you run any program on multiple
>>> computers, that runs as a server, and requires open incoming ports,
>>> for instance an Instant Messenger, UPnP is essential. And if you
>>> use DHCP, and have server programs, UPnP is essential.
>>>
>>> The other advantage is that UPnP compliant programs close the ports
>>> when they're not needed. So you don't end up with open ports going
>>> nowhere. Now an open port going nowhere is NOT a security risk,
>>> contrary to what some folks say. But it is untidy at best.
>>> <http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2006/01/nat-routers-with-upnp-security-risk-or.html>
>>> http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2006/0...y-risk-or.html
>>
>> I do all that and more on my home network and have UPnP disabled.
>> UPnP has always freaked me out security wise as I'm never sure what
>> programs are UPnP enabled and what traffic they are allowing to pass
>> through the router. It certainly makes things easier and more
>> convenient but so far I haven't found anything that needs it to
>> work. I do agree that the fact that it closes ports when not being
>> used is cool.
>
> How do you forward ports, if your network uses DHCP? How do you
> allow the same IM program to run on multiple computers? Can you do
> file transfer, audio, and video?
>
> If you worry about unknown UPnP programs allowing traffic to pass
> thru the router, maybe you should worry more about what programs you
> have on your computer, in general. Trustworthy programs can be
> trusted. Untrustworthy programs will likely do more nasty things
> than just open ports without you knowing.
>
> If you depend upon outbound filtering (or worry about rogue UPnP
> programs) for security, you have already lost the battle. By the time
> a rogue program gets around to mucking with UPnP, who knows what else
> it's done? You must control what runs on your computer.

I generally agree with you about knowing what's on your computer I know
what's on all of mine but I don't know what's on the others on the network.
It's a home network. Malware gets on computers. It is only a matter of time
before malware exploits UPnP. I do admit that UPnP makes things much easier
and I leave it enabled for most customer's home networks.

I have seen something very similar to the OP's problem a couple of times
where when using MSN Messenger the network keeps losing the connection for a
few seconds to a minute or two. Exiting MSN Messenger or disabling UPnP on
the router made the problem go away. What actually caused it I don't know.
It may have been a bug in the router's firmware. Both were D-Links. Both
were also using Messenger Plus.

--
Kerry
MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User

On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 00:40:52 +0100, "CJSnet" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>"Kerry Brown" <(E-Mail Removed)*a*m> wrote in message
>news:(E-Mail Removed)...

>> CJSnet wrote:
>>> Hi all, I have:
>>>
>>> WinXP Pro SP2
>>> Belkin Wireless G Plus router (F5D7231-4 with latest firmware)
>>> Internet Gateway and UPNP enabled in XP
>>> UPNP enabled in my Router's admin page
>>>
>>> However, at random intervals the Internet Gateway connection
>>> vanishes, the icon disappears from Network Connections, and the
>>> connection icon goes from the tasktray. Then many file transfers
>>> such as MSN slow down.
>>> The only way to get it back is to go into my router's admin page...
>>>
>>> UPNP Enabling:
>>> ADVANCED FEATURE! Allows you to turn the UPNP feature of the Router
>>> on or off. If you use applications that support UPnP, enabling UPnP
>>> will allow these applications to automatically configure the router.
>>> More Info - UPNP Enable / Disable
>>>
>>> ...and disable, then enable it. The icon then comes back and stays
>>> maybe for a few hours, maybe a couple of days. Nothing specific
>>> seems to cause it to disappear.
>>>
>>> Any ideas?

>>I have seen this before. It appears that something in MSN causes it,
>>possibly an addon of some kind. The only solution I could come up with was
>>to disable UPnP on the router permanently.
>>
>> --
>> Kerry
>> MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User
>>

>Nooo -- don't say that!
>
>Anyone else got any other experience or ideas on this?
>--
>Thanks.
>
>CJSnet
>
>(Remove TEETH to reply by e-mail.)

Try the DSLR Belkin forum.
<http://www.dslreports.com/forum/belkin>
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/belkin

--
Cheers,
Chuck, MS-MVP [Windows - Networking]
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck mvps org.

> I have seen something very similar to the OP's problem a couple of times
> where when using MSN Messenger the network keeps losing the connection for
> a few seconds to a minute or two. Exiting MSN Messenger or disabling UPnP
> on the router made the problem go away. What actually caused it I don't
> know. It may have been a bug in the router's firmware. Both were D-Links.
> Both were also using Messenger Plus.

I think I'd rather keep reactivating UPnP when it drops, than open the ports
and take on a security risk. I do use other programs that support UPnP like
Overnet, eDonkey, Skype, BitTorrent...

It does seem to tie in with MSN as I rarely use that, even though it is
always running. I also don't have MSN Messenger Plus, and have the latest
firmware for the router, which is also the latest model.
--
Thanks.

CJSnet

(Remove TEETH to reply by e-mail.)